5 ms·

You'll be more or less forced to upgrade at some point. Chrome, Slack, and pretty much everything else stopped supporting 10.8 this year. Even CLI apps like Key

by rch 10y ago

You'll be more or less forced to upgrade at some point. Chrome, Slack, and pretty much everything else stopped supporting 10.8 this year. Even CLI apps like Keybase refuse to run.

baldfat 10y ago
AS an outsider looking in. What is holding a developer from moving to Linux? I don't understand the draw of OS X for developers especially the past few years. These yearly updates seem to break everyone's workflow for a while.
- mackey 10y ago
  This has gotten better since they started public betas. It seems like people that work on developer tools are more prepared.
- rch 10y ago
  I've been actively looking for a MBP-quality laptop that shows up on my doorstep running Fedora for about 2 years, but at this point all I'd need is a significant uptick in hardware to justify starting fresh. I'd also point out how frustrating it is that Linux laptops tend to be on the cheap side (on par with a 13" Air), or generally massive, plastic, and loud.
  - nimbleDT 10y ago
    I have both the latest Dell XPS 13 and the Dell XPS 15, either of which would meet your requirements.
    - rch 10y ago
      Possibly... Do you have Fedora running on the 15? ...not required, just curious.
      - nimbleDT 10y ago
        Yup, works flawlessly on both, although I just got the 15 and haven't messed around with switching between GPUs.
  - itchynosedev 10y ago
    I don't need the latest and the greatest, but a good 4:3 or 16:10 screen and linux compatibility. I haven't found the good combination and bought a new MBP and still happy with it.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops I like these ALOT. They look much better in person.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Well, the linux Systemd nonsense is annoying, but I just run OpenRC, and ignore it for the most part.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    Wait? What about Systemd BESIDES philosophy conflicts is annoying? Especially for develops. (I don't want to start that war again but I am curious what real world issue someone is talking about. I see systemd as awesome for developers #1 and users #2.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      The default kill on logout behaviour is a pisser, and relearning the new, more complicated way to do a wide variety of things (set hostname, automount, timed jobs, etc) is annoying, and the whole thing is a massive attack surface. But it's certainly not unusable. It's not a good thing, by any stretch, it's a pretty face over a horrific monstrosity, but it's usable. But the fight between the systemd/non-systemd camps, especially in the form of docker/rkt, is a real pain for both sides.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >AS an outsider looking in. What is holding a developer from moving to Linux? I don't understand the draw of OS X for developers especially the past few years I've used UNIX for ages, started on Sun OS (pre-Solaris), HP-UX, have used several early Linux distros, RedHat, SuSE, Debian, Mandrake (!), FreeBSD for a year or so, and now I use Ubuntu for personal stuff and Centos professionally. I wouldn't use a Linux loaded laptop. What OS X has? Great hardware (Linus himself used to praise the Air for example -- which he used as a personal machine until 2014, and complained why no other company could make something like that -- he now uses a hi-end Chromebook). No messing to get it to sleep, work with external monitors, including dual 4K, import camera photos and videos, work with new RAW formats, external peripherals etc. And by no messing I mean "an order of magnitude less messing that those things take in Linux". Certified UNIX with full terminal access, bash, classic userland, etc. Several package managers (brew, macports etc) to get 99% of anything one will need in Linux. And make && make install etc usually just works too, if one is so inclined. Runs Linux on a VM just fine -- why would a developer pollute their OS with development environment stuff like installing DBs, compilers etc directly? And if you don't run it directly, then OS X is as good as Linux to host your developing VMs -- or SSH to some remote host. A full, well thought out UI, even if it's not perfect. Even from 10.1 to 10.12, it never has the sudden "let's change everything and break everybody just because we can" turns that Gnome and KDE have had (I've used KDE but stopped with the 3 to 4 transition -- now I just run bare Linux or when I need a UI Linux whatever comes with Ubuntu). Ability to run basic proprietary apps: Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, etc. Lots of developers need those too, and I, for one, sure do for my sideprojects. >These yearly updates seem to break everyone's workflow for a while. No, it's just the vocal minority. Have used OS X since 2003, using it for programming (JS, Python, Java, Go, PHP, some C), video editing and music (various DAWs), and never had my workflow break, and I usually jump at a new OS the first day it comes out. The worst case was having to wait 1 month for Cubase 8.5 to support 10.11 -- but that's the fault of Steinberg for milking their customers, as other DAWs I have worked just fine, or had updates within the week or so. Linux changes break just as many workflows (percentage wise) but there are so fewer (1/10 or so) Linux desktop users and even they so fragmented (different DEs, desktops, WMs, etc) that their laments are not really heard. Of course most major tech outlets hardly ever publish Linux related stuff in the first place, in contrast with Apple stuff that helps get eyeballs...
soccerdave 10y ago
I would be more concerned about security updates. Does Apple still publish security updates for those old versions or even for 10.10 since El Capitan has been out for a year?
- AdamN 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure Mountain Lion no longer gets security patches. They're kind of vague about it. Basically, they only really support the previous release of OSX (macOS) and that's it.

by rch 10y ago

You'll be more or less forced to upgrade at some point. Chrome, Slack, and pretty much everything else stopped supporting 10.8 this year. Even CLI apps like Keybase refuse to run.

baldfat 10y ago

AS an outsider looking in. What is holding a developer from moving to Linux? I don't understand the draw of OS X for developers especially the past few years. These yearly updates seem to break everyone's workflow for a while.

mackey 10y ago
This has gotten better since they started public betas. It seems like people that work on developer tools are more prepared.
rch 10y ago
I've been actively looking for a MBP-quality laptop that shows up on my doorstep running Fedora for about 2 years, but at this point all I'd need is a significant uptick in hardware to justify starting fresh. I'd also point out how frustrating it is that Linux laptops tend to be on the cheap side (on par with a 13" Air), or generally massive, plastic, and loud.
- nimbleDT 10y ago
  I have both the latest Dell XPS 13 and the Dell XPS 15, either of which would meet your requirements.
  - rch 10y ago
    Possibly... Do you have Fedora running on the 15? ...not required, just curious.
    - nimbleDT 10y ago
      Yup, works flawlessly on both, although I just got the 15 and haven't messed around with switching between GPUs.
- itchynosedev 10y ago
  I don't need the latest and the greatest, but a good 4:3 or 16:10 screen and linux compatibility. I haven't found the good combination and bought a new MBP and still happy with it.
- baldfat 10y ago
  https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops I like these ALOT. They look much better in person.
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Well, the linux Systemd nonsense is annoying, but I just run OpenRC, and ignore it for the most part.
- baldfat 10y ago
  Wait? What about Systemd BESIDES philosophy conflicts is annoying? Especially for develops. (I don't want to start that war again but I am curious what real world issue someone is talking about. I see systemd as awesome for developers #1 and users #2.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    The default kill on logout behaviour is a pisser, and relearning the new, more complicated way to do a wide variety of things (set hostname, automount, timed jobs, etc) is annoying, and the whole thing is a massive attack surface. But it's certainly not unusable. It's not a good thing, by any stretch, it's a pretty face over a horrific monstrosity, but it's usable. But the fight between the systemd/non-systemd camps, especially in the form of docker/rkt, is a real pain for both sides.
coldtea 10y ago
>AS an outsider looking in. What is holding a developer from moving to Linux? I don't understand the draw of OS X for developers especially the past few years I've used UNIX for ages, started on Sun OS (pre-Solaris), HP-UX, have used several early Linux distros, RedHat, SuSE, Debian, Mandrake (!), FreeBSD for a year or so, and now I use Ubuntu for personal stuff and Centos professionally. I wouldn't use a Linux loaded laptop. What OS X has? Great hardware (Linus himself used to praise the Air for example -- which he used as a personal machine until 2014, and complained why no other company could make something like that -- he now uses a hi-end Chromebook). No messing to get it to sleep, work with external monitors, including dual 4K, import camera photos and videos, work with new RAW formats, external peripherals etc. And by no messing I mean "an order of magnitude less messing that those things take in Linux". Certified UNIX with full terminal access, bash, classic userland, etc. Several package managers (brew, macports etc) to get 99% of anything one will need in Linux. And make && make install etc usually just works too, if one is so inclined. Runs Linux on a VM just fine -- why would a developer pollute their OS with development environment stuff like installing DBs, compilers etc directly? And if you don't run it directly, then OS X is as good as Linux to host your developing VMs -- or SSH to some remote host. A full, well thought out UI, even if it's not perfect. Even from 10.1 to 10.12, it never has the sudden "let's change everything and break everybody just because we can" turns that Gnome and KDE have had (I've used KDE but stopped with the 3 to 4 transition -- now I just run bare Linux or when I need a UI Linux whatever comes with Ubuntu). Ability to run basic proprietary apps: Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, etc. Lots of developers need those too, and I, for one, sure do for my sideprojects. >These yearly updates seem to break everyone's workflow for a while. No, it's just the vocal minority. Have used OS X since 2003, using it for programming (JS, Python, Java, Go, PHP, some C), video editing and music (various DAWs), and never had my workflow break, and I usually jump at a new OS the first day it comes out. The worst case was having to wait 1 month for Cubase 8.5 to support 10.11 -- but that's the fault of Steinberg for milking their customers, as other DAWs I have worked just fine, or had updates within the week or so. Linux changes break just as many workflows (percentage wise) but there are so fewer (1/10 or so) Linux desktop users and even they so fragmented (different DEs, desktops, WMs, etc) that their laments are not really heard. Of course most major tech outlets hardly ever publish Linux related stuff in the first place, in contrast with Apple stuff that helps get eyeballs...

soccerdave 10y ago

I would be more concerned about security updates. Does Apple still publish security updates for those old versions or even for 10.10 since El Capitan has been out for a year?

AdamN 10y ago
I'm pretty sure Mountain Lion no longer gets security patches. They're kind of vague about it. Basically, they only really support the previous release of OSX (macOS) and that's it.