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The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capac

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

kangman 10y ago
Not a fan of the design though. I'm sure it's functional but to my eyes it looks more frankencar than daily driver.
- antoniuschan99 10y ago
  only other one that looks decent is the e-golf and focus. but not a fan of hatchbacks
- Reason077 10y ago
  I think the i3 is one of the coolest looking small cars around. It is distinctive, and the designers clearly made a choice to go for a design that would get noticed. I do think it looks better in all-black, rather than the two-tone colors. It's easily one of the most popular EVs here in the UK (along with the Tesla, Renault Zoe, and Nissan Leaf). Very nice to drive with a stylish, comfortable, minimalist, premium-quality interior. BMW's software does let it down, though - at least when compared to a Tesla. But still, i'd argue if you want an EV and can't afford a Tesla, it's the best option available right now (at least until the Bolt is released).
nradov 10y ago
No, for the latest i3 BMW only claims a range of 114 miles. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN_US/the-new-2017-bmw-i3-94-ah-:-more-range-paired-to-high-level-dynamic-performance?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN...
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  I was just reading a review which said 200 under ideal conditions, interesting that BMW claim so much less. Does anyone know is there a shared standard for these claims, used by Tesla and the other companies? When Tesla says 200 miles for the model 3, is that 200 miles with a.c. and hills, or is a theoretical maximum?
  - mikeash 10y ago
    There are two major shared standards, the American EPA testing cycle and the European NEDC testing cycle. Both are based on essentially taking a car out and driving it in a certain way until the battery is dead, and seeing how far it got. The EPA range is fairly realistic in my experience, at least with a Tesla. Hills and climate control (AC not so much, but heating is huge) will affect it, but I get fairly close to the official numbers much of the time. The NEDC test is much more gentle and provides wildly unrealistic numbers. You won't achieve NEDC numbers unless you're doing something like a steady 55MPH on level ground with no climate control. You can see this in action by going to Tesla's design page and switching the country between the US and the UK. For the US, the Model S 60 is rated at 218 miles and the P100D is 315 miles. In the UK, those numbers are 253 and 381. BMW says 300km, or 186 miles, for the larger i3 battery under the NEDC: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2016/showroom/range_charging.html http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2016/showroom/ran... But the EPA range is more like 125 miles. Tesla's stated Model 3 range of 215 miles is the EPA rating, and so should be fairly realistic in mild conditions, less so in the winter or with a heavy foot. The BMW number to compare to would be 125 miles.
    - Brakenshire 10y ago
      Very interesting, exactly the answer I was hoping for. Glad to be corrected.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        Glad to help. The existence of both EPA and NEDC numbers is really confusing, especially since most range numbers you see don't specify which one they're using. Once you know what's going on with that, it all makes a lot more sense.
robterrell 10y ago
As an i3 driver... I don't think it's very competitive. The range is pretty far from the stated numbers. Noticeably worse than the much cheaper Fiat 500e, even. I wouldn't compare anything to the model 3, though, because I don't believe teals will hit their dates or price point.
gambiting 10y ago
If only it didn't look like a product of 4 different design departments welded together at the last minute, it would be almost perfect. Seriously, look at that car from the side - each panel(front body, front door, rear door, rear body) literally comes from a different designer - it doesn't even have a consistent line throughout.
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.
  - dpark 10y ago
    The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.
    - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
      Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.
    - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
      Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.
    - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
      Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.
rebootthesystem 10y ago
The i3 and i8 are terrible cars as far as I am concerned. Range sucks. And, frankly, if I have to go to a gas station might as well get rid of the electric components and make a nice car. I like the physical design of the i8. I spent a hour looking at one. Ultimately, the idea of having to endure both visiting a gas station and plugging in just turned me off. I'd consider it as a pure electric with decent range or gas only but not the combo.
- dorito_chimp 10y ago
  That's a very odd statement to make. Most people like the reassurance/range-security of being able to visit a gas station in addition to having an electrical engine. That's supposed to be a selling point of the car over Tesla even though it's electrical range sucks and Tesla's extensive supercharger network all but removes range anxiety.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I thought the selling point of the i8 over the Tesla is that the i8 is a proper sports car with BMW handling, and for the i3 the selling point is that it's way cheaper.
    - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
      Test drove both - P90D had the i8 beat in every department except maybe looks. And even there there's an argument to be had.
  - blktiger 10y ago
    I suspect most people only _think_ they want the range-security of going to a gas station. In practice they'd find it a huge hassle to both plug in the car and go to a gas station. Probably the average person would end up either only using either the battery pack or the gas tank, not both.
    - dorito_chimp 10y ago
mr337 10y ago
They tore down the i3 and showed some really interesting manufacturing techniques. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8

kangman 10y ago

Not a fan of the design though. I'm sure it's functional but to my eyes it looks more frankencar than daily driver.

antoniuschan99 10y ago
only other one that looks decent is the e-golf and focus. but not a fan of hatchbacks
Reason077 10y ago
I think the i3 is one of the coolest looking small cars around. It is distinctive, and the designers clearly made a choice to go for a design that would get noticed. I do think it looks better in all-black, rather than the two-tone colors. It's easily one of the most popular EVs here in the UK (along with the Tesla, Renault Zoe, and Nissan Leaf). Very nice to drive with a stylish, comfortable, minimalist, premium-quality interior. BMW's software does let it down, though - at least when compared to a Tesla. But still, i'd argue if you want an EV and can't afford a Tesla, it's the best option available right now (at least until the Bolt is released).

nradov 10y ago

No, for the latest i3 BMW only claims a range of 114 miles. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN_US/the-new-2017-bmw-i3-94-ah-:-more-range-paired-to-high-level-dynamic-performance?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN...

Brakenshire 10y ago
I was just reading a review which said 200 under ideal conditions, interesting that BMW claim so much less. Does anyone know is there a shared standard for these claims, used by Tesla and the other companies? When Tesla says 200 miles for the model 3, is that 200 miles with a.c. and hills, or is a theoretical maximum?
- mikeash 10y ago
  There are two major shared standards, the American EPA testing cycle and the European NEDC testing cycle. Both are based on essentially taking a car out and driving it in a certain way until the battery is dead, and seeing how far it got. The EPA range is fairly realistic in my experience, at least with a Tesla. Hills and climate control (AC not so much, but heating is huge) will affect it, but I get fairly close to the official numbers much of the time. The NEDC test is much more gentle and provides wildly unrealistic numbers. You won't achieve NEDC numbers unless you're doing something like a steady 55MPH on level ground with no climate control. You can see this in action by going to Tesla's design page and switching the country between the US and the UK. For the US, the Model S 60 is rated at 218 miles and the P100D is 315 miles. In the UK, those numbers are 253 and 381. BMW says 300km, or 186 miles, for the larger i3 battery under the NEDC: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2016/showroom/range_charging.html http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2016/showroom/ran... But the EPA range is more like 125 miles. Tesla's stated Model 3 range of 215 miles is the EPA rating, and so should be fairly realistic in mild conditions, less so in the winter or with a heavy foot. The BMW number to compare to would be 125 miles.
  - Brakenshire 10y ago
    Very interesting, exactly the answer I was hoping for. Glad to be corrected.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Glad to help. The existence of both EPA and NEDC numbers is really confusing, especially since most range numbers you see don't specify which one they're using. Once you know what's going on with that, it all makes a lot more sense.

robterrell 10y ago

As an i3 driver... I don't think it's very competitive. The range is pretty far from the stated numbers. Noticeably worse than the much cheaper Fiat 500e, even. I wouldn't compare anything to the model 3, though, because I don't believe teals will hit their dates or price point.

gambiting 10y ago

If only it didn't look like a product of 4 different design departments welded together at the last minute, it would be almost perfect. Seriously, look at that car from the side - each panel(front body, front door, rear door, rear body) literally comes from a different designer - it doesn't even have a consistent line throughout.

Brakenshire 10y ago
I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.
- dpark 10y ago
  The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.
  - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
    Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.
  - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
    Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.
  - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
    Hah, I'll stick up for it. I think it's got a certain distinct style of it's own. It's a damned sight better than some of the electric vehicles from the old days. I think it looks like a good city runner and I'd be happy to drive it. Not a BMW fan at all, default detest of that brand, but I respect their trying to push into e-vehicles. i8 was a big mis-step though. Cannot believe anyone bought it over a Tesla.

rebootthesystem 10y ago

The i3 and i8 are terrible cars as far as I am concerned. Range sucks. And, frankly, if I have to go to a gas station might as well get rid of the electric components and make a nice car. I like the physical design of the i8. I spent a hour looking at one. Ultimately, the idea of having to endure both visiting a gas station and plugging in just turned me off. I'd consider it as a pure electric with decent range or gas only but not the combo.

dorito_chimp 10y ago
That's a very odd statement to make. Most people like the reassurance/range-security of being able to visit a gas station in addition to having an electrical engine. That's supposed to be a selling point of the car over Tesla even though it's electrical range sucks and Tesla's extensive supercharger network all but removes range anxiety.
- mikeash 10y ago
  I thought the selling point of the i8 over the Tesla is that the i8 is a proper sports car with BMW handling, and for the i3 the selling point is that it's way cheaper.
  - XJOKOLAT 10y ago
    Test drove both - P90D had the i8 beat in every department except maybe looks. And even there there's an argument to be had.
- blktiger 10y ago
  I suspect most people only _think_ they want the range-security of going to a gas station. In practice they'd find it a huge hassle to both plug in the car and go to a gas station. Probably the average person would end up either only using either the battery pack or the gas tank, not both.
  - dorito_chimp 10y ago

mr337 10y ago

They tore down the i3 and showed some really interesting manufacturing techniques. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8