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And home prices are, what, 8x to 15x US average? You can buy a great house in Omaha for $150,000, a comparable home in the valley would run $2,500,000 or more.

And home prices are, what, 8x to 15x US average? You can buy a great house in Omaha for $150,000, a comparable home in the valley would run $2,500,000 or more. And yes, you can get a job in Omaha that pays well! Unfortunately, many people now have to treat the valley as a stepping stone, it's a gauntlet to endure long enough to make substantial money and then they have to get out. Get rich from options or some other liquidation event, then pack up and move to a place where cost of living is vaguely reasonable. For many people, the only way to stay in the valley longterm, establish a household, maybe have a family with kids, and comfortably afford a generic "middle class" standard of life, is with a truly significant payout, the type of payout that would define someone as "rich" elsewhere in the USA. I know this is uncomfortable and unpopular to discuss, and we're all very fortunate to even entertain such discussions especially compared to the hardships of most Americans and global citizens, but who in tech has not experienced this? Whether it's the enticement to go work in the valley for some theoretical payday, or the feeling you must leave once you reach X net worth otherwise you'll never be able to actually afford it?

MBlume 10y ago
Some people are trying to fix it: http://www.sfyimby.org/ http://www.sfyimby.org/
- muzz 10y ago
  They are well-intentioned but misguided about the true causes of housing shortage, which are more related to statewide factors like Prop 13 than local ones.
  - MBlume 10y ago
    No, pretty much all of them know prop 13's a serious problem. You can't repeal prop 13 except at the ballot, which would be pretty hard.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
I know this might sound like a broken record, but a lot of people don't want to live in Omaha: it is a right-valued sprawling city with very four season weather. Compare SF to other west coast cities, and maybe even to a few east coast ones...but those more central midwest and mountain west cities have a very different lifestyle to consider.
- Xcelerate 10y ago
  I second this. It's hard to find a city comparable to SF in terms of what the city has to offer (tech, weather, outdoor activities, picturesque terrain, food). That said, many cities are beginning to improve significantly. In the last four years, the area where I live has seen a drop in the number of fast food chain restaurants and an increase in family owned restaurants with locally sourced foods that are unique to the region. The newest generation seems to want less suburban sprawl and more of a soft-urban lifestyle — instead of a big house, a car, and nothing to do, it seems people are trending toward smaller homes with more interesting nearby activities. The previously dead downtown areas are beginning to revitalize (at least in the southern US).
- dionidium 10y ago
  Those same people probably prefer to drive a Lamborghini, too, but so what? A Honda is a fine car for normal folks. And Omaha is a fine city.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Omaha is more like a Chevy, very American. It isn't going to have the international draw of a coastal city, and someone moving there has to be ok with that.
    - dionidium 10y ago
      I don't know much about Omaha, so I won't comment on it, specifically. But I do know a fair amount about St. Louis, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and a couple other Midwestern cities. They're all pretty reliably liberal. And they've each got their vegan restaurants, dive bars, comedy troupes, public transit, art museums, symphonies, Magic: The Gathering Meetup groups, Black Repertory Theaters, major national sports teams, gay bars, Strava cycling groups, hipster neighborhoods, and so on and so on and so on. I know what people in San Francisco picture when they think of the Midwest and there's no other way to say it: they're wrong. None of which is to say that any of those cities are quite what San Francisco is. Of course not! But people seem to think that Midwestern cities have all the cultural diversity of an anti-abortion rally. And that's really nothing more than ignorance. I recently got into a pretty silly spat with someone on Twitter who thought it was quite the dagger to point out that I lived in the Midwest. Don't be that guy. Again, not because it's mean, or whatever -- because it's uninformed.
shas3 10y ago
There's nothing wrong with Omaha per se, but some of the most cutting edge technology work is truly happening in, Bay Area, Boston, Seattle, and secondarily, NYC, Dallas, Austin, DC (defense). Given this, while Omaha, Nashville, Oklahoma City, St. Louis, may, to varying extents, be great cities with good schools cheap housing, etc. they don't necessarily have the best technology companies. The key to this problem is really held by cities like Twin Cities, Dallas, Research Triangle NC, and Atlanta, which have great infrastructure, industrial cultures, cheap housing. It would be nice if tech companies open substantial outposts there or if new companies are founded there that become Amazon-level successful. Whether this will actually happen is another thing altogether. These cities haven't spawned super-successful tech companies in the last 30 years, but have older "tech"/industrial companies that continue to thrive.
- bbravado 10y ago
  Counter point to your first sentence: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/that-physicist-in-omaha-is-still-working-on-a-warp-drive-in-his-garage http://motherboard.vice.com/read/that-physicist-in-omaha-is-...
dmead 10y ago
I just came to the bay because it's nice. I have no allusions that it'll be permanent or I'll find a huge payday. It's just really nice.
matthewowen 10y ago
Omaha has no homes that are comparable to Bay Area homes, because all the homes in Omaha are in Omaha. Some people like Omaha. That's fine. But if you want a mix of city culture, a range of excellent restaurants, bars, a reasonable public transit system, and the particular outdoor options that the Bay Area has, then Omaha isn't an option. Maube this sounds facile, but it's important. It's not like San Francisco is expensive purely because of the economy or the government or whatever. It's expensive because lots of people want the things it has to offer.
- liquidise 10y ago
  It is facile. You can insert any 2 areas for "Omaha" and "Bay Area" and much if not all of what you says remains true. Denver is also known for nearly everything you mention except valley companies. Our housing is a fraction of bay area prices. Heck, even places like Portland, ME offer all but similar ethnic diversity and their home costs are a small fraction bay area prices. The difference at play is not culture. The difference is housing market restrictions, median wages and company + worker density. Every city has cultural, food and geographic advantages. To word it that the Bay Area is nearly strictly superior is to frankly confuse the issue entirely.
  - matthewowen 10y ago
    I didn't say it was strictly superior. Denver has snow. It doesn't have a comparable food scene. Portland, ME is small and has cold winters. Did you mean Portland, OR? Again, big climate difference. Again, it's not whether one is better or not. That's personal preference. But the Bay Area has excellent cultural amenities and a pleasant climate. There are many people for whom that is important. There's a reason so many people say that they'd love to live in Chicago if it weren't for the winters. If that doesn't apply to you, congratulations! You can save money! Personally, I like being in the Bay Area, and the things I like about it aren't available in Omaha or Denver.
    - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
      "and the things I like about it aren't available in Omaha or Denver" Like $4 gas and $6 bagels? Or is the the ability to belong to a group of people that can afford $4 gas and $6 bagels that's notably missing from other places?

MBlume 10y ago

Some people are trying to fix it: http://www.sfyimby.org/ http://www.sfyimby.org/

muzz 10y ago
They are well-intentioned but misguided about the true causes of housing shortage, which are more related to statewide factors like Prop 13 than local ones.
- MBlume 10y ago
  No, pretty much all of them know prop 13's a serious problem. You can't repeal prop 13 except at the ballot, which would be pretty hard.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

I know this might sound like a broken record, but a lot of people don't want to live in Omaha: it is a right-valued sprawling city with very four season weather. Compare SF to other west coast cities, and maybe even to a few east coast ones...but those more central midwest and mountain west cities have a very different lifestyle to consider.

Xcelerate 10y ago
I second this. It's hard to find a city comparable to SF in terms of what the city has to offer (tech, weather, outdoor activities, picturesque terrain, food). That said, many cities are beginning to improve significantly. In the last four years, the area where I live has seen a drop in the number of fast food chain restaurants and an increase in family owned restaurants with locally sourced foods that are unique to the region. The newest generation seems to want less suburban sprawl and more of a soft-urban lifestyle — instead of a big house, a car, and nothing to do, it seems people are trending toward smaller homes with more interesting nearby activities. The previously dead downtown areas are beginning to revitalize (at least in the southern US).
dionidium 10y ago
Those same people probably prefer to drive a Lamborghini, too, but so what? A Honda is a fine car for normal folks. And Omaha is a fine city.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Omaha is more like a Chevy, very American. It isn't going to have the international draw of a coastal city, and someone moving there has to be ok with that.
  - dionidium 10y ago
    I don't know much about Omaha, so I won't comment on it, specifically. But I do know a fair amount about St. Louis, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and a couple other Midwestern cities. They're all pretty reliably liberal. And they've each got their vegan restaurants, dive bars, comedy troupes, public transit, art museums, symphonies, Magic: The Gathering Meetup groups, Black Repertory Theaters, major national sports teams, gay bars, Strava cycling groups, hipster neighborhoods, and so on and so on and so on. I know what people in San Francisco picture when they think of the Midwest and there's no other way to say it: they're wrong. None of which is to say that any of those cities are quite what San Francisco is. Of course not! But people seem to think that Midwestern cities have all the cultural diversity of an anti-abortion rally. And that's really nothing more than ignorance. I recently got into a pretty silly spat with someone on Twitter who thought it was quite the dagger to point out that I lived in the Midwest. Don't be that guy. Again, not because it's mean, or whatever -- because it's uninformed.

shas3 10y ago

There's nothing wrong with Omaha per se, but some of the most cutting edge technology work is truly happening in, Bay Area, Boston, Seattle, and secondarily, NYC, Dallas, Austin, DC (defense). Given this, while Omaha, Nashville, Oklahoma City, St. Louis, may, to varying extents, be great cities with good schools cheap housing, etc. they don't necessarily have the best technology companies. The key to this problem is really held by cities like Twin Cities, Dallas, Research Triangle NC, and Atlanta, which have great infrastructure, industrial cultures, cheap housing. It would be nice if tech companies open substantial outposts there or if new companies are founded there that become Amazon-level successful. Whether this will actually happen is another thing altogether. These cities haven't spawned super-successful tech companies in the last 30 years, but have older "tech"/industrial companies that continue to thrive.

bbravado 10y ago
Counter point to your first sentence: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/that-physicist-in-omaha-is-still-working-on-a-warp-drive-in-his-garage http://motherboard.vice.com/read/that-physicist-in-omaha-is-...

dmead 10y ago

I just came to the bay because it's nice. I have no allusions that it'll be permanent or I'll find a huge payday. It's just really nice.

matthewowen 10y ago

Omaha has no homes that are comparable to Bay Area homes, because all the homes in Omaha are in Omaha. Some people like Omaha. That's fine. But if you want a mix of city culture, a range of excellent restaurants, bars, a reasonable public transit system, and the particular outdoor options that the Bay Area has, then Omaha isn't an option. Maube this sounds facile, but it's important. It's not like San Francisco is expensive purely because of the economy or the government or whatever. It's expensive because lots of people want the things it has to offer.

liquidise 10y ago
It is facile. You can insert any 2 areas for "Omaha" and "Bay Area" and much if not all of what you says remains true. Denver is also known for nearly everything you mention except valley companies. Our housing is a fraction of bay area prices. Heck, even places like Portland, ME offer all but similar ethnic diversity and their home costs are a small fraction bay area prices. The difference at play is not culture. The difference is housing market restrictions, median wages and company + worker density. Every city has cultural, food and geographic advantages. To word it that the Bay Area is nearly strictly superior is to frankly confuse the issue entirely.
- matthewowen 10y ago
  I didn't say it was strictly superior. Denver has snow. It doesn't have a comparable food scene. Portland, ME is small and has cold winters. Did you mean Portland, OR? Again, big climate difference. Again, it's not whether one is better or not. That's personal preference. But the Bay Area has excellent cultural amenities and a pleasant climate. There are many people for whom that is important. There's a reason so many people say that they'd love to live in Chicago if it weren't for the winters. If that doesn't apply to you, congratulations! You can save money! Personally, I like being in the Bay Area, and the things I like about it aren't available in Omaha or Denver.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    "and the things I like about it aren't available in Omaha or Denver" Like $4 gas and $6 bagels? Or is the the ability to belong to a group of people that can afford $4 gas and $6 bagels that's notably missing from other places?