5 ms·

Decentralized platform for photo sales and photo sharing, built on Ethereum

112 points by lamitoto 10y ago

z3t4 10y ago
One problem would be people stealing others images for profit.
- draugadrotten 10y ago
  It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended. There will always be misuse, but that can be adressed later if the system is successful. Compare airbnb, uber, dropbox. They all have very bad use cases. The systems were designed for the vast majority of users being lawful and for the most part it works.
  - jheriko 10y ago
    uber was never designed to be lawful, its the entire issue i have with it, it was designed with ignorance of the law and has gotten away with it through utility and popularity...
    - throwthisthing 10y ago
      not universal and needs nuance for sure, but...if it's giving a lot of utility to a lot of people, then maybe there's something probably a bit wrong with the law in the first place. So there needs to be some give.
    - bfuller 10y ago
      and massive amounts of money spent on lawyers
  - pjc50 10y ago
    > It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended This is terrible advice. But note that two of your examples have ratings systems as a first-line anti-abuse measure, and dropbox like all the other hosting services do notify-and-takedown for copyright infringement. They also disable dropbox sharing if it's too widely used.
  - jobigoud 10y ago
    > It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended. Not in cryptoworld. This is an application running on Ethereum. The entire point of the platform is to provide means for people to interact without necessarily trusting each other.
HairyGing3r 10y ago
While this is a great idea, I'm still not sure how we can find out (digitally) that a pixel was changed and a new copyright can be awarded.
- zakki 10y ago
  I thinks it is pointed in: -Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain)
  - HairyGing3r 10y ago
    Call me a cynic, but can't I change a pixel and use the photo w/o the copyright?
    - mbrock 10y ago
      Yes, and that's an eternal problem inherent to the nature of digital goods. Look at Steemit for examples of people making money from original content.
    - rglullis 10y ago
      Next feature to add, or deriving business to create: add an indexer/comparison service that checks the JPEGs and to see how similar any two given pictures are, and if one derived copy sells anything, the creator of the original picture gets notified.
      - HairyGing3r 10y ago
        Great feature, but I can't help thinking about the permissions you'd have to give for that
      - milansuk 10y ago
        This could work from buyer/client side. If I want to buy image, I will check it with some service to be sure that I don't pay to pirate(newer&lightly changed image). But what If buyer doesn't use it? I don't see the way how this could be implemented to blockchain. If every blockchain node downloaded and compared all images It would create massive bandwith and need for cpu/gpu power. Or am I missing something?
greenspot 10y ago
> Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain) Does anyone have a clue, how this should work? Eg, if I just 'steal' a pic and change slightly its brightness, color curve, crop, blurriness, etc. will the system still be able to identify the original? Otherwise great idea.
- tw04 10y ago
  I would imagine you're buying a copy of the photo in non-raw format, whether it be jpeg/png/whatever. If you don't have a RAW copy to post to the blockchain, it's impossible to steal it.
  - jheriko 10y ago
    are you sure .PNG doesn't contain enough data to reconstruct a RAW file? I'm not...
    - throwawayReply 10y ago
      Given that RAW can have 32 bits per channel and PNG only 16 bits per channel, it must be possible* to construct two different RAW files which render to the same PNG. *Possible in the mathematical sense, it may not be practical.
  - maxedgeronimo 10y ago
    Hi tw04, yes thats right, though it will depend also on the terms of the sale / license given by the seller, which in some cases may give the full rights to the image including the RAW file in some cases. All of which is under the discretion of the seller. In the case that they did give rights to the RAW file, then that user is the only one who gets the RAW file data, its passed to them via an ethereum escrow contract
sharemywin 10y ago
> Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain) If it's on the block chain and everyone has a copy can't I just copy it directly from the blockchain?
- maxedgeronimo 10y ago
  Hi sharemywin, no the photo itself is not on the blockchain, only the details about the photo & timestamp. the photo served on the website is not the full high res image. That is stored off chain
  - sharemywin 10y ago
    sorry about that. apparently I can't read things in parentheses even when I copy them.
- aqme28 10y ago
  Maybe it's just a hash of the raw? It says the image is not itself stored on the chain.
  - bytecodes 10y ago
    Which gives you what? Unless you release the raw file it could be a hash of anything.
maxedgeronimo 10y ago
Thanks for the love guys! still looking for rockstar devs to join the hackathon team. front/back end + ethereum solidity. ping us on mark at stratagility dot com. Funding is incoming.
- elmigranto 10y ago
  > looking for rockstar For those who aren't into music that much, how about ninjas? :)
  - maxedgeronimo 10y ago
    ninjas rock to ;-)
joosters 10y ago
Why should people trust that the images are 'identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain' ? Who says that the data on the blockchain is correct, and what stops someone from registering other people's photos under their own name?
JulianMorrison 10y ago
What's your "lets not turn this into decentralized eBay for child porn" story?
- max_ 10y ago
  That is a very big problem!! but https://ipfs.pics/ https://ipfs.pics/ to some solves this by using "Votes"
  - JulianMorrison 10y ago
    The trouble is, this assumes people will vote CP down. I do not feel that confident in mass moral behaviour. Observe Reddit.
- orf 10y ago
  What would happen if someone attached a child porn image into the block chain? A cursory Google apparently reveals you can include up to 30kb of data in a transaction (?). Wouldn't everyone who was in possession of the block chain also be in possession of child porn?
- Andrew_Quentin 10y ago
  The interface, as in the website, is often a centralized point. Admins can remove stuff from there which easily deals with CP reflecting to a large extent the current situation - sending CP stuff to some fringe. In more grey areas, although admins can remove, say, free speech pictures, the picture remains there, with anyone free to create a new interface allowing the picture to be easily accessed. So it's a bit similiar to the internet where anyone can - or maybe now, could - create a new site and upload the info. You can then add more user level jury aspects on top, but I doubt anyone wants to face that sort of stuff and moderate it if the network was to gain scale. If we go back to the centralized website though, it becomes a bit interesting. Take Milo's banning example - just because it is the most recent and comes to mind. We have the twitter website with Milo banned. Under this scheme, we can have a twitter classic with Milo not banned. Both of them have the same network effect, the same users etc, they identical in all ways, but in one Milo is banned in the other Milo isn't with the only other difference being that they have different domain names. When we all agree something is abhorrent, everyone uses the non cp network through the centralized website interface, while some go to... like now we have internet and tor, when something is in a bit of a grey area, however, there is an added benefit. Say, for example, reddit took some action against everyone's opinion. The current option is for everyone to move to a new site. That's of course a bit difficult as it requires a change of habit and changing habits can be stupendously extremely hard. With this, or more generally, with a blockchain based approach, you don't ask anyone to shift at all. There is no shifting. All users remain, the entire network effect is still there. There are no bootstrapping questions etc. No starting back from zero. All there is, is typing a new domain, far, far easier than persuading everyone to start a new town in a ghost desert place. So, it is obviously not a utopia, but, it is a bit of an improvement. The whole thing is very much at a cable switching for phone calls stage though, so, everyone is sort of considering this matters.
vachi 10y ago
check out haystack.im we build exactly that, only no Flickr or instagram on it yet
meh2frdf 10y ago
Naive and doesn't actually solve any problems, but hey good luck, have fun.

112 points by lamitoto 10y ago

z3t4 10y ago

One problem would be people stealing others images for profit.

draugadrotten 10y ago
It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended. There will always be misuse, but that can be adressed later if the system is successful. Compare airbnb, uber, dropbox. They all have very bad use cases. The systems were designed for the vast majority of users being lawful and for the most part it works.
- jheriko 10y ago
  uber was never designed to be lawful, its the entire issue i have with it, it was designed with ignorance of the law and has gotten away with it through utility and popularity...
  - throwthisthing 10y ago
    not universal and needs nuance for sure, but...if it's giving a lot of utility to a lot of people, then maybe there's something probably a bit wrong with the law in the first place. So there needs to be some give.
  - bfuller 10y ago
    and massive amounts of money spent on lawyers
- pjc50 10y ago
  > It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended This is terrible advice. But note that two of your examples have ratings systems as a first-line anti-abuse measure, and dropbox like all the other hosting services do notify-and-takedown for copyright infringement. They also disable dropbox sharing if it's too widely used.
- jobigoud 10y ago
  > It is good to design systems with the assumption that most users will use them as intended. Not in cryptoworld. This is an application running on Ethereum. The entire point of the platform is to provide means for people to interact without necessarily trusting each other.

HairyGing3r 10y ago

While this is a great idea, I'm still not sure how we can find out (digitally) that a pixel was changed and a new copyright can be awarded.

zakki 10y ago
I thinks it is pointed in: -Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain)
- HairyGing3r 10y ago
  Call me a cynic, but can't I change a pixel and use the photo w/o the copyright?
  - mbrock 10y ago
    Yes, and that's an eternal problem inherent to the nature of digital goods. Look at Steemit for examples of people making money from original content.
  - rglullis 10y ago
    Next feature to add, or deriving business to create: add an indexer/comparison service that checks the JPEGs and to see how similar any two given pictures are, and if one derived copy sells anything, the creator of the original picture gets notified.
    - HairyGing3r 10y ago
      Great feature, but I can't help thinking about the permissions you'd have to give for that
    - milansuk 10y ago
      This could work from buyer/client side. If I want to buy image, I will check it with some service to be sure that I don't pay to pirate(newer&lightly changed image). But what If buyer doesn't use it? I don't see the way how this could be implemented to blockchain. If every blockchain node downloaded and compared all images It would create massive bandwith and need for cpu/gpu power. Or am I missing something?

greenspot 10y ago

> Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain) Does anyone have a clue, how this should work? Eg, if I just 'steal' a pic and change slightly its brightness, color curve, crop, blurriness, etc. will the system still be able to identify the original? Otherwise great idea.

tw04 10y ago
I would imagine you're buying a copy of the photo in non-raw format, whether it be jpeg/png/whatever. If you don't have a RAW copy to post to the blockchain, it's impossible to steal it.
- jheriko 10y ago
  are you sure .PNG doesn't contain enough data to reconstruct a RAW file? I'm not...
  - throwawayReply 10y ago
    Given that RAW can have 32 bits per channel and PNG only 16 bits per channel, it must be possible* to construct two different RAW files which render to the same PNG. *Possible in the mathematical sense, it may not be practical.
- maxedgeronimo 10y ago
  Hi tw04, yes thats right, though it will depend also on the terms of the sale / license given by the seller, which in some cases may give the full rights to the image including the RAW file in some cases. All of which is under the discretion of the seller. In the case that they did give rights to the RAW file, then that user is the only one who gets the RAW file data, its passed to them via an ethereum escrow contract

sharemywin 10y ago

> Photos for sale are identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain (actual High Res image is not stored on chain) If it's on the block chain and everyone has a copy can't I just copy it directly from the blockchain?

maxedgeronimo 10y ago
Hi sharemywin, no the photo itself is not on the blockchain, only the details about the photo & timestamp. the photo served on the website is not the full high res image. That is stored off chain
- sharemywin 10y ago
  sorry about that. apparently I can't read things in parentheses even when I copy them.
aqme28 10y ago
Maybe it's just a hash of the raw? It says the image is not itself stored on the chain.
- bytecodes 10y ago
  Which gives you what? Unless you release the raw file it could be a hash of anything.

maxedgeronimo 10y ago

Thanks for the love guys! still looking for rockstar devs to join the hackathon team. front/back end + ethereum solidity. ping us on mark at stratagility dot com. Funding is incoming.

elmigranto 10y ago
> looking for rockstar For those who aren't into music that much, how about ninjas? :)
- maxedgeronimo 10y ago
  ninjas rock to ;-)

joosters 10y ago

Why should people trust that the images are 'identified as rightfully owned by having RAW file details published to the blockchain' ? Who says that the data on the blockchain is correct, and what stops someone from registering other people's photos under their own name?

JulianMorrison 10y ago

What's your "lets not turn this into decentralized eBay for child porn" story?

max_ 10y ago
That is a very big problem!! but https://ipfs.pics/ https://ipfs.pics/ to some solves this by using "Votes"
- JulianMorrison 10y ago
  The trouble is, this assumes people will vote CP down. I do not feel that confident in mass moral behaviour. Observe Reddit.
orf 10y ago
What would happen if someone attached a child porn image into the block chain? A cursory Google apparently reveals you can include up to 30kb of data in a transaction (?). Wouldn't everyone who was in possession of the block chain also be in possession of child porn?
Andrew_Quentin 10y ago
The interface, as in the website, is often a centralized point. Admins can remove stuff from there which easily deals with CP reflecting to a large extent the current situation - sending CP stuff to some fringe. In more grey areas, although admins can remove, say, free speech pictures, the picture remains there, with anyone free to create a new interface allowing the picture to be easily accessed. So it's a bit similiar to the internet where anyone can - or maybe now, could - create a new site and upload the info. You can then add more user level jury aspects on top, but I doubt anyone wants to face that sort of stuff and moderate it if the network was to gain scale. If we go back to the centralized website though, it becomes a bit interesting. Take Milo's banning example - just because it is the most recent and comes to mind. We have the twitter website with Milo banned. Under this scheme, we can have a twitter classic with Milo not banned. Both of them have the same network effect, the same users etc, they identical in all ways, but in one Milo is banned in the other Milo isn't with the only other difference being that they have different domain names. When we all agree something is abhorrent, everyone uses the non cp network through the centralized website interface, while some go to... like now we have internet and tor, when something is in a bit of a grey area, however, there is an added benefit. Say, for example, reddit took some action against everyone's opinion. The current option is for everyone to move to a new site. That's of course a bit difficult as it requires a change of habit and changing habits can be stupendously extremely hard. With this, or more generally, with a blockchain based approach, you don't ask anyone to shift at all. There is no shifting. All users remain, the entire network effect is still there. There are no bootstrapping questions etc. No starting back from zero. All there is, is typing a new domain, far, far easier than persuading everyone to start a new town in a ghost desert place. So, it is obviously not a utopia, but, it is a bit of an improvement. The whole thing is very much at a cable switching for phone calls stage though, so, everyone is sort of considering this matters.

vachi 10y ago

check out haystack.im we build exactly that, only no Flickr or instagram on it yet

meh2frdf 10y ago

Naive and doesn't actually solve any problems, but hey good luck, have fun.