4 ms·

"You break the law, you go to jail." I think the argument is that there is nothing productive about sending people to prison. At least not as prison, prison ti

"You break the law, you go to jail." I think the argument is that there is nothing productive about sending people to prison. At least not as prison, prison time, and transitioning back to society is currently structured. It's not better for society, it's not better for the victim (and what if there is no victim), and it's not better for the person going to jail. So why do it? Why not take a more results based approach to preventing people from reoffending? Why not make it easier for them to reintegrate into society once they are out? If all you want to do is punish people out of some need for retribution sure keep it up. But then you have to accept the costs that come with that need for retribution.

aisofteng 10y ago
The productive part is preventing them from damaging public safety and the lives of others who choose not to do things that we have decided as a society to codify as illegal. If someone is robbing people in a neighborhood, say, how could not removing them possibly be the better choice?
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  How about removing the reasons they rob, or giving them the psychiatric help they need to prevent them from robbing someone? I'd much rather have someone become a productive member of society then let them rot away in jail.
  - Fjolsvith 10y ago
    Do you own a house or a car? Lets take them away from you so they won't rob you.
  - wruza 10y ago
    Psychiatry doesn't work that way, man. You can't take a pill and become greatest neighbor on the block. Or solve everyone's problems and then live happily. Your otherwise cool idea has no real implementations (communism doesn't count).
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      Uhh, yeah, I never said it was easy or simple. It's gonna take a lot of hard work to get people adjusted, and I don't believe we even can adjust everyone. But that approach is more realistic and successful than "don't commit crimes" > Your otherwise cool idea has no real implementations (communism doesn't count). Other than the fact that it has completely real and provable implementations: http://www.alltreatment.com/drug-rehab-infographic http://www.alltreatment.com/drug-rehab-infographic http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/18/prison-could-be-productive/punishment-fails-rehabilitation-works http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/18/prison-could...
      - wruza 10y ago
        First link seems to be irrelevant since it only covers drug addiction that can be treated as mental disease, but other potential crimes can not. Second article shows reduction of violence in or after the jail, not reduction of violence per se. You cannot forcibly cure not-yet-guilty with that, and they aren't guilty until commit a crime. But it is great method on its own.
        CaptSpify 10y ago
        Those are just the first two links I found after 5 seconds of searching though. My points have been proven over and over and over by other studies.
        wruza 10y ago
        No amount of studies can change the following: we still can't force non-guilty guys to psychiatrist (because they are free to just not go there), and guilty guys already are in jail. Where do you think this logic should be broken? To not send them there and to cure instead? Organized crimes will grow on this scheme like mushrooms after rain. To test and monitor everyone before they do something? That's what everyone is fighting with (Snowden et al). Again, their idea is great, but it will never be elected in social context.
- ChoHag 10y ago
  > productive part is preventing them from damaging public safety and the lives of others So y'all are doing the bare minimum over there? Well done you! Hope you catch up soon! Yours, The rest of the world
wruza 10y ago
You surely never met people who understand nothing until their face is beaten into the dirt. Those in jail far too often just don't share your values, absolutely. You can't reintegrate a wolf into the herd without breaking his pride.
tomjen3 10y ago
How is it not better for me, as a victim? Should we just let people who accuse socially trust and forge checks or commit acts of violence of the hook?

aisofteng 10y ago

The productive part is preventing them from damaging public safety and the lives of others who choose not to do things that we have decided as a society to codify as illegal. If someone is robbing people in a neighborhood, say, how could not removing them possibly be the better choice?

CaptSpify 10y ago
How about removing the reasons they rob, or giving them the psychiatric help they need to prevent them from robbing someone? I'd much rather have someone become a productive member of society then let them rot away in jail.
- Fjolsvith 10y ago
  Do you own a house or a car? Lets take them away from you so they won't rob you.
- wruza 10y ago
  Psychiatry doesn't work that way, man. You can't take a pill and become greatest neighbor on the block. Or solve everyone's problems and then live happily. Your otherwise cool idea has no real implementations (communism doesn't count).
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    Uhh, yeah, I never said it was easy or simple. It's gonna take a lot of hard work to get people adjusted, and I don't believe we even can adjust everyone. But that approach is more realistic and successful than "don't commit crimes" > Your otherwise cool idea has no real implementations (communism doesn't count). Other than the fact that it has completely real and provable implementations: http://www.alltreatment.com/drug-rehab-infographic http://www.alltreatment.com/drug-rehab-infographic http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/18/prison-could-be-productive/punishment-fails-rehabilitation-works http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/18/prison-could...
    - wruza 10y ago
      First link seems to be irrelevant since it only covers drug addiction that can be treated as mental disease, but other potential crimes can not. Second article shows reduction of violence in or after the jail, not reduction of violence per se. You cannot forcibly cure not-yet-guilty with that, and they aren't guilty until commit a crime. But it is great method on its own.
      - CaptSpify 10y ago
        Those are just the first two links I found after 5 seconds of searching though. My points have been proven over and over and over by other studies.
        wruza 10y ago
        No amount of studies can change the following: we still can't force non-guilty guys to psychiatrist (because they are free to just not go there), and guilty guys already are in jail. Where do you think this logic should be broken? To not send them there and to cure instead? Organized crimes will grow on this scheme like mushrooms after rain. To test and monitor everyone before they do something? That's what everyone is fighting with (Snowden et al). Again, their idea is great, but it will never be elected in social context.
ChoHag 10y ago
> productive part is preventing them from damaging public safety and the lives of others So y'all are doing the bare minimum over there? Well done you! Hope you catch up soon! Yours, The rest of the world

wruza 10y ago

You surely never met people who understand nothing until their face is beaten into the dirt. Those in jail far too often just don't share your values, absolutely. You can't reintegrate a wolf into the herd without breaking his pride.

tomjen3 10y ago

How is it not better for me, as a victim? Should we just let people who accuse socially trust and forge checks or commit acts of violence of the hook?