13 ms·

What I Learned from a Stroke at 26: Make Time to Untangle

248 points by allsystemsgo 10y ago

hourislate 10y ago
I gave way too much to more than one job when I was young. As I transitioned into my 30's I began to think very differently about work. It wasn't my #1 priority anymore. By the time I coasted into my 40's I was just looking for somewhere I could become a number and disappear. A good paying Corporate job or contracting.I like environments where a huge bureaucracy exists to slow things down. Ride it out to retirement. It's working out well for me. Don't have a lot of piss and vinegar left. Like to enjoy my family, my cars, travel, quiet times. I can piddle a whole day away just messing around in the garage and it feels so rewarding. I think it is the Spanish who have a saying....."It's nice to relax after a day of doing nothing".
- ams6110 10y ago
  This is what a lot of 25 year olds who say "I can't imagine ever not working, not learning new stuff" don't understand. Of course they can't imagine it. I couldn't either when I was 25. But when you're 50, you can really feel like there are better things to do than work your ass off for someone else's benefit or entertainment.
  - hobo_mark 10y ago
    There's a wide spectrum between GP's "doing the least I can get away with" and your "slaving for the man". This week I have to be on holiday, so I'll be working on a project I love and "learning new stuff", for nobody else's benefit or entertainment other than my own.
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      I think it varies by character. My stepfather only really stopped working when he suffered a pretty serious stroke. Prior to that, even when he wasn't employed, he was still working in his home lab, inventing stuff. (He's an electrical engineer, not a super villain or a crank - he wasn't inventing death rays or anti-gravity, but he holds a couple of patents on inventions that have made other people a few million dollars or so. Plus, during one of his "retirements", he worked on the gas chromatograph on the Phoenix lander.) On the other hand, I'm more likely to fall into Employee Number Whatsit situation - we have a seven month old kid, and there are definitely days when I wish I could just coast along with my red stapler until she turns 18 and moves out of the house, to say nothing of really putting in time to work on projects and hobbies at home.
    - nandemo 10y ago
      > I'll be working on a project I love and "learning new stuff", for nobody else's benefit or entertainment other than my own. Honestly, that might just be a less self-deprecating way of describing "I can piddle a whole day away just messing around in the garage and it feels so rewarding".
  - Lxr 10y ago
    I'm in my late 20s, I see my friends chasing high stress jobs working for other people's benefit and honestly don't understand it. Why would I want to be an investment banker working 60 hour weeks when I could build something at my own pace and enjoy it?
    - kajjffkk 10y ago
      Some investment bankers enjoy their 60 hour work weeks. Ideally at least.
      - yarou 10y ago
        They enjoy the part that comes after - intense binge drinking on a daily basis.
  - IndianAstronaut 10y ago
    I just realized this at 32. I was working 10 to 12 hours a day for the job. Ignoring friends, my health, hobbies, etc. It was fine for a bit since I was doing well at work. But I realized it meant nothing to the managers. I made one mistake and now all that hard work is ignored and the mistake is being dwelt on. I could have enjoyed myself the last few months and still have been in the same spot.
- germinalphrase 10y ago
  I teach high school. I love working with the kids, but then I look at my 50hrs+/wk (yes, really) and can't help but feel like pushing into business for the pay bump - or find a desk job for the same take home and have my evenings/weekends to myself. Always greener pastures elsewhere...
  - whoozhat 10y ago
    Well, you get 4 months off during the year (Christmas break + summer). Any other business jobs, you only get 1 month off at most.
    - germinalphrase 10y ago
      Breaks aren't quite as rich as that (nor are they free from work obligations) - but the point stands and is certainly part of the calculation.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- dasmoth 10y ago
  38 here, and while the way I think about work has changed somewhat, the "bureaucracy to slow things down" aspect remains, if anything, more soul-destroying. If I have to spend time at work, I really, really, don't want the feeling it's just a burned offering to the gods of process. Still time for this to change, but I'm starting to doubt it will.
f_allwein 10y ago
Good cautionary tale. There was also the case of a 21-year-old Bank of America Merrill Lynch intern who was found dead in a shower at his London flat after working for 72 hours in a row: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhardt-merrill-lynch-intern-dead-inquest https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erha... Don't let this be you.
verisimilidude 10y ago
I spent several years in my mid-twenties working like the author, pretty much non-stop. At the lowest point, I fell into a weird sleep pattern: I'd crash as soon as I got home around 6:00 in the evening, then wake up around midnight and be back at work by 1:00 am. It took an old friend's suicide to jolt me out of it. I saw a lot of my old buddies at the funeral and started reestablishing those friendships. We played a lot of video games. Xbox Live probably saved my life. The worst thing about overwork is that it becomes difficult to imagine yourself doing anything else when you're in the thick of it, like it doesn't even occur to you that you should be spending your time elsewhere; I wonder if any of you have experienced this. Thankfully, even something as inconsequential as Halo was enough to help me rearrange my priorities.
- throwaway28935 10y ago
  For me it was the opposite. The whole time I was overworking I was aware and wishing I wasn't and very much imagining myself doing other things. Now I'm aware and wishing I was back to normal and working. I spent about 4 years working flat out. If I was awake I was working, trying to keep the income coming after the recession hit. Then something snapped. The now ex-wife had to unwind the things I was part way through. Since then I can't do anything productive. I spend all the time wasting time with tv, games and online. Or often literally just nothing. If I try and do something productive like finding work again, or even simple like tidying the house I seize up with a mental resistance I find hard to describe. The more effort and willpower, the more the resistance increases. Even if I get started I've dropped out to go back to doing nothing within 10 minutes. Most days start with a resolution and to do list, but end with another day wasted. It's wrecked my career, relationship and social life. I've been to a few doctors, but I've never gotten anything even a bit helpful.
  - throwaway3490 10y ago
    I've been where you are now. You need to graduate from hacker news to the redpill subreddit my friend I recommend spending your time on your new interests, instead of trying to force yourself to do what "you should be doing". Spirituality and getting unstuck by wasting 6 months building a fun project for my favorite game helped me out of it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
randomacct44 10y ago
What the? "When I was discharged from the hospital late the next day, the cabdriver asked me, “Where do I take you?” I couldn’t remember the name of my street. I handed him the discharge paperwork with my address on it, arrived home and slept for a long while." How does someone who just had a stroke get discharged from hospital the next day, to a taxi?
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Not having the life insurance to cover a long term stay?
  - justinlardinois 10y ago
    I think you're confusing life and medical insurance.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Yes indeed. Dunno why i typed that.
- nkozyra 10y ago
  Exactly my thoughts. I've heard of a week or less stay discharged to family, but not throwing someone in a cab the _day after a stroke_.
- callmeal 10y ago
  Welcome to America.
  - mhurron 10y ago
    So many people need to have something like this personally slap them in the face before they realize how bad the healthcare system is in the US. Maybe some can learn from this instead.
    - 10y ago
princetontiger 10y ago
This article is crazy.
tluyben2 10y ago
Same experience in the early 2000s at 28; worked like a maniac in a fast growing company (co founded by myself); we had huge clients and made bucket loads of money (Deloitte fast 50 for years) but we were understaffed as our hiring did not keep up with the growth: I worked 7 days, 8 to 10 and usually more after getting home. I came in one monday went to the toilet when suddenly my arm fell down next to me, I stumbled, remember a crackling sound in my head and not much more after that until many hours later in the hospital. Unlike OP, I had to spend 1 week (esp the first 24 hours as they are crucial) for observation and tests in a special stroke ward. They could not find any cause. I know there is not much proof for the stress having to do much with stroke or high bloodpressure but I am sure that was the cause anyway. I remember that choking feeling of thats stress and pressure. I packed up and moved to Spain with my wife; started working sane hours from home. To be clear: number of working hours have not much to do with stress levels: I sometimes still work long hours but since I never felt anything like that kind of pressure I had then. And I never will; it was silly and unproductive but as my first big company and successful startup (which gave me financial freedom early on), I did not have many history to fall back on and the advice around me was of a 'do not stress so much' kind of unhelpful level. It took me years to get over the anxiety of getting another stroke and my speech is still not what it was before; I cannot pronounce some English words correctly even though I know how to and used to be able to. But it does not impair my life or work: people seem to like that Dutch English accent while my previous English was more perfect.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Could you clarify - did you have a stroke? Your post says you were observed and no cause was found. Do you mean that no cause for the stroke was found? Or no cause for the symptoms?
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    No cause for the stroke. The symptoms were clearly from a stroke (a black spot on the mri if i remember correctly). A 'youngstroke' for which they had a special team in the hospital.
cesarbs 10y ago
I'm 28 and have severe hypochondria, so this article was a terrifying read. Having a stroke is my #1 fear. But reading it makes me feel good about having shifted my attitude to work after I got married. I don't think I'll ever be the workaholic that I was in my early 20s, because my priorities have shifted so much after getting married and I've become especially frightened of the idea of stressing myself out to the point of suffering something like a stroke. The last thing I want in my life is to burden my wife with having to take care of a disabled me. In fact, I don't think it's only work that can lead to bad health issues caused by stress. I have my whole routine designed to have a low stress life. I avoid bringing in anything into my life that might be a major source of stress. I keep everything as simple as possible. On the symptoms side of things though, I now have to go to the doctor. Again. Reading about the buzzing in the right eye and the tingling was terrifying because I've been feeling something similar for the past few months. So onto my 4th brain scan in the past few years... Sigh. Hypochondria is a bitch.
- daeken 10y ago
  > On the symptoms side of things though, I now have to go to the doctor. Again. Reading about the buzzing in the right eye and the tingling was terrifying because I've been feeling something similar for the past few months. So onto my 4th brain scan in the past few years... Sigh. Hypochondria is a bitch. I really hope you find a way to handle this that doesn't involve very expensive reassurance from doctors. I experience something very similar when I read about heart conditions; I go into a spiral of anxiety where I believe my heart is failing, even though countless doctors have assured me that I'm perfectly fine there. Isn't the human brain just a ton of fun?
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    The trick is to accept that we're animals, and that meta-cognition is only a part of the game we're playing. We have to figure out ways to deal with the less expressive and more primitive parts of ourselves that don't respond as well to that "internal voice". Sometimes you just have to count primes and take deep breaths, even if it feels silly.
sotojuan 10y ago
Many people in this thread lamenting overworking in their youth. Maybe I've been lucky but at 22 I'm very happy with my decent 9-5 type employments. I've never felt the ambition necessary to sacrifice my free time for work—I'm satisfied with what I have.
- kajjffkk 10y ago
  Many people seem to work solely to earn income. I feel like this is a common work arrangement. Others work to make income and intellectually and emotionally satisfy themselves. Perhaps you're in this camp? If so, I'm with you on that one. Granted at some point of income, a certain amount of income without personal fulfillment is preferable to me due to the delayed gratification possibilities.
WhitneyLand 10y ago
Related info: Compared to people with the lowest psychological scores, those with highest scores were: 86 percent more likely to have a stroke or TIA for high depressive symptoms. 59 percent more likely to have a stroke or TIA for the highest chronic stress scores. More than twice as likely to have a stroke or TIA for the highest hostility scores. http://newsroom.heart.org/news/high-stress-hostility-depression-linked-with-increased-stroke-risk http://newsroom.heart.org/news/high-stress-hostility-depress...
- austinjp 10y ago
  Yep, although: "One thing we didn’t assess is coping strategies...it’s possible that positive coping strategies could ameliorate some of these associations or effects... We did not inquire about coping. I would say that’s one of the tasks for future studies."
Animats 10y ago
"Being so young, I had not even considered that having a stroke was a possibility. But I have since learned that they are on the rise among younger people." Uh oh. Does anybody keep stats for YC companies?
- Animats 10y ago
  A stroke related to overwork may be eligible for workmens' compensation.[1] Call a lawyer. Lots of lawyers take such cases on contingency; the victim doesn't pay anything unless they win. [1] http://www.rehmlaw.com/Workers-Compensation/Workers-Compensation-FAQ.shtml#3 http://www.rehmlaw.com/Workers-Compensation/Workers-Compensa...
  - reitoei 10y ago
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
dsfyu404ed 10y ago
Humans don't last long at a 100% duty cycle. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Congratulations on being able to leverage your foolishness to drive traffic to your blog.
- kajjffkk 10y ago
  >Humans don't last long at a 100% duty cycle. I dont disagree, but do you have a source on that?
  - adrianN 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi
- copperx 10y ago
  You haven't met my famous Russian professor who works 7 days of the week and seems pretty happy with his life.
- rjtobin 10y ago
  Kind of shocking lack of empathy in that last sentence. Don't get me wrong, I hate the "you shouldn't say anything offensive" brigade, but equally, no reason to be so caustic. Overwork is a big part of tech culture sadly, posts like these are helpful, even if they are only reminders of things we already know.
  - justinlardinois 10y ago
    Right? I don't understand how someone can read an article like this and have that reaction. An anecdote drives the point home a lot more than common sense. Also, what's this about driving blog traffic? He didn't work himself into the ground with the intention of writing a blog post about it.
  - legacynl 10y ago
    "I would easily clock 70 hours of work a week — more if we were on a deadline. I was often the first in the office and the last to leave." - quoted from article. This doesn't sound healthy to me. I wonder if anyone can really argue with that. That's 10 hours per day at least! Adding 8 hours of sleep, only gives him 6 hours to do EVERYTHING else in his life. That's friends, family, leisure, excersise, but also groceries, commuting, cooking, cleaning, walking his dog. It might be a big part of tech culture, but just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean this guy should. I would hestitate to call this guy stupid, but let's call it naive then.
jdimov10 10y ago
Don't make time to untangle. Stay untangled. Live your life. Enjoy it. Have fun. If you have any time left after that, then may be do some of that inconsequential stuff like earning money or achievements. These are nice, if you enjoy doing them, but are not important. Unlike what you've been brainwashed to believe, your life does not depend on those things. Your well-being does not depend on those things. The well-being of your family and children does not depend on those things. It's the other way around.
- fiatjaf 10y ago
  Have you actually passed two days without any money in your pocket?
  - jdimov10 10y ago
    Yes, I have passed many more than two days without any money in my pocket. As any human being, I've had my highs and lows. I've decided that I like the highs better and money is quite handy in that regard. What I'm saying is - it tends to come to you easier once you stop freaking out about it. As do all things. Struggle is always counterproductive and it is never worth sacrificing your health for money.
    - fiatjaf 10y ago
      Right, thank you very much for your answer. You are probably right.
infodroid 10y ago
It's sad that the author effectively blames himself for overworking and the resulting stroke. It might be the more socially-acceptable explanation, but there is more to it than that. He wouldn't be clocking 70 hours a week and bearing "self-imposed tortures", while ignoring the symptoms of exhaustion, unless his peers and the wider society rewarded it, as part of a self-destructive feedback loop. And we are all complicit in it, since we keep praising people who successfully "hustled ... up the chain of command", "managed to survive layoffs", and are now "leading development and marketing for a team" after only a few months. Overworking is nothing to celebrate and it shouldn't be a role model for anyone. We shouldn't reward this behavior when we encounter it.
coldtea 10y ago
>My doctor did not directly link my stroke to overwork, but said it could have been aggravated by stress, overexertion and exhaustion. Could he put it any more directly?
gerbilly 10y ago
I've been thinking about this lately and I've concluded that a big driver of overwork is the misguided quest for fulfillment. Not really fulfillment like we normally call it, I'd say more like acceptance. Perhaps many of us are seeking love and acceptance from bosses and coworkers, and overworking ourselves to obtain it. I believe that building your identity on anything that isn't yours is stressful. Building your ego on your job performance or on the positive feedback you get from coworkers isn't healthy. It's like emotional sharecropping. You are building your ego on someone else's land. People need to remember that work is the place where they have "human resource" departments, where they will make cut and dried decisions on who to retain and who to lay off the moment they want to adjust a budget.
- infodroid 10y ago
  > many of us are seeking love and acceptance I would go further than that, because I don't think this gets to the heart of the matter. The main driver of overwork is the promise of higher status that certain cultures bestow on those who pursue it [1]. The respect of bosses and the admiration of coworkers are just the consequences. As are the material benefits, like the increased salary and all the things it might buy. Yet advising overworkers to stop looking to others for positive feedback is not going to work for everyone. A large proportion of people identify as extroverts, people who need validation from others in order to feel good about themselves. And it's unrealistic to expect extroverts to be happy with valuing their self-worth the way introverts do. [1] Alain de Botton has a great book on this topic entitled Status Anxiety: http://alaindebotton.com/status/ http://alaindebotton.com/status/
- RankingMember 10y ago
  > It's like emotional sharecropping. You are building your ego on someone else's land. Nicely put.
- SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
  > People need to remember that work is the place where they have "human resource" departments, where they will make cut and dried decisions on who to retain and who to lay off the moment they want to adjust a budget. Or looked at from another angle, this is one of the very reasons people want to be seen to be "going the extra mile" compared to their colleagues (not that I'm disagreeing - the point about seeking acceptance is a very important one).
agumonkey 10y ago
I had an accident that led to cardiovascular / brain issues that reminded me of this, although less critical at first, but lingering. Since I do not need to be hospitalized, I could reflect on it, and it was like knowing how it felt to be handicaped, suffering debilitating diseases or even what old age could feel. It sheds a strong light on the life of others and yours, how fragile health can be. That said it's also sad how impossible it is to know this beforehand (if you're between child and old, many doctors will just handwave over some symptoms).
BigJeffeRonaldo 10y ago
It's not complicated to understand. If you work hard, you need rest. Your body, if you don't derange her with stimulant drinks and cocaine, she will tell you, "I need to rest!" So just listen! It's not that hard. Just listen to your grandma instead of being a techno nerd who drinks red bull until he is deranged with permanently lowered IQ from sleep deprivation and a weird disease. If you work hard, you need a rest.

248 points by allsystemsgo 10y ago

I gave way too much to more than one job when I was young. As I transitioned into my 30's I began to think very differently about work. It wasn't my #1 priority anymore. By the time I coasted into my 40's I was just looking for somewhere I could become a number and disappear. A good paying Corporate job or contracting.I like environments where a huge bureaucracy exists to slow things down. Ride it out to retirement. It's working out well for me. Don't have a lot of piss and vinegar left. Like to enjoy my family, my cars, travel, quiet times. I can piddle a whole day away just messing around in the garage and it feels so rewarding. I think it is the Spanish who have a saying....."It's nice to relax after a day of doing nothing".

ams6110 10y ago
This is what a lot of 25 year olds who say "I can't imagine ever not working, not learning new stuff" don't understand. Of course they can't imagine it. I couldn't either when I was 25. But when you're 50, you can really feel like there are better things to do than work your ass off for someone else's benefit or entertainment.
- hobo_mark 10y ago
  There's a wide spectrum between GP's "doing the least I can get away with" and your "slaving for the man". This week I have to be on holiday, so I'll be working on a project I love and "learning new stuff", for nobody else's benefit or entertainment other than my own.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    I think it varies by character. My stepfather only really stopped working when he suffered a pretty serious stroke. Prior to that, even when he wasn't employed, he was still working in his home lab, inventing stuff. (He's an electrical engineer, not a super villain or a crank - he wasn't inventing death rays or anti-gravity, but he holds a couple of patents on inventions that have made other people a few million dollars or so. Plus, during one of his "retirements", he worked on the gas chromatograph on the Phoenix lander.) On the other hand, I'm more likely to fall into Employee Number Whatsit situation - we have a seven month old kid, and there are definitely days when I wish I could just coast along with my red stapler until she turns 18 and moves out of the house, to say nothing of really putting in time to work on projects and hobbies at home.
  - nandemo 10y ago
    > I'll be working on a project I love and "learning new stuff", for nobody else's benefit or entertainment other than my own. Honestly, that might just be a less self-deprecating way of describing "I can piddle a whole day away just messing around in the garage and it feels so rewarding".
- Lxr 10y ago
  I'm in my late 20s, I see my friends chasing high stress jobs working for other people's benefit and honestly don't understand it. Why would I want to be an investment banker working 60 hour weeks when I could build something at my own pace and enjoy it?
  - kajjffkk 10y ago
    Some investment bankers enjoy their 60 hour work weeks. Ideally at least.
    - yarou 10y ago
      They enjoy the part that comes after - intense binge drinking on a daily basis.
- IndianAstronaut 10y ago
  I just realized this at 32. I was working 10 to 12 hours a day for the job. Ignoring friends, my health, hobbies, etc. It was fine for a bit since I was doing well at work. But I realized it meant nothing to the managers. I made one mistake and now all that hard work is ignored and the mistake is being dwelt on. I could have enjoyed myself the last few months and still have been in the same spot.
germinalphrase 10y ago
I teach high school. I love working with the kids, but then I look at my 50hrs+/wk (yes, really) and can't help but feel like pushing into business for the pay bump - or find a desk job for the same take home and have my evenings/weekends to myself. Always greener pastures elsewhere...
- whoozhat 10y ago
  Well, you get 4 months off during the year (Christmas break + summer). Any other business jobs, you only get 1 month off at most.
  - germinalphrase 10y ago
    Breaks aren't quite as rich as that (nor are they free from work obligations) - but the point stands and is certainly part of the calculation.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
dasmoth 10y ago
38 here, and while the way I think about work has changed somewhat, the "bureaucracy to slow things down" aspect remains, if anything, more soul-destroying. If I have to spend time at work, I really, really, don't want the feeling it's just a burned offering to the gods of process. Still time for this to change, but I'm starting to doubt it will.

f_allwein 10y ago

Good cautionary tale. There was also the case of a 21-year-old Bank of America Merrill Lynch intern who was found dead in a shower at his London flat after working for 72 hours in a row: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhardt-merrill-lynch-intern-dead-inquest https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erha... Don't let this be you.

verisimilidude 10y ago

I spent several years in my mid-twenties working like the author, pretty much non-stop. At the lowest point, I fell into a weird sleep pattern: I'd crash as soon as I got home around 6:00 in the evening, then wake up around midnight and be back at work by 1:00 am. It took an old friend's suicide to jolt me out of it. I saw a lot of my old buddies at the funeral and started reestablishing those friendships. We played a lot of video games. Xbox Live probably saved my life. The worst thing about overwork is that it becomes difficult to imagine yourself doing anything else when you're in the thick of it, like it doesn't even occur to you that you should be spending your time elsewhere; I wonder if any of you have experienced this. Thankfully, even something as inconsequential as Halo was enough to help me rearrange my priorities.

throwaway28935 10y ago
For me it was the opposite. The whole time I was overworking I was aware and wishing I wasn't and very much imagining myself doing other things. Now I'm aware and wishing I was back to normal and working. I spent about 4 years working flat out. If I was awake I was working, trying to keep the income coming after the recession hit. Then something snapped. The now ex-wife had to unwind the things I was part way through. Since then I can't do anything productive. I spend all the time wasting time with tv, games and online. Or often literally just nothing. If I try and do something productive like finding work again, or even simple like tidying the house I seize up with a mental resistance I find hard to describe. The more effort and willpower, the more the resistance increases. Even if I get started I've dropped out to go back to doing nothing within 10 minutes. Most days start with a resolution and to do list, but end with another day wasted. It's wrecked my career, relationship and social life. I've been to a few doctors, but I've never gotten anything even a bit helpful.
- throwaway3490 10y ago
  I've been where you are now. You need to graduate from hacker news to the redpill subreddit my friend I recommend spending your time on your new interests, instead of trying to force yourself to do what "you should be doing". Spirituality and getting unstuck by wasting 6 months building a fun project for my favorite game helped me out of it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

randomacct44 10y ago

What the? "When I was discharged from the hospital late the next day, the cabdriver asked me, “Where do I take you?” I couldn’t remember the name of my street. I handed him the discharge paperwork with my address on it, arrived home and slept for a long while." How does someone who just had a stroke get discharged from hospital the next day, to a taxi?

digi_owl 10y ago
Not having the life insurance to cover a long term stay?
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  I think you're confusing life and medical insurance.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Yes indeed. Dunno why i typed that.
nkozyra 10y ago
Exactly my thoughts. I've heard of a week or less stay discharged to family, but not throwing someone in a cab the _day after a stroke_.
callmeal 10y ago
Welcome to America.
- mhurron 10y ago
  So many people need to have something like this personally slap them in the face before they realize how bad the healthcare system is in the US. Maybe some can learn from this instead.
  - 10y ago

princetontiger 10y ago

This article is crazy.

tluyben2 10y ago

Same experience in the early 2000s at 28; worked like a maniac in a fast growing company (co founded by myself); we had huge clients and made bucket loads of money (Deloitte fast 50 for years) but we were understaffed as our hiring did not keep up with the growth: I worked 7 days, 8 to 10 and usually more after getting home. I came in one monday went to the toilet when suddenly my arm fell down next to me, I stumbled, remember a crackling sound in my head and not much more after that until many hours later in the hospital. Unlike OP, I had to spend 1 week (esp the first 24 hours as they are crucial) for observation and tests in a special stroke ward. They could not find any cause. I know there is not much proof for the stress having to do much with stroke or high bloodpressure but I am sure that was the cause anyway. I remember that choking feeling of thats stress and pressure. I packed up and moved to Spain with my wife; started working sane hours from home. To be clear: number of working hours have not much to do with stress levels: I sometimes still work long hours but since I never felt anything like that kind of pressure I had then. And I never will; it was silly and unproductive but as my first big company and successful startup (which gave me financial freedom early on), I did not have many history to fall back on and the advice around me was of a 'do not stress so much' kind of unhelpful level. It took me years to get over the anxiety of getting another stroke and my speech is still not what it was before; I cannot pronounce some English words correctly even though I know how to and used to be able to. But it does not impair my life or work: people seem to like that Dutch English accent while my previous English was more perfect.

lostlogin 10y ago
Could you clarify - did you have a stroke? Your post says you were observed and no cause was found. Do you mean that no cause for the stroke was found? Or no cause for the symptoms?
- tluyben2 10y ago
  No cause for the stroke. The symptoms were clearly from a stroke (a black spot on the mri if i remember correctly). A 'youngstroke' for which they had a special team in the hospital.

cesarbs 10y ago

I'm 28 and have severe hypochondria, so this article was a terrifying read. Having a stroke is my #1 fear. But reading it makes me feel good about having shifted my attitude to work after I got married. I don't think I'll ever be the workaholic that I was in my early 20s, because my priorities have shifted so much after getting married and I've become especially frightened of the idea of stressing myself out to the point of suffering something like a stroke. The last thing I want in my life is to burden my wife with having to take care of a disabled me. In fact, I don't think it's only work that can lead to bad health issues caused by stress. I have my whole routine designed to have a low stress life. I avoid bringing in anything into my life that might be a major source of stress. I keep everything as simple as possible. On the symptoms side of things though, I now have to go to the doctor. Again. Reading about the buzzing in the right eye and the tingling was terrifying because I've been feeling something similar for the past few months. So onto my 4th brain scan in the past few years... Sigh. Hypochondria is a bitch.

daeken 10y ago
> On the symptoms side of things though, I now have to go to the doctor. Again. Reading about the buzzing in the right eye and the tingling was terrifying because I've been feeling something similar for the past few months. So onto my 4th brain scan in the past few years... Sigh. Hypochondria is a bitch. I really hope you find a way to handle this that doesn't involve very expensive reassurance from doctors. I experience something very similar when I read about heart conditions; I go into a spiral of anxiety where I believe my heart is failing, even though countless doctors have assured me that I'm perfectly fine there. Isn't the human brain just a ton of fun?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  The trick is to accept that we're animals, and that meta-cognition is only a part of the game we're playing. We have to figure out ways to deal with the less expressive and more primitive parts of ourselves that don't respond as well to that "internal voice". Sometimes you just have to count primes and take deep breaths, even if it feels silly.

sotojuan 10y ago

Many people in this thread lamenting overworking in their youth. Maybe I've been lucky but at 22 I'm very happy with my decent 9-5 type employments. I've never felt the ambition necessary to sacrifice my free time for work—I'm satisfied with what I have.

kajjffkk 10y ago
Many people seem to work solely to earn income. I feel like this is a common work arrangement. Others work to make income and intellectually and emotionally satisfy themselves. Perhaps you're in this camp? If so, I'm with you on that one. Granted at some point of income, a certain amount of income without personal fulfillment is preferable to me due to the delayed gratification possibilities.

WhitneyLand 10y ago

Related info: Compared to people with the lowest psychological scores, those with highest scores were: 86 percent more likely to have a stroke or TIA for high depressive symptoms. 59 percent more likely to have a stroke or TIA for the highest chronic stress scores. More than twice as likely to have a stroke or TIA for the highest hostility scores. http://newsroom.heart.org/news/high-stress-hostility-depression-linked-with-increased-stroke-risk http://newsroom.heart.org/news/high-stress-hostility-depress...

austinjp 10y ago
Yep, although: "One thing we didn’t assess is coping strategies...it’s possible that positive coping strategies could ameliorate some of these associations or effects... We did not inquire about coping. I would say that’s one of the tasks for future studies."

Animats 10y ago

"Being so young, I had not even considered that having a stroke was a possibility. But I have since learned that they are on the rise among younger people." Uh oh. Does anybody keep stats for YC companies?

Animats 10y ago
A stroke related to overwork may be eligible for workmens' compensation.[1] Call a lawyer. Lots of lawyers take such cases on contingency; the victim doesn't pay anything unless they win. [1] http://www.rehmlaw.com/Workers-Compensation/Workers-Compensation-FAQ.shtml#3 http://www.rehmlaw.com/Workers-Compensation/Workers-Compensa...
- reitoei 10y ago
  Works on contingency? No, money down!

dsfyu404ed 10y ago

Humans don't last long at a 100% duty cycle. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Congratulations on being able to leverage your foolishness to drive traffic to your blog.

kajjffkk 10y ago
>Humans don't last long at a 100% duty cycle. I dont disagree, but do you have a source on that?
- adrianN 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi
copperx 10y ago
You haven't met my famous Russian professor who works 7 days of the week and seems pretty happy with his life.
rjtobin 10y ago
Kind of shocking lack of empathy in that last sentence. Don't get me wrong, I hate the "you shouldn't say anything offensive" brigade, but equally, no reason to be so caustic. Overwork is a big part of tech culture sadly, posts like these are helpful, even if they are only reminders of things we already know.
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  Right? I don't understand how someone can read an article like this and have that reaction. An anecdote drives the point home a lot more than common sense. Also, what's this about driving blog traffic? He didn't work himself into the ground with the intention of writing a blog post about it.
- legacynl 10y ago
  "I would easily clock 70 hours of work a week — more if we were on a deadline. I was often the first in the office and the last to leave." - quoted from article. This doesn't sound healthy to me. I wonder if anyone can really argue with that. That's 10 hours per day at least! Adding 8 hours of sleep, only gives him 6 hours to do EVERYTHING else in his life. That's friends, family, leisure, excersise, but also groceries, commuting, cooking, cleaning, walking his dog. It might be a big part of tech culture, but just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean this guy should. I would hestitate to call this guy stupid, but let's call it naive then.

jdimov10 10y ago

Don't make time to untangle. Stay untangled. Live your life. Enjoy it. Have fun. If you have any time left after that, then may be do some of that inconsequential stuff like earning money or achievements. These are nice, if you enjoy doing them, but are not important. Unlike what you've been brainwashed to believe, your life does not depend on those things. Your well-being does not depend on those things. The well-being of your family and children does not depend on those things. It's the other way around.

fiatjaf 10y ago
Have you actually passed two days without any money in your pocket?
- jdimov10 10y ago
  Yes, I have passed many more than two days without any money in my pocket. As any human being, I've had my highs and lows. I've decided that I like the highs better and money is quite handy in that regard. What I'm saying is - it tends to come to you easier once you stop freaking out about it. As do all things. Struggle is always counterproductive and it is never worth sacrificing your health for money.
  - fiatjaf 10y ago
    Right, thank you very much for your answer. You are probably right.

infodroid 10y ago

It's sad that the author effectively blames himself for overworking and the resulting stroke. It might be the more socially-acceptable explanation, but there is more to it than that. He wouldn't be clocking 70 hours a week and bearing "self-imposed tortures", while ignoring the symptoms of exhaustion, unless his peers and the wider society rewarded it, as part of a self-destructive feedback loop. And we are all complicit in it, since we keep praising people who successfully "hustled ... up the chain of command", "managed to survive layoffs", and are now "leading development and marketing for a team" after only a few months. Overworking is nothing to celebrate and it shouldn't be a role model for anyone. We shouldn't reward this behavior when we encounter it.

coldtea 10y ago

>My doctor did not directly link my stroke to overwork, but said it could have been aggravated by stress, overexertion and exhaustion. Could he put it any more directly?

gerbilly 10y ago

I've been thinking about this lately and I've concluded that a big driver of overwork is the misguided quest for fulfillment. Not really fulfillment like we normally call it, I'd say more like acceptance. Perhaps many of us are seeking love and acceptance from bosses and coworkers, and overworking ourselves to obtain it. I believe that building your identity on anything that isn't yours is stressful. Building your ego on your job performance or on the positive feedback you get from coworkers isn't healthy. It's like emotional sharecropping. You are building your ego on someone else's land. People need to remember that work is the place where they have "human resource" departments, where they will make cut and dried decisions on who to retain and who to lay off the moment they want to adjust a budget.

infodroid 10y ago
> many of us are seeking love and acceptance I would go further than that, because I don't think this gets to the heart of the matter. The main driver of overwork is the promise of higher status that certain cultures bestow on those who pursue it [1]. The respect of bosses and the admiration of coworkers are just the consequences. As are the material benefits, like the increased salary and all the things it might buy. Yet advising overworkers to stop looking to others for positive feedback is not going to work for everyone. A large proportion of people identify as extroverts, people who need validation from others in order to feel good about themselves. And it's unrealistic to expect extroverts to be happy with valuing their self-worth the way introverts do. [1] Alain de Botton has a great book on this topic entitled Status Anxiety: http://alaindebotton.com/status/ http://alaindebotton.com/status/
RankingMember 10y ago
> It's like emotional sharecropping. You are building your ego on someone else's land. Nicely put.
SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
> People need to remember that work is the place where they have "human resource" departments, where they will make cut and dried decisions on who to retain and who to lay off the moment they want to adjust a budget. Or looked at from another angle, this is one of the very reasons people want to be seen to be "going the extra mile" compared to their colleagues (not that I'm disagreeing - the point about seeking acceptance is a very important one).

agumonkey 10y ago

I had an accident that led to cardiovascular / brain issues that reminded me of this, although less critical at first, but lingering. Since I do not need to be hospitalized, I could reflect on it, and it was like knowing how it felt to be handicaped, suffering debilitating diseases or even what old age could feel. It sheds a strong light on the life of others and yours, how fragile health can be. That said it's also sad how impossible it is to know this beforehand (if you're between child and old, many doctors will just handwave over some symptoms).

BigJeffeRonaldo 10y ago

It's not complicated to understand. If you work hard, you need rest. Your body, if you don't derange her with stimulant drinks and cocaine, she will tell you, "I need to rest!" So just listen! It's not that hard. Just listen to your grandma instead of being a techno nerd who drinks red bull until he is deranged with permanently lowered IQ from sleep deprivation and a weird disease. If you work hard, you need a rest.