7 ms·

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to

• croon 10y ago
  I assure you we have stupidity here too, it's a global trait. While this one makes sense, there's also a proposed "Chemicals tax" for 2017, taxing electronics (phones/tablets/games consoles/etc) per weight, regardless of contents. So what we waste the most (phones/tablets) will barely pay for anything, while TV's which can last 5-10 years will get more expensive.
  • titzer 10y ago
    Wouldn't the answer then be to apply the Chemical tax, divided by the expected lifetime of the device?
    • croon 10y ago
      Sure, that would be better, but it's still not really related to the amount of (environmentally detrimental) chemicals in the devices.
• berntb 10y ago
  You are just too far away. Swedish politics is as sick a joke as in Italy. - The school and high school results are in a state of implosion. No real political reaction. - Because of internal political manoeuvres, the immigration policies were done so it will cost multiple times of the defence spending the coming years -- and risk a Spanish style housing crash. - Putin acts more or less like Hitler in the mid 1930s. The defence is a joke, despite the politicians knowing this for a long time. - For political reasons, there has been almost no building of housing over the last 20 years. During the same time, the population has increased by at least 10-15% because of political decisions... - The trains are a joke because of bad upkeep. The problem seems to be that increased repairs won't make them work better until after the next election, so all governments spend the money in ways that buy votes better. - And so on.
  • aembleton 10y ago
    You could be describing the UK.
  • nickpsecurity 10y ago
    " Putin acts" Are you describing Russia or Sweden?
    • jogjayr 10y ago
      I think the poster was referring to Sweden not spending on military despite having a potentially hostile neighbor (or near-enough; not sure if Sweden shares a border with Russia)
      • ptaipale 10y ago
        They don't; Finland is in between as a buffer. Traditionally, Finland had stronger land forces and guerilla warfare capacity, Sweden had stronger navy and air force. That's pretty much gone now. Sweden is btw considering to bring back the draft (conscription), and now it would be both for men and women.
• legulere 10y ago
  There's also lots of things wrong in Scandinavia. There's segregation between the "native" population and the immigrants/their descendants. Suspects for crime, including children are put into isolation by default. Strict drug laws, strict alcohol laws that lead to binge drinking instead of a normal enjoyment of beer/wine. A strong sense that they're the best in the world which they often actively carry outwards. Still I really love it.
  • dalke 10y ago
    The binge drinking I've seen in Sweden is a shadow of the binge drinking I've seen in the UK, which has more lenient laws. Though I dread going to conference in England because their normal end-of-the-day social drinking is my binge drinking, so I'm perhaps not one to say. I believe that it's common in many if not most countries for its citizens to have a strong sense that they're the best in the world. Forbes has an article from 8 year ago titled "World's Most And Least Patriotic Countries" describing a NORC/U. Chicago study. NORC lists Sweden as one of the least patriotic countries. Given how much I knew Swedes love their country, and love flying their flag, either that study has methodological errors, or effectively all the citizens of a nation have a strong sense that their nation is the best in the world.
  • keeganjw 10y ago
    This reminds me of my time in Stockholm. I was there for a few months and saw quite a few homeless people. I don't remember a single one of them being a white "native" Swede. They all appeared to be immigrants. Swedes might brag about their good social welfare (and it's great if you can get it) but it doesn't seem to be applied evenly.
    • polack 10y ago
      Those are migrants, not immigrants. They are allowed to stay for 3 months without a job (but there is no checks on how long they stay) and they do get a lot of free healthcare and other "benefits" they don't have in their originating countries. Scandinavia cannot help everyone. There is rules and an order in who to help first, and unfortunately for the migrants they are not at the top.
• sheraz 10y ago
  I see why you and many others living outside of the region would think that. Sweden is very good at only extolling her perceived "virtues" and sweeping the rest under the rug. Waaaay under the rug. There is a real moral and intellectual superiority among many Swedes that I find deeply distasteful. From environment to politics to how to bag your groceries, and yes--even close a door properly, the "Swedish way" is always promoted as the only "right way."
  • dijit 10y ago
    Out of curiosity where do you live? Perhaps this is a regional thing but down here in Skane people are very humble about being Swedish, almost as if they are ashamed of some sort of history. They certainly wouldn't describe something as "the Swedish way" unless it was something about how the police are ineffective due to bureaucracy or something similar.
    • ardacinar 10y ago
      In general, Swedes are pretty self-depreciating people. But, down there, people might be just ashamed of being from Skåne :)
    • kalleboo 10y ago
      It seems a lot more complicated than either your view or the grandparents. If you watch Fredrik Lindströms "Världens Modernaste Land" it explores the question of the conflicting Swedish self-image pretty well (and the history of how it became what it is today), but I wouldn't know how to summarize it in a Hacker News comment.
  • mtbcoder 10y ago
    From my US perspective, I don't think anyone here believes that Sweden (or any other Scandinavian country for that matter) is some kind of wondrous utopia of social democracy without its own problems. What is going on is more of a growing sense of despair and frustration as we see other Western countries moving forward with social progress as we remain stuck in the 20th century, unable to figure out even the basics. Having a conversation regarding the "disposable culture" would not even be a blip on the radar in our political environment (mind you, this is an environment in which one of the main political parties has put forth a candidate who publicly stated that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese[1]). So, to see other countries discuss issues such as these is both literally and figuratively a foreign concept. [1] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/...
• jamesblonde 10y ago
  It's from the 1920s when the social democrats convinced the working person to ditch religion for a more 'rational' form of politics. Despite the other negative comments (nobody thinks their govt is doing good), politicans are held to account and policy is primarily driven by rational debate. For example, there was a strong rumour that a recent prime minister (Goran Persson) was religious. Being religious would obviously be a bad thing, as it might bias his policy - that is the consensus. And yes, it is a more consensus driven society. But without some level of consensus, how can you get your fellow citizens to help one another?
  • moogly 10y ago
    Not a rumour. When asked what profession he would have had he not gone into politics, he answered "priest".
    • jamesblonde 10y ago
      That's true. Just proves the point that it was controversial that somebody with religious tendencies has the lever of power. I should also add Swedish newspapers are somewhat more responsible/rational than Anglo Saxon newspapers (Expressen/Aftonbladet excluded, of course). DN, DI, Dagbladet are all pretty fair to the 'other side'.
      • sotojuan 10y ago
        In the US it's the exact opposite. Saying you're not religious is political suicide!
        • brianwawok 10y ago
          Well saying you are not some form of Christian. Both an atheist and a Muslim would have no chance of being elected. Jewish seems to be generally okay. Not sure on Buddhist or other eastern religions.
          • 10y ago
• JanneVee 10y ago
  The devil is in the details. For example the "chemical tax" is on the weight of the products, so when you buy consumer electronics you are supposed to be paying 120 kr/kg up to a maximum of 320 kr before VAT. This is blamed on environmnentally hazardous flame retardants on circuit boards. So the very design of this tax incentives less weighty electronic products, but I've learned that some electronic products longevity is correlated to its cooling, so you end up paying for the heat sink instead of the circuitboard. So it can even become a perverse incentive where you buy the cheapest possible product that might last a shorter compared to a heavier version that lasts longer.
  • belorn 10y ago
    The obvious question is then why they chose to tax the total weight and not the total amount of hazardous flame retardant (or what ever classification they want to categorize the environmentally hazardous chemicals"). Maybe the industry refuse on the ground of trade secrets, or maybe it would be too costly for the producer to produce the correct measurements, or maybe retailers has not enough pressure to get producers to follow such regulative requirements. Thus a imperfect solution with imperfect incentives, but which hopefully is calculated to do more good than harm in the cost-benefit analyses.
    • JanneVee 10y ago
      Yes but the imperfect incentives isn't punishing "consumption" of electronic devices. One clear example is the consumer version of a surround system with built in bluray. The day that the blu-ray drive gives up the consumer goes out buys a new one and throws out the old one. Now if we compare that to the enthusiast and buys a heavy receiver, separate speakers, and blu-ray player and is taxed individually on each component. What happens the day blu-ray gives up... he goes out and buys new blu-ray and keeps the old stuff. Same goes for the pc-gamer that builds his own PC. Buys individual components gets taxed on each, upgrades and replacements of components are taxed. But a regular consumer goes out and buys a flimsy laptop taxed less and throws away the laptop when it breaks.
  • walshemj 10y ago
    which Is the problem with things like mandating maximum power for vacuum cleaners you just get a lower power motor which is run at 100% duty instead of a higher power one run at a lower duty cycle - with the effect of reducing the design life of the device.
• Numberwang 10y ago
  Social Democracy/High Taxes Culturally protestant but atheist/indifferent Not big enough for perverse corruption.
• brbrodude 10y ago
  It's probably more in line with what a democracy is supposed to be and it doesn't lend itself to corruption so easily. The thing is, it's our societies and our conceptions of stuff that are wrong and that's why it seems weird. They are right(also "Europe" has been devastated by war, ignorance, plagues, injustice for much longer than our 'newbie' countries, they had to learn something eventually. The population in general is much better equiped with education and civility), us new-worlders, we think we don't need that and that we'll be just fine :)