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I think it's dangerous to try to attempt humorous sarcasm if you can't pull it off. I agree with the guy, but this is painful to read. Thoughtful analysis trum

I think it's dangerous to try to attempt humorous sarcasm if you can't pull it off. I agree with the guy, but this is painful to read. Thoughtful analysis trumps cheap shots even when you're in the right.

ffalt 17y ago
I don't see how this could harm. There has been too much "toughtful analysis" in this religious war. I'm still laughing.
- reitzensteinm 17y ago
  This is not a religious war, at its core. Anyone making it out to be is confusing the issue, but I haven't seen much of that on HN. The owner of a platform is making a very clear and calculated business decision in order to strengthen their position. This comes at the expense of the thousands of businesses that are attempting to profit from the platform. Just because Mac vs PC, Android vs iPhone etc from a consumer perspective gets lost in endless, meaningless, irrational internet debate does not mean that you can't have rational, in depth discussion about issues related to developing software for these platforms.
  - ffalt 17y ago
    You are right. At its core the dispute is not funny at all. And I'm not against rationality. I'm affected financially by Apples move myself (before anybody asks: no, not flash). I stand by my point that it's a religious war since it's not about technology _at all_. There are fundamentalist on both sides and they don't and won't care about any argument. Endless, meaningless, irrational internet debates don't mean that you can't have a good laugh.
- adzuci 17y ago
  I have to agree with the laughing part, and I might say that calling this a "religious war" is going a bit too far, but I'd say that for emacs vs vim fanatics as well. I'm frustrated with Apple for their choices, but I expect that developers will work with it, and Apple does have some good points to their aid. Overall, Apple will happily bicker with their developers, but in the end they will always be trying to support them. On the sarcasm part, I think anyone coming across this and missing that won't think too much about it, and no harm done will be remembered.
neonfunk 17y ago
It's exactly this kind of sarcasm I avoid when replying to someone I disagree with (HN has definitely helped me mature comments-wise). It antagonizes the opposite party, preventing a rational debate. There are plenty of smart people who disagree with you. Assuming the answer is obvious harms your argument. (I have a personal exception for tea baggers.)
- jimbokun 17y ago
  "(I have a personal exception for tea baggers.)" I have a personal exception for anyone who thinks it is a good idea to legally enforce programming language choice in a developer agreement.
- reitzensteinm 17y ago
  It's a bad habit that I've (mostly successfully) tried to stop myself as well. Growing up, I was struck by two realisations: 1) I had dismissed sarcastically (or worse) many people as idiots who I discovered later were right 2) I have very little capacity to determine whether someone is thinking two or three steps ahead of me, at least from a couple of forum posts The pain of remembering multiple situations where I was 'that guy' is enough to keep me in check, mostly :)
- jerf 17y ago
  Your attempt at an aura of wisdom is rather sullied when you tar half of a country with a crude sexual epitaph. (Or are you perhaps one of the apparently large number of people who are unaware of what "tea bagger" actually means?) I suggest that your "maturity" is still perhaps not to the point where you should be lecturing others quite yet.
  - neonfunk 17y ago
    Looking at my comment again, I think you're right. I'm succumbing to the same cheap temptation. Morals for me intertwine much more with politics than with tech -- and I feel strongly enough sometimes that I can't contain myself. How to constructively debate with people who seem as if in another world? That I would even say that surely indicates I haven't figured it out yet; it seems impossible that we could see things so differently -- it's almost painful to think about.
hristov 17y ago
I thought it was pretty funny.

ffalt 17y ago

I don't see how this could harm. There has been too much "toughtful analysis" in this religious war. I'm still laughing.

reitzensteinm 17y ago
This is not a religious war, at its core. Anyone making it out to be is confusing the issue, but I haven't seen much of that on HN. The owner of a platform is making a very clear and calculated business decision in order to strengthen their position. This comes at the expense of the thousands of businesses that are attempting to profit from the platform. Just because Mac vs PC, Android vs iPhone etc from a consumer perspective gets lost in endless, meaningless, irrational internet debate does not mean that you can't have rational, in depth discussion about issues related to developing software for these platforms.
- ffalt 17y ago
  You are right. At its core the dispute is not funny at all. And I'm not against rationality. I'm affected financially by Apples move myself (before anybody asks: no, not flash). I stand by my point that it's a religious war since it's not about technology _at all_. There are fundamentalist on both sides and they don't and won't care about any argument. Endless, meaningless, irrational internet debates don't mean that you can't have a good laugh.
adzuci 17y ago
I have to agree with the laughing part, and I might say that calling this a "religious war" is going a bit too far, but I'd say that for emacs vs vim fanatics as well. I'm frustrated with Apple for their choices, but I expect that developers will work with it, and Apple does have some good points to their aid. Overall, Apple will happily bicker with their developers, but in the end they will always be trying to support them. On the sarcasm part, I think anyone coming across this and missing that won't think too much about it, and no harm done will be remembered.

neonfunk 17y ago

It's exactly this kind of sarcasm I avoid when replying to someone I disagree with (HN has definitely helped me mature comments-wise). It antagonizes the opposite party, preventing a rational debate. There are plenty of smart people who disagree with you. Assuming the answer is obvious harms your argument. (I have a personal exception for tea baggers.)

jimbokun 17y ago
"(I have a personal exception for tea baggers.)" I have a personal exception for anyone who thinks it is a good idea to legally enforce programming language choice in a developer agreement.
reitzensteinm 17y ago
It's a bad habit that I've (mostly successfully) tried to stop myself as well. Growing up, I was struck by two realisations: 1) I had dismissed sarcastically (or worse) many people as idiots who I discovered later were right 2) I have very little capacity to determine whether someone is thinking two or three steps ahead of me, at least from a couple of forum posts The pain of remembering multiple situations where I was 'that guy' is enough to keep me in check, mostly :)
jerf 17y ago
Your attempt at an aura of wisdom is rather sullied when you tar half of a country with a crude sexual epitaph. (Or are you perhaps one of the apparently large number of people who are unaware of what "tea bagger" actually means?) I suggest that your "maturity" is still perhaps not to the point where you should be lecturing others quite yet.
- neonfunk 17y ago
  Looking at my comment again, I think you're right. I'm succumbing to the same cheap temptation. Morals for me intertwine much more with politics than with tech -- and I feel strongly enough sometimes that I can't contain myself. How to constructively debate with people who seem as if in another world? That I would even say that surely indicates I haven't figured it out yet; it seems impossible that we could see things so differently -- it's almost painful to think about.

hristov 17y ago

I thought it was pretty funny.