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> But it's an incredibly dangerous neighborhood for the locals, who are among the poorest people in the region. Yes, that's because a lot of the locals are cau

> But it's an incredibly dangerous neighborhood for the locals, who are among the poorest people in the region. Yes, that's because a lot of the locals are caught up in some shady activities. Gang violence and drug violence generally don't bother outsiders. Being poor doesn't have much to do with it, except to make you want to get caught up in the life to make some money for your family.

kasey_junk 10y ago
He's arguing by example that your idea that the Mission being more dangerous for someone with "assets" doesn't play out in other parts of major American cities. I don't know anything about the mission but in my southside Chicago neighborhood having assets will not get you targeted. Being a young black kid from the wrong block will. This thread is basically all about the idea that rich techies deciding if a neighborhood is more safe from their perspective is flawed, because they are likely to be the least impacted. From my experience, that's true.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Being a young black kid from the wrong block will. Why are you inserting age and race into this discussion? Either you're caught up in street drama or you're not. If you're not, people generally don't mess with you unless you have assets, there's nothing in it for them. > This thread is basically all about the idea that rich techies deciding if a neighborhood is more safe from their perspective is flawed, because they are likely to be the least impacted. From my experience, that's true. Agreed, not because they're "rich" or "techie", but because they haven't been around long enough to take sides and get targeted by a particular group of people. "Rich techies" is just a dog whistle to try to get sympathy.
  - kasey_junk 10y ago
    > Why are you inserting age and race into this discussion? Because by every metric you can come up with young black men in my neighborhood are in more danger than any one else & it has nothing to do with their criminal affiliation. It is a trivial excercise to find kids that grew up just like me but black, who experience violence levels unheard of where I grew up & the only demographic difference is race. The idea that its only "criminals" who suffer from American urban violence is so trivially refuted that no one who studies it seriously considers it credible. Yet on one of the most affluent tech boards in the world its considered normal to argue the opposite.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      > It is a trivial excercise to find kids that grew up just like me but black, who experience violence levels unheard of where I grew up & the only demographic difference is race. The idea that its only "criminals" who suffer from American urban violence is so trivially refuted that no one who studies it seriously considers it credible. Spend the trivial effort and show me. > Yet on one of the most affluent tech boards in the world its considered normal to argue the opposite. What does affluent and tech have to do with anything? Let's spin this another way. By every metric you can come up with, young black men are more likely to commit homicide, deal drugs, skip out on child support, and be incarcerated than any one else, and the only demographic differnce is race. It has nothing to do with their criminal affiliation. Once you start going against the social narrative, things get interesting.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Spend a lot of time in bad neighborhoods? One of my son's classmates, Elijah Sims, was just shot in the head and killed less than a mile from our high school. He used to live east of Austin Blvd, which divides Oak Park (our wealthy suburb) from the neighborhood Austin on the west side of the city. He and his family moved into Oak Park to get access to our school district. But of course he had friends in Austin, and he'd ride his bike 5 minutes or so over to Columbus Park to hang out with them. He wasn't a white dude on a bicycle with a backpack with a $2000 laptop in it. If he had been, the car that drove alongside him and his friends and opened fire on them would have driven right by. They're not interested in "victimizing" "techies". Can you tell me more about the "street drama" Elijah was caught up in? You think his story is unique? You're right! It is! His family had moved to Oak Park, and students at OPRF don't routinely get murdered. It was newsworthy. You can search "Oak Park student murdered" and get story after story. But kids in South Austin and for fuck's sake Englewood and god help you if you live in or around Gary --- they're in "street drama" as soon as they set foot out of the house every morning. We techies in Oak Park and Logan Square don't hear so much about it when they got shot. I go to Gary every so often; there's a couple of really good beer bars out near there. You know how scared I am to be there? Really not scared at all. White dude. Nobody has to guess if I'm affiliated, and I'm not there long enough to catch a stray, like Zariah Muhammad did in Park Manor --- near Uncle John's Barbecue, a Chicago foodie destination. The white dudes who venture out for hot links and rib tips don't seem to get shot. I guess they're better at "not taking sides" and "getting targeted by a particular group of people". Zariah got caught up in street drama, too, I guess. She's 6 years old. Come to think of it, when I lived in an apartment in Bayview in '98 --- when the murder rate in SF was, it looks like, 50% higher --- I was never worried either. And I was the dumbass parking a BMW on the street. So I guess long story short is, I'm questioning the logic you're applying to rough neighborhoods. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean: maybe you do. I'm really seriously asking.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      > Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean: maybe you do. I'm really seriously asking. That's a good question. Chicago is a very racially segregated city, but so is the San Francisco Bay Area. You bring up several anecdotes, mainly involving a killing and a feeling of safety. The plural of anecdote of is not data. I've lived in some bad areas, but never anywhere with the racial tension that seems prevalent in Chicago. But I will say, if you're not in the East Bay, if you walk into a bar full of black people, if you're not black or with black friends, you walk back out again real quick.

kasey_junk 10y ago

He's arguing by example that your idea that the Mission being more dangerous for someone with "assets" doesn't play out in other parts of major American cities. I don't know anything about the mission but in my southside Chicago neighborhood having assets will not get you targeted. Being a young black kid from the wrong block will. This thread is basically all about the idea that rich techies deciding if a neighborhood is more safe from their perspective is flawed, because they are likely to be the least impacted. From my experience, that's true.

jimmywanger 10y ago
> Being a young black kid from the wrong block will. Why are you inserting age and race into this discussion? Either you're caught up in street drama or you're not. If you're not, people generally don't mess with you unless you have assets, there's nothing in it for them. > This thread is basically all about the idea that rich techies deciding if a neighborhood is more safe from their perspective is flawed, because they are likely to be the least impacted. From my experience, that's true. Agreed, not because they're "rich" or "techie", but because they haven't been around long enough to take sides and get targeted by a particular group of people. "Rich techies" is just a dog whistle to try to get sympathy.
- kasey_junk 10y ago
  > Why are you inserting age and race into this discussion? Because by every metric you can come up with young black men in my neighborhood are in more danger than any one else & it has nothing to do with their criminal affiliation. It is a trivial excercise to find kids that grew up just like me but black, who experience violence levels unheard of where I grew up & the only demographic difference is race. The idea that its only "criminals" who suffer from American urban violence is so trivially refuted that no one who studies it seriously considers it credible. Yet on one of the most affluent tech boards in the world its considered normal to argue the opposite.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > It is a trivial excercise to find kids that grew up just like me but black, who experience violence levels unheard of where I grew up & the only demographic difference is race. The idea that its only "criminals" who suffer from American urban violence is so trivially refuted that no one who studies it seriously considers it credible. Spend the trivial effort and show me. > Yet on one of the most affluent tech boards in the world its considered normal to argue the opposite. What does affluent and tech have to do with anything? Let's spin this another way. By every metric you can come up with, young black men are more likely to commit homicide, deal drugs, skip out on child support, and be incarcerated than any one else, and the only demographic differnce is race. It has nothing to do with their criminal affiliation. Once you start going against the social narrative, things get interesting.
- tptacek 10y ago
  Spend a lot of time in bad neighborhoods? One of my son's classmates, Elijah Sims, was just shot in the head and killed less than a mile from our high school. He used to live east of Austin Blvd, which divides Oak Park (our wealthy suburb) from the neighborhood Austin on the west side of the city. He and his family moved into Oak Park to get access to our school district. But of course he had friends in Austin, and he'd ride his bike 5 minutes or so over to Columbus Park to hang out with them. He wasn't a white dude on a bicycle with a backpack with a $2000 laptop in it. If he had been, the car that drove alongside him and his friends and opened fire on them would have driven right by. They're not interested in "victimizing" "techies". Can you tell me more about the "street drama" Elijah was caught up in? You think his story is unique? You're right! It is! His family had moved to Oak Park, and students at OPRF don't routinely get murdered. It was newsworthy. You can search "Oak Park student murdered" and get story after story. But kids in South Austin and for fuck's sake Englewood and god help you if you live in or around Gary --- they're in "street drama" as soon as they set foot out of the house every morning. We techies in Oak Park and Logan Square don't hear so much about it when they got shot. I go to Gary every so often; there's a couple of really good beer bars out near there. You know how scared I am to be there? Really not scared at all. White dude. Nobody has to guess if I'm affiliated, and I'm not there long enough to catch a stray, like Zariah Muhammad did in Park Manor --- near Uncle John's Barbecue, a Chicago foodie destination. The white dudes who venture out for hot links and rib tips don't seem to get shot. I guess they're better at "not taking sides" and "getting targeted by a particular group of people". Zariah got caught up in street drama, too, I guess. She's 6 years old. Come to think of it, when I lived in an apartment in Bayview in '98 --- when the murder rate in SF was, it looks like, 50% higher --- I was never worried either. And I was the dumbass parking a BMW on the street. So I guess long story short is, I'm questioning the logic you're applying to rough neighborhoods. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean: maybe you do. I'm really seriously asking.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean: maybe you do. I'm really seriously asking. That's a good question. Chicago is a very racially segregated city, but so is the San Francisco Bay Area. You bring up several anecdotes, mainly involving a killing and a feeling of safety. The plural of anecdote of is not data. I've lived in some bad areas, but never anywhere with the racial tension that seems prevalent in Chicago. But I will say, if you're not in the East Bay, if you walk into a bar full of black people, if you're not black or with black friends, you walk back out again real quick.