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If Amazon pays a shipper to deliver product to its customers (or move them between warehouses) isn't it the shipper's responsibility to make sure they're shippe

by smoyer 10y ago

If Amazon pays a shipper to deliver product to its customers (or move them between warehouses) isn't it the shipper's responsibility to make sure they're shipped via an approved (legal) method? I guess Amazon would be responsible for disclosing the contents but this articles tells us almost nothing.

Anechoic 10y ago
IATA lithium-ion battery shipping rules make it pretty clear that packages containing Li-on batteries have to be clearly identified using warning labels. There are also limits to number of battery packs and Ah capacities in packages. If you've ordered anything with a Li-on battery in the last couple of years that was shipped by air, it should have had a warning label on it that looks like https://uline-h.assetsadobe.com/is/image/content/dam/images/S/S15000/S-14859.jpg?$Medium$&iccEmbed=1&icc=AdobeRGB https://uline-h.assetsadobe.com/is/image/content/dam/images/... That is the responsibility of the packer. edit: just noticed that the article mentioned lithium batteries rather than li-on batteries, but the rules are similar. See http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2016-en.pdf http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-bat... for more info.
- heartbreak 10y ago
  Why doesn't my iPhone 7 box have this sticker? It flew via UPS, does that make any difference? If I recall correctly a UPS flight crashed due to a battery fire a few years ago.
  - duskwuff 10y ago
    Only "raw" batteries are restricted. Once they're inside a finished electronic product, they're often fine. (Go figure.)
    - nickff 10y ago
      This is not quite right, but once a 'small' single cell is in a 'package', shipping it with other similar products is only subject to the 'overpack' rules.
      - snuxoll 10y ago
        Some companies still prefer to err on the side of caution, every single device I have ever ordered from T-Mobile has had the lithium sticker on the shipping box even though as far as I'm aware it's not required (especially in devices with non-removable batteries).
    - raverbashing 10y ago
      Because the risk of a mechanical accident damaging the battery is smaller. Also less similar batteries in close proximity to catch fire
    - amelius 10y ago
      So just put another box around the battery and call it a battery-powered box.
    - sspiff 10y ago
      Are you sure about this? Lenovo, Dell and Acer all put big LiIon warning/danger stickers on their laptop boxes when shipping. Are they doing this voluntarily? Some of the batteries are removable, but others aren't. Maybe it's related to the size/capacity of the batteries?
      - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
        IIRC there's a legal limit on the allowed capacity of a Li-ion battery in a device on an airplane, yes. That might be related.
    - dmd 10y ago
      This is why so many external USB battery packs for phones and the like have a flashlight built in - it's a legal loophole that lets the manufacturer pretend it's a flashlight, and not a "raw" battery.
      - mandlar 10y ago
        Interesting. Although I actually find it useful that they include the flashlight. Win/win.
  - loeg 10y ago
    Different restrictions between passenger and freight aircraft. The freight rules are looser.
  - nickff 10y ago
    You have to read the rules very carefully. Your iPhone counts as a single cell in a package; multiple iPhones are only ever shipped in an "overpack".
robryan 10y ago
I assume Amazon operates like most retailers in that they would be buying a certain type of shipping service. Often dangerous goods shipping is at a different rate. I would guess that most likely there were just products in their system that were missing a flag for dangerous goods.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  The article I read said the database of dangerous goods was not adequately maintained. I can't find it now. The BBC item has more detail though: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37454587 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37454587
  - robryan 10y ago
    Even more complicated is the Fulfilled By Amazon stuff they do for 3rd parties, where they can often be relying on the 3rd party to provide an accurate assessment for an item that they don't sell themselves.

by smoyer 10y ago

Anechoic 10y ago

IATA lithium-ion battery shipping rules make it pretty clear that packages containing Li-on batteries have to be clearly identified using warning labels. There are also limits to number of battery packs and Ah capacities in packages. If you've ordered anything with a Li-on battery in the last couple of years that was shipped by air, it should have had a warning label on it that looks like https://uline-h.assetsadobe.com/is/image/content/dam/images/S/S15000/S-14859.jpg?$Medium$&iccEmbed=1&icc=AdobeRGB https://uline-h.assetsadobe.com/is/image/content/dam/images/... That is the responsibility of the packer. edit: just noticed that the article mentioned lithium batteries rather than li-on batteries, but the rules are similar. See http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2016-en.pdf http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-bat... for more info.

heartbreak 10y ago
Why doesn't my iPhone 7 box have this sticker? It flew via UPS, does that make any difference? If I recall correctly a UPS flight crashed due to a battery fire a few years ago.
- duskwuff 10y ago
  Only "raw" batteries are restricted. Once they're inside a finished electronic product, they're often fine. (Go figure.)
  - nickff 10y ago
    This is not quite right, but once a 'small' single cell is in a 'package', shipping it with other similar products is only subject to the 'overpack' rules.
    - snuxoll 10y ago
      Some companies still prefer to err on the side of caution, every single device I have ever ordered from T-Mobile has had the lithium sticker on the shipping box even though as far as I'm aware it's not required (especially in devices with non-removable batteries).
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Because the risk of a mechanical accident damaging the battery is smaller. Also less similar batteries in close proximity to catch fire
  - amelius 10y ago
    So just put another box around the battery and call it a battery-powered box.
  - sspiff 10y ago
    Are you sure about this? Lenovo, Dell and Acer all put big LiIon warning/danger stickers on their laptop boxes when shipping. Are they doing this voluntarily? Some of the batteries are removable, but others aren't. Maybe it's related to the size/capacity of the batteries?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      IIRC there's a legal limit on the allowed capacity of a Li-ion battery in a device on an airplane, yes. That might be related.
  - dmd 10y ago
    This is why so many external USB battery packs for phones and the like have a flashlight built in - it's a legal loophole that lets the manufacturer pretend it's a flashlight, and not a "raw" battery.
    - mandlar 10y ago
      Interesting. Although I actually find it useful that they include the flashlight. Win/win.
- loeg 10y ago
  Different restrictions between passenger and freight aircraft. The freight rules are looser.
- nickff 10y ago
  You have to read the rules very carefully. Your iPhone counts as a single cell in a package; multiple iPhones are only ever shipped in an "overpack".

robryan 10y ago

I assume Amazon operates like most retailers in that they would be buying a certain type of shipping service. Often dangerous goods shipping is at a different rate. I would guess that most likely there were just products in their system that were missing a flag for dangerous goods.

Symbiote 10y ago
The article I read said the database of dangerous goods was not adequately maintained. I can't find it now. The BBC item has more detail though: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37454587 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37454587
- robryan 10y ago
  Even more complicated is the Fulfilled By Amazon stuff they do for 3rd parties, where they can often be relying on the 3rd party to provide an accurate assessment for an item that they don't sell themselves.