5 ms·

For the Tesla comment, what more could you expect from them right now? If you have auto pilot on your hands have to be on the wheel or it vibrates and then it s

For the Tesla comment, what more could you expect from them right now? If you have auto pilot on your hands have to be on the wheel or it vibrates and then it starts slowing down e eventually since it knows it's not safe. People can work around any system for this, but stuff like this makes it have to do it consciously. Seems pretty reasonable on Tesla's part.

Domenic_S 10y ago
Not totally accurate. You actually get two warnings before autopilot disengages. You have to put a hand (not hands) on the wheel at certain intervals, but you certainly can be hands-off a majority of the time.
ben_jones 10y ago
They'd never do it but I imagine a system that was loud, flashy, and embarrassing, that activated when autopilot is misused (i.e. auto-pilot is demanding user intervention and intervention is not given) would be most effective in incentivizing drivers to change their behavior. I.e. a loud beeping noise that annoyed pedestrians and other drivers until you took the wheel. Kind of like how accidentally triggering your car alarm in the parking lot will lead to a very hasty correction on your part.
- Domenic_S 10y ago
  The car already cuts the stereo for a moment and beeps at you. If you ignore the first warning, it mutes the stereo and beeps until you resolve the situation.
  - jacalata 10y ago
    It sounds like they are suggesting something more like 'cuts the stereo and begins announcing on internal and external speakers that the driver is not paying attention and the car will slow to a stop in 5,4,3,2,...'.
rhino369 10y ago
They don't have to implement SAE 2 and if their implementation isn't safe, doing the best they can might not be good enough. I think there may be a fundamental flaw with lane keeping. It removes the driver from doing anything but still requires constant vigilance. That might be asking too much. My ADD is too strong to wach the road without having to do any part of the driving. I suspect a lot of people are the same way. If most drivers are just keeping their hand on the wheel while day dreaming, Telsa should be forced to just disable the feature until the tech is ready for Level 3. Or use the Level 2 tech as a backup only.
- Animats 10y ago
  There's a good chance that's what happens. Auto-braking (level 1) is likely to become standard, like anti-skid braking. Full automatic driving (levels 3-5) will be options. Semi-automatic steering (level 2) may disappear as the higher levels start to work. The shared responsibility between driver and control system is too messy at level 2.
- lotu 10y ago
  Heck I refuse to use cruise control at all because it makes me get board. My personal solution to avoid boardemn while driving is to drive faster. Clearlly I am not a safe driver but, I'm going to need full automation to help me out.
swsieber 10y ago
You could expect them to not call it autopilot, and instead call it lane keeping, like it really is. The name does a really good job at setting a terrible expectation, almost to the point of undoing any attention grabbing mechanism to keep users engaged.
- Animats 10y ago
  The NHTSA is hinting in that direction, indicating that manufacturers must clearly distinguish between driver assistance systems (levels 1 and 2) and real self driving (levels 3 - 5). There will probably be some standard on this. There has to be; consider what happens when car rental fleets start having some of these features. There was an accident with a Volvo where someone was showing off the pedestrian safety system, and hit a pedestrian. It turned out they hadn't purchased the pedestrian safety system.[1] Something is needed to prevent problems like that. Then there's mode switching trouble. Classic problem with aircraft control systems. Tesla disengages the "autopilot" if the driver touches the brake. The trouble is that this also disables automatic braking, as the driver is assumed to now be in control. So tapping the brake without applying it fully in a hazardous situation causes a crash. All these driver behavior problems with shared control authority are hard. Maybe harder than going for level 3 and letting the automation do it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utWAoupo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utWAoupo
  - caf 10y ago
    It reminds me a little of the way in which airbags are always described as "SRS" (for "Supplementary Restraint System"), to try and make it clear that they're supposed to be used with seatbelts, not instead of them.
- mannykannot 10y ago
  The name is not the problem. Regardless of what you call it, once people find out empirically that their attention is not needed most of the time, even the most well-intentioned minds will wander.
- richardw 10y ago
mannykannot 10y ago
Having your hands on the wheel is not a reliable indicator that you are paying any attention and are ready to take control. An eye-tracking system might work.

Domenic_S 10y ago

Not totally accurate. You actually get two warnings before autopilot disengages. You have to put a hand (not hands) on the wheel at certain intervals, but you certainly can be hands-off a majority of the time.

ben_jones 10y ago

They'd never do it but I imagine a system that was loud, flashy, and embarrassing, that activated when autopilot is misused (i.e. auto-pilot is demanding user intervention and intervention is not given) would be most effective in incentivizing drivers to change their behavior. I.e. a loud beeping noise that annoyed pedestrians and other drivers until you took the wheel. Kind of like how accidentally triggering your car alarm in the parking lot will lead to a very hasty correction on your part.

Domenic_S 10y ago
The car already cuts the stereo for a moment and beeps at you. If you ignore the first warning, it mutes the stereo and beeps until you resolve the situation.
- jacalata 10y ago
  It sounds like they are suggesting something more like 'cuts the stereo and begins announcing on internal and external speakers that the driver is not paying attention and the car will slow to a stop in 5,4,3,2,...'.

rhino369 10y ago

They don't have to implement SAE 2 and if their implementation isn't safe, doing the best they can might not be good enough. I think there may be a fundamental flaw with lane keeping. It removes the driver from doing anything but still requires constant vigilance. That might be asking too much. My ADD is too strong to wach the road without having to do any part of the driving. I suspect a lot of people are the same way. If most drivers are just keeping their hand on the wheel while day dreaming, Telsa should be forced to just disable the feature until the tech is ready for Level 3. Or use the Level 2 tech as a backup only.

Animats 10y ago
There's a good chance that's what happens. Auto-braking (level 1) is likely to become standard, like anti-skid braking. Full automatic driving (levels 3-5) will be options. Semi-automatic steering (level 2) may disappear as the higher levels start to work. The shared responsibility between driver and control system is too messy at level 2.
lotu 10y ago
Heck I refuse to use cruise control at all because it makes me get board. My personal solution to avoid boardemn while driving is to drive faster. Clearlly I am not a safe driver but, I'm going to need full automation to help me out.

swsieber 10y ago

You could expect them to not call it autopilot, and instead call it lane keeping, like it really is. The name does a really good job at setting a terrible expectation, almost to the point of undoing any attention grabbing mechanism to keep users engaged.

Animats 10y ago
The NHTSA is hinting in that direction, indicating that manufacturers must clearly distinguish between driver assistance systems (levels 1 and 2) and real self driving (levels 3 - 5). There will probably be some standard on this. There has to be; consider what happens when car rental fleets start having some of these features. There was an accident with a Volvo where someone was showing off the pedestrian safety system, and hit a pedestrian. It turned out they hadn't purchased the pedestrian safety system.[1] Something is needed to prevent problems like that. Then there's mode switching trouble. Classic problem with aircraft control systems. Tesla disengages the "autopilot" if the driver touches the brake. The trouble is that this also disables automatic braking, as the driver is assumed to now be in control. So tapping the brake without applying it fully in a hazardous situation causes a crash. All these driver behavior problems with shared control authority are hard. Maybe harder than going for level 3 and letting the automation do it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utWAoupo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utWAoupo
- caf 10y ago
  It reminds me a little of the way in which airbags are always described as "SRS" (for "Supplementary Restraint System"), to try and make it clear that they're supposed to be used with seatbelts, not instead of them.
mannykannot 10y ago
The name is not the problem. Regardless of what you call it, once people find out empirically that their attention is not needed most of the time, even the most well-intentioned minds will wander.
richardw 10y ago

mannykannot 10y ago

Having your hands on the wheel is not a reliable indicator that you are paying any attention and are ready to take control. An eye-tracking system might work.