4 ms·

The wonders of socialism.

danharaj 10y ago
When people use Venezuela to criticize socialism, they always compare it to the most powerful, developed capitalist countries of the world. Look how poor and dysfunctional the failed state of Venezuela is compared to a capitalist country like the United States! When you compare Venezuela to those of its neighbors who are completely submitted to international capital and empire, capitalism doesn't seem so glamorous either.
- jdminhbg 10y ago
  Its neighbors seem pretty glamorous to Venezuelans, who pour by the tens of thousands into Colombia to buy basic groceries when the border is opened.
- marketanarchist 10y ago
  Even in comparison to their neighbors, they are doing poorly no? I think the best indicator would be how people are voting with their feet. Are people fleeing from Venezuela to its neighbors or the other way around?
  - santiagogo 10y ago
    The frontier was closed off for nearly over a year, but when last reopened nearly 132,000 people crossed on the first day. It's hard to know how many are just crossing over to buy groceries and how many will stay, but I read that the Colombian government estimates that roughly some 500,000 Venezuelans will illegally immigrate to Colombia during the next year, which is a worrisome number. As a Colombian I've personally seen how they've been clearly voting with their feet for the last 10 years, since they have no opportunities and are afraid of protesting against a government that kills and persecutes the opposition. http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-36817172 http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-36817172
- rjdevereux 10y ago
  East vs West Germany, and North vs South Korea are good examples of how different governments result in different standards of living.
nnq 10y ago
Sincere question: HOW? I mean, even if we assume a socialist economy is terribly inefficient, like operating at 50% of the efficiency a capitalist one, it still should be enough for sustaining a resource-rich country. WTF they are doing so wrong?! Are they under intense internal or external sabotage? Corruption is so bad? I mean, this is not some mid-African country with >50% of the population illiterate, bunch of horrible tropical diseases, plus children running around with guns and AIDS... A country like Venezuela should "kind of work" even with corruption and inefficient socialism! What the heck is going on there?
- tim333 10y ago
  The main thing is they don't believe in market prices at the moment. For example the official USD Bolivar rate is 10:1, the market rate is 1010:1. So you need some mining equipment imported? Either spend ages on sweet talking / bribing officials to get $ at the official rate or break the law. Result: oil production screwed. See also official food prices below production costs, empty stores and hunger. As an aside here's an article on how things have gone in Venez vs Chile since 1975. http://humanprogress.org/blog/5-ways-capitalist-chile-is-much-better-than-socialist-venezuela http://humanprogress.org/blog/5-ways-capitalist-chile-is-muc...
- ufo 10y ago
  A big factor is that oil prices tanked in 2014.
  - justincormack 10y ago
    no, it was in a very bad way before that.
    - topspin 10y ago
      This is 100% correct; the "oil prices" narrative is a very effective Media fig leaf deliberately used to obscure the clear consequences of command economics in Venezuela. The start of the nightmare in Venezuela began while Chavez was still alive. The oil price collapse has just made a terrible situation into a genuine atrocity; an entire generation of young is being stunted physically and mentally by the leftist politics of Venezuela. Actual starvation is being inflicted in the name of economic `justice.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3794086 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3794086

When people use Venezuela to criticize socialism, they always compare it to the most powerful, developed capitalist countries of the world. Look how poor and dysfunctional the failed state of Venezuela is compared to a capitalist country like the United States! When you compare Venezuela to those of its neighbors who are completely submitted to international capital and empire, capitalism doesn't seem so glamorous either.

jdminhbg 10y ago
Its neighbors seem pretty glamorous to Venezuelans, who pour by the tens of thousands into Colombia to buy basic groceries when the border is opened.
marketanarchist 10y ago
Even in comparison to their neighbors, they are doing poorly no? I think the best indicator would be how people are voting with their feet. Are people fleeing from Venezuela to its neighbors or the other way around?
- santiagogo 10y ago
  The frontier was closed off for nearly over a year, but when last reopened nearly 132,000 people crossed on the first day. It's hard to know how many are just crossing over to buy groceries and how many will stay, but I read that the Colombian government estimates that roughly some 500,000 Venezuelans will illegally immigrate to Colombia during the next year, which is a worrisome number. As a Colombian I've personally seen how they've been clearly voting with their feet for the last 10 years, since they have no opportunities and are afraid of protesting against a government that kills and persecutes the opposition. http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-36817172 http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-36817172
rjdevereux 10y ago
East vs West Germany, and North vs South Korea are good examples of how different governments result in different standards of living.

nnq 10y ago

Sincere question: HOW? I mean, even if we assume a socialist economy is terribly inefficient, like operating at 50% of the efficiency a capitalist one, it still should be enough for sustaining a resource-rich country. WTF they are doing so wrong?! Are they under intense internal or external sabotage? Corruption is so bad? I mean, this is not some mid-African country with >50% of the population illiterate, bunch of horrible tropical diseases, plus children running around with guns and AIDS... A country like Venezuela should "kind of work" even with corruption and inefficient socialism! What the heck is going on there?

tim333 10y ago
The main thing is they don't believe in market prices at the moment. For example the official USD Bolivar rate is 10:1, the market rate is 1010:1. So you need some mining equipment imported? Either spend ages on sweet talking / bribing officials to get $ at the official rate or break the law. Result: oil production screwed. See also official food prices below production costs, empty stores and hunger. As an aside here's an article on how things have gone in Venez vs Chile since 1975. http://humanprogress.org/blog/5-ways-capitalist-chile-is-much-better-than-socialist-venezuela http://humanprogress.org/blog/5-ways-capitalist-chile-is-muc...
ufo 10y ago
A big factor is that oil prices tanked in 2014.
- justincormack 10y ago
  no, it was in a very bad way before that.
  - topspin 10y ago
    This is 100% correct; the "oil prices" narrative is a very effective Media fig leaf deliberately used to obscure the clear consequences of command economics in Venezuela. The start of the nightmare in Venezuela began while Chavez was still alive. The oil price collapse has just made a terrible situation into a genuine atrocity; an entire generation of young is being stunted physically and mentally by the leftist politics of Venezuela. Actual starvation is being inflicted in the name of economic `justice.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3794086 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3794086