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Are these wind farms located near data centers and such use the power directly? Or do they dump into the grid and sell it as power then claim all their power u

Are these wind farms located near data centers and such use the power directly? Or do they dump into the grid and sell it as power then claim all their power usage is renewable because it is "offset"?

ianlevesque 10y ago
Why would that be a problem?
Dylan16807 10y ago
Is there a flaw in treating electricity as fungible in this case? What matters is the amount of carbon that would be produced without Amazon, vs. the amount produced including Amazon.
- michaelt 10y ago
  It impacts how interesting the article is. If they were together there could be a tech angle - like how this was going to insulate their data centres from problems with the grid, or how they were going to shed load when the wind wasn't blowing, or something like that. Otherwise it sounds like AWS and Amazon Wind Power could basically be two unrelated companies.
  - new_hackers 10y ago
    perhaps AWS as a whole has a reasonable constant electric load. The price per MWh fluctuates during "on-peak" and "off-peak" hours. The price really goes up when you accidentally need more power during peak demand. I'm wondering if wind power isn't an effort to decrease the price they pay on the open market for peak power, or to at least recoup some of those costs.
mtmail 10y ago
The press release itself reads "Amazon will purchase about 90% of the power generated by the wind farm." so I assume the primary purpose is their data centers.
- InternetPerson 10y ago
  Thanks!
- throwaway7645 10y ago
  They might be buying the output, but it is unlikely that the actual MW output will be what is feeding their data center. A lot of people have trouble understanding that.
- dgemm 10y ago
  Interesting because there is no Amazon DC anywhere near that area.
  - cstejerean 10y ago
    Yet. I wonder if there are plans to open an AWS DC in Texas.
InternetPerson 10y ago
I notice that you're simply asking a question. In your comment, you don't imply that one option is better than the other. And yet the two replies (so far) don't attempt to answer the question, but do attempt to argue with you... Anyway, if anyone knows the answer, I'd like to know as well. And to be clear: I have no opinion about how things should be in this case, I just want to know how they are.
- icebraining 10y ago
  It was quite implied by the use of the word claim and the scare quotes.
Arnt 10y ago
What's the difference?
kinofcain 10y ago
The article mentions that the previous four are grid connected but it doesn't explicitly say the same for the fifth: "The four previously announced wind and solar farms deliver energy to the electrical grids supplying both current and future Amazon Web Services (AWS) Cloud data centers."
msisk6 10y ago
No, this is out in west Texas where wind is plentiful along with cheap land. Nearly all wind and solar farms inject energy into the grid just like any other generator. In an open energy market like ERCOT (where this wind farm is located) there's a market where energy is traded. If they inject "X" units of energy into the grid and pull out the same "X" units all is good. If not (the usual case since generation and demand need to equal 100% at all times) there are rules to govern the buying and selling of energy all generators ("market participants") follow. Suffice it to say, grid management in an open energy market is complicated. If you really want to know more about the rules you can read more here: http://ercot.com/mktrules http://ercot.com/mktrules
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  I would like to take a moment to appreciate that we seemingly have a pretty open, fair, and working regulatory system to make this possible. I am sure it's not perfect, but that you can do this at all is pretty cool.
  - pm90 10y ago
    One could argue that the possibility of having such structures in place is exactly what allows such a market to exist. In fact, the fair enforcement of laws and the viability of the laws themselves is perhaps one of the strongest foundations of progress in the developed nations.
- new_hackers 10y ago
  yep and being a generator will probably give them direct access to this market. I'm wondering if turning some of the AWS computing power toward playing the energy market isn't some of the motivation here.
- new_hackers 10y ago
  are any of the Amazon Data Centers located in ERCOT? Not that I could find in a quick search?
- bogomipz 10y ago

ianlevesque 10y ago

Why would that be a problem?

Dylan16807 10y ago

Is there a flaw in treating electricity as fungible in this case? What matters is the amount of carbon that would be produced without Amazon, vs. the amount produced including Amazon.

michaelt 10y ago
It impacts how interesting the article is. If they were together there could be a tech angle - like how this was going to insulate their data centres from problems with the grid, or how they were going to shed load when the wind wasn't blowing, or something like that. Otherwise it sounds like AWS and Amazon Wind Power could basically be two unrelated companies.
- new_hackers 10y ago
  perhaps AWS as a whole has a reasonable constant electric load. The price per MWh fluctuates during "on-peak" and "off-peak" hours. The price really goes up when you accidentally need more power during peak demand. I'm wondering if wind power isn't an effort to decrease the price they pay on the open market for peak power, or to at least recoup some of those costs.

mtmail 10y ago

The press release itself reads "Amazon will purchase about 90% of the power generated by the wind farm." so I assume the primary purpose is their data centers.

InternetPerson 10y ago
Thanks!
throwaway7645 10y ago
They might be buying the output, but it is unlikely that the actual MW output will be what is feeding their data center. A lot of people have trouble understanding that.
dgemm 10y ago
Interesting because there is no Amazon DC anywhere near that area.
- cstejerean 10y ago
  Yet. I wonder if there are plans to open an AWS DC in Texas.

InternetPerson 10y ago

I notice that you're simply asking a question. In your comment, you don't imply that one option is better than the other. And yet the two replies (so far) don't attempt to answer the question, but do attempt to argue with you... Anyway, if anyone knows the answer, I'd like to know as well. And to be clear: I have no opinion about how things should be in this case, I just want to know how they are.

icebraining 10y ago
It was quite implied by the use of the word claim and the scare quotes.

Arnt 10y ago

What's the difference?

kinofcain 10y ago

The article mentions that the previous four are grid connected but it doesn't explicitly say the same for the fifth: "The four previously announced wind and solar farms deliver energy to the electrical grids supplying both current and future Amazon Web Services (AWS) Cloud data centers."

msisk6 10y ago

No, this is out in west Texas where wind is plentiful along with cheap land. Nearly all wind and solar farms inject energy into the grid just like any other generator. In an open energy market like ERCOT (where this wind farm is located) there's a market where energy is traded. If they inject "X" units of energy into the grid and pull out the same "X" units all is good. If not (the usual case since generation and demand need to equal 100% at all times) there are rules to govern the buying and selling of energy all generators ("market participants") follow. Suffice it to say, grid management in an open energy market is complicated. If you really want to know more about the rules you can read more here: http://ercot.com/mktrules http://ercot.com/mktrules

whamlastxmas 10y ago
I would like to take a moment to appreciate that we seemingly have a pretty open, fair, and working regulatory system to make this possible. I am sure it's not perfect, but that you can do this at all is pretty cool.
- pm90 10y ago
  One could argue that the possibility of having such structures in place is exactly what allows such a market to exist. In fact, the fair enforcement of laws and the viability of the laws themselves is perhaps one of the strongest foundations of progress in the developed nations.
new_hackers 10y ago
yep and being a generator will probably give them direct access to this market. I'm wondering if turning some of the AWS computing power toward playing the energy market isn't some of the motivation here.
new_hackers 10y ago
are any of the Amazon Data Centers located in ERCOT? Not that I could find in a quick search?
bogomipz 10y ago