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Good! Time to move to telegram! And delete your facebook account! And uninstall whatsapp! I expect nothing less from HN.

subliminalpanda 10y ago
I don't care too much for Facebook but WhatsApp has become essential to communicate with almost everyone I know.
sroecker 10y ago
Please do not use Telegram. It' closed source and uses some half-baked crypto. Signal is open source and is actually end-to-end encrypted.
- romanovcode 10y ago
  Exactly. Not to mention if it becomes popular it will get sold to megacorp in a heartbeat.
- watwatwatwat 10y ago
  I'll give signal another try, last time I couldn't register.
- unicornporn 10y ago
  Wire[1] is also an excellent option. Unlike Open Whisper Systems they wont hang you from a tree for building a third party app. Signal wont work without Gapps or Google Play Services on your Android phone and Google Chrome for desktop. [1] https://wire.com/ https://wire.com/
  - tdkl 10y ago
    I tried Wire after this WhatsApp news came out initially and brought about 10 people (friends/family) to it. They're satisfied how it works.
  - codethief 10y ago
    Signal does work with MicroG (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/), an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      But that still requires using the Google Play Services library in the Signal APK, still doing analytics.
- bwindels 10y ago
  No windows phone client :-(
- lmm 10y ago
  Signal is pseudo-open-source but will not allow you to use it except via the closed-source google play services, so I still wouldn't have confidence in it.
  - glogla 10y ago
    Yes. Also, on what payroll is Moxie now? He was working with Facebook on WhatsApp and then worked with Google on their new messaging app.
  - codethief 10y ago
    This is incorrect. There is an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/) and Signal works beautifully with it.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      So the Signal APK does NOT depend on the Google Cloud Messaging library anymore, which pulls in 40k LOC of analytics?
    - claudius 10y ago
      And wherefrom can you get Signal except for the Google Play store? I was looking for it a while ago to install on my phone but only found two other projects which were threatened by moxie and then shut down.
      - aorth 10y ago
        I compile my own binaries. Not too bad actually.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  A lot of people here use twitter. Why must things be provably sure to have any value?
- eggie 10y ago
  Telegrams clients (and the e2e encryption) are open source. For instance: https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram Curious if you know why the crypto is half-baked. Has it been broken? edit: found Signal server, I think: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure-Server https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure-Server Nice it's out there. This will help Signal live a long time.
khabaal 10y ago
I would not entrust my data to telegram either. Enrolling your own crypto protocol [MTProto] is, in my opinion, something which you should not do. They also have a nice privacy policy, which is worth looking at: https://telegram.org/privacy https://telegram.org/privacy
- raverbashing 10y ago
  > Enrolling your own crypto protocol [MTProto] is, in my opinion, something which you should not do Signal did the same thing. The question is who's more capable and builds a more secure system
unicornporn 10y ago
If you've used Telegram for a while you will notice that in practice no one uses secret chats because these chats don't sync between devices. Your "non-secret" chats are readable by Pavel and anyone he wishes to share them with. I guess it's fine if you trust Pavel's good intentions. I don't[1]. [1] https://www.instagram.com/p/-MrPWGr7aL/ https://www.instagram.com/p/-MrPWGr7aL/
- pawadu 10y ago
  Holy shit, Pavel sounds very much like JM Le Pen.
  - takdi 10y ago
    But unfortunately he's right
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    I don't know what I would feel worst about: being compared to Merkel or Le Pen
eatbitseveryday 10y ago
There is a lot of hype over encrypted chat programs. Telegram's encryption is not end-to-end unless you opt into "Secret Chats"[1] and many claim their crypto is not secure[2,3] as they rolled their own[4]. The latest Google chat app Allo also backed away from defaulting to end-to-end encryption for all messages as it lessens the quality of their auto-assistant[5]. The Axolotl protocol (developed by Moxie and Trevor[6]) is available in Signal and was later adopted by WhatsApp. Signal has far fewer features than other chat applications, and people aren't clamoring much about it; I would guess because many people place features > crypto. Wire (wire.com) uses this protocol as well[7]. WhatsApp being part of Facebook has already called into question their handling of privacy[8], the feature they were originally advertising as their main strength. [1] https://telegram.org/faq#secret-chats https://telegram.org/faq#secret-chats [2] http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure#49802 http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegra... [3] http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-cryptanalysis-contest http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-crypta... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6916860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6916860 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547130 [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm [7] https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/download/ https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/downl... [8] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/technology/relaxing-privacy-vow-whatsapp-to-share-some-data-with-facebook.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/technology/relaxing-privac...
- danieldk 10y ago
  Still hoping that iMessage will switch to Axolotl rather than their broken E2E design.
  - tw04 10y ago
    Given that it's not multiplatform it's kind of irrelevant. It's not a replacement for any of the others. I mean, yay for better encryption, but it's not going to help anyone on Whatsapp today.
  - kuschku 10y ago
reitanqild 10y ago
Why do you feel for insulting all of us at once? HN is the most open, thoughtful (and honest-but-careful) public forum I know of and I intend to do my part to keep it that way.

subliminalpanda 10y ago

I don't care too much for Facebook but WhatsApp has become essential to communicate with almost everyone I know.

sroecker 10y ago

Please do not use Telegram. It' closed source and uses some half-baked crypto. Signal is open source and is actually end-to-end encrypted.

romanovcode 10y ago
Exactly. Not to mention if it becomes popular it will get sold to megacorp in a heartbeat.
watwatwatwat 10y ago
I'll give signal another try, last time I couldn't register.
unicornporn 10y ago
Wire[1] is also an excellent option. Unlike Open Whisper Systems they wont hang you from a tree for building a third party app. Signal wont work without Gapps or Google Play Services on your Android phone and Google Chrome for desktop. [1] https://wire.com/ https://wire.com/
- tdkl 10y ago
  I tried Wire after this WhatsApp news came out initially and brought about 10 people (friends/family) to it. They're satisfied how it works.
- codethief 10y ago
  Signal does work with MicroG (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/), an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    But that still requires using the Google Play Services library in the Signal APK, still doing analytics.
bwindels 10y ago
No windows phone client :-(
lmm 10y ago
Signal is pseudo-open-source but will not allow you to use it except via the closed-source google play services, so I still wouldn't have confidence in it.
- glogla 10y ago
  Yes. Also, on what payroll is Moxie now? He was working with Facebook on WhatsApp and then worked with Google on their new messaging app.
- codethief 10y ago
  This is incorrect. There is an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services (https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/) and Signal works beautifully with it.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    So the Signal APK does NOT depend on the Google Cloud Messaging library anymore, which pulls in 40k LOC of analytics?
  - claudius 10y ago
    And wherefrom can you get Signal except for the Google Play store? I was looking for it a while ago to install on my phone but only found two other projects which were threatened by moxie and then shut down.
    - aorth 10y ago
      I compile my own binaries. Not too bad actually.
reitanqild 10y ago
A lot of people here use twitter. Why must things be provably sure to have any value?
eggie 10y ago
Telegrams clients (and the e2e encryption) are open source. For instance: https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram Curious if you know why the crypto is half-baked. Has it been broken? edit: found Signal server, I think: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure-Server https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure-Server Nice it's out there. This will help Signal live a long time.

khabaal 10y ago

I would not entrust my data to telegram either. Enrolling your own crypto protocol [MTProto] is, in my opinion, something which you should not do. They also have a nice privacy policy, which is worth looking at: https://telegram.org/privacy https://telegram.org/privacy

raverbashing 10y ago
> Enrolling your own crypto protocol [MTProto] is, in my opinion, something which you should not do Signal did the same thing. The question is who's more capable and builds a more secure system

unicornporn 10y ago

If you've used Telegram for a while you will notice that in practice no one uses secret chats because these chats don't sync between devices. Your "non-secret" chats are readable by Pavel and anyone he wishes to share them with. I guess it's fine if you trust Pavel's good intentions. I don't[1]. [1] https://www.instagram.com/p/-MrPWGr7aL/ https://www.instagram.com/p/-MrPWGr7aL/

pawadu 10y ago
Holy shit, Pavel sounds very much like JM Le Pen.
- takdi 10y ago
  But unfortunately he's right
- reitanqild 10y ago
  I don't know what I would feel worst about: being compared to Merkel or Le Pen

eatbitseveryday 10y ago

There is a lot of hype over encrypted chat programs. Telegram's encryption is not end-to-end unless you opt into "Secret Chats"[1] and many claim their crypto is not secure[2,3] as they rolled their own[4]. The latest Google chat app Allo also backed away from defaulting to end-to-end encryption for all messages as it lessens the quality of their auto-assistant[5]. The Axolotl protocol (developed by Moxie and Trevor[6]) is available in Signal and was later adopted by WhatsApp. Signal has far fewer features than other chat applications, and people aren't clamoring much about it; I would guess because many people place features > crypto. Wire (wire.com) uses this protocol as well[7]. WhatsApp being part of Facebook has already called into question their handling of privacy[8], the feature they were originally advertising as their main strength. [1] https://telegram.org/faq#secret-chats https://telegram.org/faq#secret-chats [2] http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure#49802 http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegra... [3] http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-cryptanalysis-contest http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-crypta... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6916860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6916860 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547130 [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm [7] https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/download/ https://wire.com/resource/Wire%20Security%20Whitepaper/downl... [8] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/technology/relaxing-privacy-vow-whatsapp-to-share-some-data-with-facebook.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/technology/relaxing-privac...

danieldk 10y ago
Still hoping that iMessage will switch to Axolotl rather than their broken E2E design.
- tw04 10y ago
  Given that it's not multiplatform it's kind of irrelevant. It's not a replacement for any of the others. I mean, yay for better encryption, but it's not going to help anyone on Whatsapp today.
- kuschku 10y ago

reitanqild 10y ago

Why do you feel for insulting all of us at once? HN is the most open, thoughtful (and honest-but-careful) public forum I know of and I intend to do my part to keep it that way.