7 ms·

I'm curious - and surprised nobody seems to have mentioned or asked - what happens to all the sailors working aboard the ships, which are now stranded offshore?

I'm curious - and surprised nobody seems to have mentioned or asked - what happens to all the sailors working aboard the ships, which are now stranded offshore? Do they continue working aboard, knowing that they probably won't be paid (because the company is bankrupt)? What's morale like? Can they leave, and how would they logistically? What kind of laws and rights (if any) apply to them in these circumstances? It's funny to me to be thinking about how our Christmas may be "ruined", meanwhile hundreds or thousands of workers may be out of jobs and effectively indefinitely stranded at sea.

bigiain 10y ago
I suspect they're all polishing up their "Our incredible journey" blog posts... ;-)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cyberferret 10y ago
I wondered about that too. What if they all decided to simply abandon ship and head for land, leaving a ship to flounder and possibly become a hazard to other vessels or cause an environmental problem when it crashes into a reef or similar?
- GavinMcG 10y ago
  The officers, at the very least, would be criminally liable.
  - foobarian 10y ago
    But suppose they ran out of food. And suppose there was no shuttle from the ship due to owner going bankrupt. I think they could probably call a mayday signal and get rescued by some other vessel.
    - PeterisP 10y ago
      They can and will obtain supplies and food at no cost (essentially, with the ship and cargo as collateral) but they can't really abandon it. Do note that calling mayday gives the rescuing vessel significant rights to the ship and cargo. If your ship is not at risk of sinking, that would be a really expensive way to solve a comparably minor problem, ordering a daily helicopter delivery from the closest McDonalds would be much cheaper.
      - butbroski 10y ago
        What happens to the ship isn't really the crew's problem. Eating? Paying rent? These are the crew's problem. You can't seriously expect them to prioritize the employer that isn't paying/feeding them over their own well-being.
        PeterisP 10y ago
        It is their problem; they will get paid in full by staying on ship (no matter what happens to their employer) but will forfeit that pay by abandoning the ship, and for the officers, there is the abovementioned criminal liability if the abandoned ship causes any harm (e.g. by leaking chemicals from cargo).
        jpatokal 10y ago
        Not following you here: who exactly is going to pay them if their employer is bankrupt, which is the case here?
        PeterisP 10y ago
        They're sitting on a ship + cargo that is far more valuable than their outstanding pay, and legally they have a priority claim over all of that. While the cargo is owned by others, and the ship may be sold during bankruptcy, but maritime law prescribes that none of them can get their stuff until the crew has been paid in full; so in essence they can (and will) hold these billions of dollars of goods as hostage. $16b / 66 Hanjin ships means that an average ship will have cargo $250 million worth, and if anyone wants to receive that cargo, they'll find a way to pay the outstanding wages, which is, rounding to whole millions, approximately 0. They can also get food and 'maintenance fuel' (enough for running the internal systems, not the huge amount required for main engines) with the ship/cargo as effective collateral, even though they're not the owners - it's the owners legal responsibility to supply that, the crew is authorised to run up a bill and the owner (the new post-bankruptcy owner) will have to pay that or get the ship seized until they do. The main trouble of these seamen is that it will take an unknown amount of time to get this settled, not that they'd not get paid for these months.
  - chii 10y ago
    how can it be criminal when it's not you who instigated the issue in the first place? It should be criminal on the upper management imho.
    - zrail 10y ago
      There's nothing a captain can do about a bankrupt company. There is definitely a lot a captain can do about a ship that they've been given exclusive control over. That's part of being a captain: your sole responsibility is to get the ship where it's supposed to go without running into things or sinking or injuring the crew.
    - josscrowcroft 10y ago
      I recall one major case (the Costa Concordia) in which the captain abandoned the sinking ship, survived, and later faced prosecution. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371
aquark 10y ago
The BBC ran a story on a ship stuck off Singapore: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37335614 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37335614
- josscrowcroft 10y ago
  That's just the kind of coverage I hoped for, thank you.

bigiain 10y ago

I suspect they're all polishing up their "Our incredible journey" blog posts... ;-)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cyberferret 10y ago

I wondered about that too. What if they all decided to simply abandon ship and head for land, leaving a ship to flounder and possibly become a hazard to other vessels or cause an environmental problem when it crashes into a reef or similar?

GavinMcG 10y ago
The officers, at the very least, would be criminally liable.
- foobarian 10y ago
  But suppose they ran out of food. And suppose there was no shuttle from the ship due to owner going bankrupt. I think they could probably call a mayday signal and get rescued by some other vessel.
  - PeterisP 10y ago
    They can and will obtain supplies and food at no cost (essentially, with the ship and cargo as collateral) but they can't really abandon it. Do note that calling mayday gives the rescuing vessel significant rights to the ship and cargo. If your ship is not at risk of sinking, that would be a really expensive way to solve a comparably minor problem, ordering a daily helicopter delivery from the closest McDonalds would be much cheaper.
    - butbroski 10y ago
      What happens to the ship isn't really the crew's problem. Eating? Paying rent? These are the crew's problem. You can't seriously expect them to prioritize the employer that isn't paying/feeding them over their own well-being.
      - PeterisP 10y ago
        It is their problem; they will get paid in full by staying on ship (no matter what happens to their employer) but will forfeit that pay by abandoning the ship, and for the officers, there is the abovementioned criminal liability if the abandoned ship causes any harm (e.g. by leaking chemicals from cargo).
        jpatokal 10y ago
        Not following you here: who exactly is going to pay them if their employer is bankrupt, which is the case here?
        PeterisP 10y ago
        They're sitting on a ship + cargo that is far more valuable than their outstanding pay, and legally they have a priority claim over all of that. While the cargo is owned by others, and the ship may be sold during bankruptcy, but maritime law prescribes that none of them can get their stuff until the crew has been paid in full; so in essence they can (and will) hold these billions of dollars of goods as hostage. $16b / 66 Hanjin ships means that an average ship will have cargo $250 million worth, and if anyone wants to receive that cargo, they'll find a way to pay the outstanding wages, which is, rounding to whole millions, approximately 0. They can also get food and 'maintenance fuel' (enough for running the internal systems, not the huge amount required for main engines) with the ship/cargo as effective collateral, even though they're not the owners - it's the owners legal responsibility to supply that, the crew is authorised to run up a bill and the owner (the new post-bankruptcy owner) will have to pay that or get the ship seized until they do. The main trouble of these seamen is that it will take an unknown amount of time to get this settled, not that they'd not get paid for these months.
- chii 10y ago
  how can it be criminal when it's not you who instigated the issue in the first place? It should be criminal on the upper management imho.
  - zrail 10y ago
    There's nothing a captain can do about a bankrupt company. There is definitely a lot a captain can do about a ship that they've been given exclusive control over. That's part of being a captain: your sole responsibility is to get the ship where it's supposed to go without running into things or sinking or injuring the crew.
  - josscrowcroft 10y ago
    I recall one major case (the Costa Concordia) in which the captain abandoned the sinking ship, survived, and later faced prosecution. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371

aquark 10y ago

The BBC ran a story on a ship stuck off Singapore: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37335614 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37335614

josscrowcroft 10y ago
That's just the kind of coverage I hoped for, thank you.