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I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet
by barpet 10y ago
I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver.
Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.
- adamnemecek 10y agoI think that Europeans living in Europe really don't understand how startup work.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- raphaelj 10y agoAudi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars.
- dabeeeenster 10y agoAnd they are all either: A: Hugely overpriced plug in hybrids B: Have pathetic range
- raphaelj 10y agoAnd everybody knows that Model S is not an expensive car.
- icebraining 10y agoYes, but it's fully electric, not an hybrid with a tiny all-electric range.
- martin_bech 10y agoFor the performance and features, it is in no way expensive. The P100DL beats a Lamborghini Huracan off the line up to 100mph+ at a fraction of the cost. Disclosure I own a Models S 85D.
- fabrice_d 10y agoSure, but you're not gonna do a race lap at full speed with a Tesla. These 0 to 100 numbers don't tell the full performance story at all.
- greglindahl 10y agoI don't know what country you're from, but in the US there are a lot of people who obsess about straight-line drag racing. For example, in the Fast and Furious movies, while they drive cars in all kinds of ways, the obsession is about a "10 second car", which is a straight-line 1/4 mile measurement. Also in the US, there's an even larger group of car buyers who will never drag race their cars, but like knowing that the car they just bought is excellent in some way.
- denzil_correa 10y agoHow do these electric cars compare against Tesla?
- Brakenshire 10y agoThe i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.
- kangman 10y agoNot a fan of the design though. I'm sure it's functional but to my eyes it looks more frankencar than daily driver.
- antoniuschan99 10y agoonly other one that looks decent is the e-golf and focus. but not a fan of hatchbacks
- Reason077 10y agoI think the i3 is one of the coolest looking small cars around. It is distinctive, and the designers clearly made a choice to go for a design that would get noticed. I do think it looks better in all-black, rather than the two-tone colors. It's easily one of the most popular EVs here in the UK (along with the Tesla, Renault Zoe, and Nissan Leaf). Very nice to drive with a stylish, comfortable, minimalist, premium-quality interior. BMW's software does let it down, though - at least when compared to a Tesla. But still, i'd argue if you want an EV and can't afford a Tesla, it's the best option available right now (at least until the Bolt is released).
- nradov 10y agoNo, for the latest i3 BMW only claims a range of 114 miles. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN_US/the-new-2017-bmw-i3-94-ah-:-more-range-paired-to-high-level-dynamic-performance?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN...
- rsync 10y ago"Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars." Audi has a A3-etron which is not an electric car. Maybe they have some $500k etron-R8 but I am not sure if they ever built that. BMW has the i3 which is kind of interesting, in a low-production-run, dip-your-toe-in-the-market kind of way. i8 is not an electric car. Some hybrids. Who cares. Volkswagen has the e-golf which, in a sense, is more progress than the others since it's an actual VM car that actual people buy and is actually electric. It's not a car I would buy, but again - it's not a cutesy test market car and it's not a half-assed hybrid, so kudos to VW. I don't know anything about Peugeot. Probably hybrids so who cares. In conclusion: We're in the same place we've been for 9-12 years: CEO of Audi/BMW/Porsche/Merc announce a major electric car initiative with consumer models (6 years from now) and a sexy concept car at a trade show. Then nothing happens. Then three years later, repeat. Over and over and over.
- __michaelg 10y ago> I don't know anything about Peugeot. Probably hybrids so who cares. YTD in Germany, Renault sold twice as many purely electric cars (1836 Zoes) as Tesla (978 Model S and 56 Model X.) Source: https://www.goingelectric.de/zulassungszahlen/2016/ https://www.goingelectric.de/zulassungszahlen/2016/ (in German only, sorry; data is coming from Germany's DOT)
- Reason077 10y agoHe was probably thinking of Renault, not Peugeot. The Renault Zoe is one of the most popular EVs in Europe. (Why? It looks cool, drives well, and it's cheap!) I don't think Peugeot have done anything much notable in EVs recently.
- dabeeeenster 10y agoCompletely agree (I'm also European). When Porsche unveiled the Mission E, they made spec comparisons to the Tesla Model S. But the Mission E is a concept, slated for 2020! VW/Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes need to take a long hard look at themselves. The market is changing way faster than they expected IMO. Just sell a bloody 250 mile range car I can buy for £25k. That's it. It's not hard. Do it, now. Not in 3 years. Now.
- zyx321 10y ago>It's not hard. If it's so easy why don't you do it? Let me guess, you've never designed, built, or shipped any physical product. You're like a first-year art student 'designing' the next iPhone in a 3D rendering program (Half as thick, with twice the battery life! Indestructible edge-to-edge screen!)
- alimbada 10y agoIt's not hard for existing car manufacturers...
- 0xFFC 10y agoI see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget. Update: And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to work on something revolutionary when they are market leaders) until some guy stepped in and challeged them seriously.
- zyx321 10y agoAnd they evidently are working on it. But to say "release it now, don't make me wait 5 years" is beyond ignorant.
- nervousvarun 10y ago
- Maarten88 10y agoAgree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car from the ground up (including the software that's running in components from suppliers, like batteries) for that.
- reacweb 10y agoYes. All the stories I ear about software developed by traditional car makers confirm your point. Traditional car makers produce very bad software and have very bad organisation for software development.
- steejk 10y agoTo a certain extent, this comes from historically creating safety-critical software which is an entirely different process compared to what is done for web apps etc. I don't think Tesla are as robust with their development processes, but they are able to make up for it with over-the-air updates.
- reacweb 10y agoI have worked for nuclear domain and for aeronautical domain. These are domains where safety critical software is understood. AFAIK, software is not understood in car industry. It looks like they compensate poor programming by more testing.
- nojvek 10y agoYou should see Toyota entune. New RAV4 SE, awesome car, tons of safety and sensors. Garbage software. I think car makes just don't realize how big of a role, great software plays in how you feel about a car.
- valuegram 10y ago
- rottyguy 10y agoTheir exit strategy is probably much like Jet so you can't really blame them.
- sljkdjaldjo 10y agoLook at it from a different angle: They have invested billions in 'traditional' combustion engines, gear-boxes etc. They are earning billions with that technology. Now image a board meeting and you are the guy asking for all the R&D money such that you cannibalise the cash cow. They don't target early adopters but the mass market and that's not where you/we want it to be. I believe that's the reason why their A engineers still work on the 'old' stuff.
- nwah1 10y agoThat's the classic "Innovator's Dilemma."
- agumonkey 10y agoI've heard German brands mock the self driving marketing, seen as irresponsible to them, not the vehicle engineering side. But I may be wrong.