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I found this essay interesting: >It’s not “creepy” if he’s hot. I freely admit it. When a very attractive stranger approaches me and tells me I’m beautiful, it

by Jerry2 10y ago

I found this essay interesting: >It’s not “creepy” if he’s hot. I freely admit it. When a very attractive stranger approaches me and tells me I’m beautiful, it brightens my day. When a guy who is short, fat or balding does it, it makes my skin crawl no matter how tactful he is about it. I just want him to go away. I’m not alone in feeling this way. Most women feel the same, but hide the true extent of it when the guys are around. http://theplacetorant.com/ugly-creepy-guys/ http://theplacetorant.com/ugly-creepy-guys/

millstone 10y ago
I know this was a hyperbolic rant, but it's deplorable how this author literally dehumanizes men. The essay may be interesting, but it's mostly just monstrous.
- acaciapalm 10y ago
  I think you're being a bit sensitive. It's a writing style meant to provoke.
  - millstone 10y ago
    Denying essential humanity to anyone is always and everywhere unacceptable. "Unattractive men are animals, not human beings" isn't provocative, it's totally beyond the pale. If the essay called an ethnic or religious group animals, would you still link to it and characterize it as "interesting" and "provocative?"
    - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
      In the context of the article, "animal" is meant to be understood as "something having non-human features". An ugly guy has both human and "non-human" features, so a mind is split in those both directions, and the split evokes the feeling of creepiness. Just because you feel bad about something it doesn't mean it's false.
    - brhsiao 10y ago
      There is actually a distinct writing style that is meant to provoke, closely related to trolling, and should be recognized. Suppose I were writing a rant about obesity being unhealthy and visually jarring. I then decide, for comedic dramatic flair, to write "fat people should be eradicated from the gene pool," knowing full well it will anger the reader—who in turn cluelessly gets angry. I'd argue that that doesn't make me deplorable, it makes the joke on the reader. In the grand scheme of things, my gene pool comment obviously isn't serious, even if the rest of my rant is. Being provoked by people trying to provoke you is the conversational version of slipping on a banana peel, and is itself funny, albeit only ever so slightly.
  - kagamine 10y ago
    Well if saying anything you like as long as it is meant to provoke [a response] is acceptable, then let's have a few articles about why antisemitism is cool and how black people have low IQs. Or are those subjects that have been covered and people have been both prosecuted over and been fired from their jobs for? Being provocative at least requires starting with an argument that can be defended.
    - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
      I would like to have a discussion about those subjects too. So if you are above pc crowd, you can handle the painful truth. If you are on the same level as all pc people, then not much discussion is possible with you at all.
acaciapalm 10y ago
That's an over the top rant, but as a woman I agree with her basic premise: the "women are less visual" thing is a total lie and tied neatly into the "women desire sex less than men" lie. Looks are important to many women just as they are important to many men. There's nothing to be ashamed of and there is no point in denying human sexuality.
- millstone 10y ago
  Honest question: did you actually read past the first two paragraphs? I am astonished that any educated person could lend any support whatsoever to an article that uses terms like "genetic superiors." The premise is that only beautiful people are human beings.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    Not are. Are perceived as such by the surveyed set of women. Specifically, an ugly solicitor elicits a reaction comparable to a zombie in some women. This is generally a subconscious reaction belying sexual selection. Extreme but it happens. Less extreme version is tied to disgust feeling. The root is probably the same: detecting contagious people and animals.
    - millstone 10y ago
      Then the article should be about the inexcusable reactions of these women, instead of blaming ugly men for thinking they get to be human too.
      - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
        The reactions are non-voluntary and humans evolved this way. And since it's in our genes that our women are predisposed to feel like ugly people are genetically inferior, that is enough proof to say that they really are in a certain circumstances, specifically where sexual selection is the deciding factor in the success of reproduction. We live at the times where sexual selection trumps all other factors by a large margin, so people who are not desirable because of things they may not have control of, because they are genetic, they can be called genetically inferior.
aianus 10y ago
That woman is in for a world of hurt when she hits 30 and has to live out the rest of her days as a "subhuman uggo".
graeme 10y ago
That article sounds like it was written by a man. Not saying it's not accurate. But I've never heard any of the women I know frame things that way, even if they might agree with the ideas if presented with them.
- Red_Tarsius 10y ago
  If something is too offensive or creepy it must be written by a man. There's no way a woman wrote something people found displeasing. Sarcasm. Wording aside, I've heard plenty of women frame men that same way, including the 'lower than human' vibe.
  - graeme 10y ago
    You're reading stuff into my comment that I didn't write. "Wording aside" is exactly my point. Women might agree with some of the ideas there, but I haven't heard any express them in that way. I have seen men express them in that way.
OilDerek 10y ago
Hah, what an awful person. I suppose if you were willing to sleep with any "attractive" person that approached you there'd be no fear of rape, and so no threat or resulting "creepiness." Less shallow people, then, would either find "attractive" people more creepy and/or "unattractive" people less creepy.
PieterH 10y ago
This essay is a troll, surely? Or, the author is mentally disturbed.
- Smaug123 10y ago
  Doesn't have to be mentally disturbed. Just a horrible person. No matter the truth or falsity of the content, I can think of one scenario when that kind of writing is acceptable: when writing solely for someone who has declared [Crocker's rules][1] on the subject. [1]: http://sl4.org/crocker.html http://sl4.org/crocker.html
- _0ffh 10y ago
  It might (and maybe should) be, but maybe not (despite some glimpses of PUA language in there). The really sad part is: This thing has more upvotes than downvotes! That seems to indicate that this POV is somewhat accepted/shared by the given community. And while it is stupid, ugly and nauseating, it's not surprising. Or do we still think it's only men who can be disgusting fucktards? Also, equating physical beauty and even young age with genetic superiority? They don't come much stupider, do they? LAWL!
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brhsiao 10y ago
Hyperbolic ranting aside, I must say, I honestly prefer this explanation that creepy = ugly. It makes perfect sense to me that for better or worse, attractive people want to be with other attractive people. As a programmer in a field predicated on free-market principles, there's just nothing for me to complain about. Being called ugly sucks, but in the long run it seems better than having an arbitrary, ill-defined adjective like "creepy" thrown around. Ugly is at least constructive feedback. You know where the problem is.
vlehto 10y ago
Again someone taking looks of opposite sex personally. In hindsight it's amazing how much young people take this shit personally. Like guy getting angry to a woman for her being fat. Guy getting angry because some random woman is not attracted to him. Gal getting visually disgusted because some guy does not look appropriately attractive. Etc. Etc. Usually people get over it by their mid twenties. Some don't. Mixing fancy words to it like "feminism" sure does not help.
dang 10y ago
I'm sure it was unintentional, but you seriously derailed this thread by bringing in a truckload of extraneous provocation. Tangents to marginally related things can be interesting, but the fact that an unrelated essay also uses the word 'creepy' isn't sufficient reason to turn an HN discussion into a flamewar. If the quote had been from the OP it would have been one thing, but BYOE (bringing your own explosives) is not cool.
- visakanv 10y ago
  Sorry, I legitimately thought it was interesting and relevant

by Jerry2 10y ago

millstone 10y ago

I know this was a hyperbolic rant, but it's deplorable how this author literally dehumanizes men. The essay may be interesting, but it's mostly just monstrous.

acaciapalm 10y ago
I think you're being a bit sensitive. It's a writing style meant to provoke.
- millstone 10y ago
  Denying essential humanity to anyone is always and everywhere unacceptable. "Unattractive men are animals, not human beings" isn't provocative, it's totally beyond the pale. If the essay called an ethnic or religious group animals, would you still link to it and characterize it as "interesting" and "provocative?"
  - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
    In the context of the article, "animal" is meant to be understood as "something having non-human features". An ugly guy has both human and "non-human" features, so a mind is split in those both directions, and the split evokes the feeling of creepiness. Just because you feel bad about something it doesn't mean it's false.
  - brhsiao 10y ago
    There is actually a distinct writing style that is meant to provoke, closely related to trolling, and should be recognized. Suppose I were writing a rant about obesity being unhealthy and visually jarring. I then decide, for comedic dramatic flair, to write "fat people should be eradicated from the gene pool," knowing full well it will anger the reader—who in turn cluelessly gets angry. I'd argue that that doesn't make me deplorable, it makes the joke on the reader. In the grand scheme of things, my gene pool comment obviously isn't serious, even if the rest of my rant is. Being provoked by people trying to provoke you is the conversational version of slipping on a banana peel, and is itself funny, albeit only ever so slightly.
- kagamine 10y ago
  Well if saying anything you like as long as it is meant to provoke [a response] is acceptable, then let's have a few articles about why antisemitism is cool and how black people have low IQs. Or are those subjects that have been covered and people have been both prosecuted over and been fired from their jobs for? Being provocative at least requires starting with an argument that can be defended.
  - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
    I would like to have a discussion about those subjects too. So if you are above pc crowd, you can handle the painful truth. If you are on the same level as all pc people, then not much discussion is possible with you at all.

acaciapalm 10y ago

That's an over the top rant, but as a woman I agree with her basic premise: the "women are less visual" thing is a total lie and tied neatly into the "women desire sex less than men" lie. Looks are important to many women just as they are important to many men. There's nothing to be ashamed of and there is no point in denying human sexuality.

millstone 10y ago
Honest question: did you actually read past the first two paragraphs? I am astonished that any educated person could lend any support whatsoever to an article that uses terms like "genetic superiors." The premise is that only beautiful people are human beings.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  Not are. Are perceived as such by the surveyed set of women. Specifically, an ugly solicitor elicits a reaction comparable to a zombie in some women. This is generally a subconscious reaction belying sexual selection. Extreme but it happens. Less extreme version is tied to disgust feeling. The root is probably the same: detecting contagious people and animals.
  - millstone 10y ago
    Then the article should be about the inexcusable reactions of these women, instead of blaming ugly men for thinking they get to be human too.
    - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
      The reactions are non-voluntary and humans evolved this way. And since it's in our genes that our women are predisposed to feel like ugly people are genetically inferior, that is enough proof to say that they really are in a certain circumstances, specifically where sexual selection is the deciding factor in the success of reproduction. We live at the times where sexual selection trumps all other factors by a large margin, so people who are not desirable because of things they may not have control of, because they are genetic, they can be called genetically inferior.

aianus 10y ago

That woman is in for a world of hurt when she hits 30 and has to live out the rest of her days as a "subhuman uggo".

graeme 10y ago

That article sounds like it was written by a man. Not saying it's not accurate. But I've never heard any of the women I know frame things that way, even if they might agree with the ideas if presented with them.

Red_Tarsius 10y ago
If something is too offensive or creepy it must be written by a man. There's no way a woman wrote something people found displeasing. Sarcasm. Wording aside, I've heard plenty of women frame men that same way, including the 'lower than human' vibe.
- graeme 10y ago
  You're reading stuff into my comment that I didn't write. "Wording aside" is exactly my point. Women might agree with some of the ideas there, but I haven't heard any express them in that way. I have seen men express them in that way.

OilDerek 10y ago

Hah, what an awful person. I suppose if you were willing to sleep with any "attractive" person that approached you there'd be no fear of rape, and so no threat or resulting "creepiness." Less shallow people, then, would either find "attractive" people more creepy and/or "unattractive" people less creepy.

PieterH 10y ago

This essay is a troll, surely? Or, the author is mentally disturbed.

Smaug123 10y ago
Doesn't have to be mentally disturbed. Just a horrible person. No matter the truth or falsity of the content, I can think of one scenario when that kind of writing is acceptable: when writing solely for someone who has declared [Crocker's rules][1] on the subject. [1]: http://sl4.org/crocker.html http://sl4.org/crocker.html
_0ffh 10y ago
It might (and maybe should) be, but maybe not (despite some glimpses of PUA language in there). The really sad part is: This thing has more upvotes than downvotes! That seems to indicate that this POV is somewhat accepted/shared by the given community. And while it is stupid, ugly and nauseating, it's not surprising. Or do we still think it's only men who can be disgusting fucktards? Also, equating physical beauty and even young age with genetic superiority? They don't come much stupider, do they? LAWL!

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

brhsiao 10y ago

Hyperbolic ranting aside, I must say, I honestly prefer this explanation that creepy = ugly. It makes perfect sense to me that for better or worse, attractive people want to be with other attractive people. As a programmer in a field predicated on free-market principles, there's just nothing for me to complain about. Being called ugly sucks, but in the long run it seems better than having an arbitrary, ill-defined adjective like "creepy" thrown around. Ugly is at least constructive feedback. You know where the problem is.

vlehto 10y ago

Again someone taking looks of opposite sex personally. In hindsight it's amazing how much young people take this shit personally. Like guy getting angry to a woman for her being fat. Guy getting angry because some random woman is not attracted to him. Gal getting visually disgusted because some guy does not look appropriately attractive. Etc. Etc. Usually people get over it by their mid twenties. Some don't. Mixing fancy words to it like "feminism" sure does not help.

dang 10y ago

I'm sure it was unintentional, but you seriously derailed this thread by bringing in a truckload of extraneous provocation. Tangents to marginally related things can be interesting, but the fact that an unrelated essay also uses the word 'creepy' isn't sufficient reason to turn an HN discussion into a flamewar. If the quote had been from the OP it would have been one thing, but BYOE (bringing your own explosives) is not cool.

visakanv 10y ago
Sorry, I legitimately thought it was interesting and relevant