9 ms·

Amphetamine boosts rats’ recovery from brain injuries

89 points by sndean 10y ago

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
I recall reading something about this a long time ago, maybe over 10 years ago, that administering amphetamine as soon as possible(?) after a stroke reduces the number of brain cells that die and improves recovery. Even back when I first heard of this I assumed that it would translate to at least some other forms of brain injury, and I assumed it had to do with the central nervous system stimulatory effects of amphetamine (increase activity which means increase blood flow). A quick search on scholar.google.com for the terms amphetamine stroke shows at least a few first page results from the '80s. Here's one from 1982[1] and 1988[2] From the second link: Patients treated with amphetamine obtained greater increments in motor scores than the controls. We ought not discount the possible positive uses of amphetamine and other drugs just because of their bad reputation for recreation use and abuse potential. I suppose. 1. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/217/4562/855 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/217/4562/855 2. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410230117/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410230117/ful...
alfon 10y ago
"Two other drugs, atomoxetine and amantadine, which have been used to treat impulse control disorders in patients, offered no significant benefits." - Ups
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Eh, not all impulse control disorders come from brain damage?
WaxProlix 10y ago
Amphetamine at low (and even increasingly high) doses has also been shown to be neuroprotective. Kind of a wonder drug as far as neurology goes, aside from the addictive and euphoric properties. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2440058 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2440058
- contingencies 10y ago
  Ditto nicotine? Here in Asia we also have betel nut. Then there's caffeine and its drink-marketing brethren...
  - icantdrive55 10y ago
    I remember Dr. Dean Edell said more than a few times, 'nicotine/tobacco has been so vilified in the U.S., we will never know if it has any medicinal value.'
    - jacobolus 10y ago
      http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
      - maneesh 10y ago
        Exactly. It has a ton of valuable, useful characteristics. It's a REALLY good hack for fitness--every day, wear a nicotine patch and go to the gym (at the same time/trigger each day). You RAPIDLY get addicted to fitness.
        tcj_phx 10y ago
        Nicotine has similar effects to Vitamin B3. Niacinamide (a no-flush B3 supplement) has helped my girlfriend reduce her tobacco intake, when she gets it...
        mej10 10y ago
        You rapidly get addicted to fitness? Sign me up! But seriously do you have more details on this?
  - tominous 10y ago
    I'd love to see more research about nicotine and schizophrenia. Something like 80% or schizophrenics smoke, and they do so heavily. This is 3 or 4 times the rate of the general population. The question is: does smoking cause schizophrenia, is it self-medication, or both? Scott Alexander has an interesting summary [1]. For what it's worth, my schizophrenic brother says smoking makes his mind feel much clearer. I think mental hospitals should have a strategy to provide nicotine to patients (in the high dose they need) to minimise the harm of the strong cheap rubbish that schizophrenics inhale all day. Maybe e-cigs should be promoted to smoker patients. [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoking-gun/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smokin...
tcj_phx 10y ago
I've posted here before about helping my girlfriend with her substance abuse problems... Methamphetamine makes her extremely psychotic for at least 3-5 days. My observation is that Cocaine is a much safer stimulant, as it only makes her "mildly psychotic" until the effects wear off, then she quickly recovers. She's complained to me that cocaine doesn't work anymore, as it doesn't create the euphoria that it used to. Methamphetamine is easier to find, I guess. My girlfriend is currently being mistreated by "professionals", who have assumed that she's "persistently disabled" because she'd been court-ordered before. They have been completely hostile to treating the underlying causes of their patient's symptoms: alcohol, prescription drugs (anti-psychotics [1] & benzodiazepines), and other substances (stimulants, mainly). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis#Other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis#Ot... - "antipsychotics, in an idiosyncratic reaction" (emphasis added) Preliminary evidence found that Progesterone USP also helps people recover from brain injuries. A poorly designed study was hastily implemented, the ineffective method of progesterone administration was found to not help, and the Progesterone USP theory of neuroprotection is not being studied anymore.
- meowface 10y ago
  Sorry for your issues with the medical system, but how is this related to the article?
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Presumably the progesterone bit?
    - meowface 10y ago
      It's possible I completely missed it, but I don't remember that last paragraph being in his post when I first replied to it.
- axlprose 10y ago
  as someone who's prescribed amphetamine (i.e. adderall) for [inattentive] ADHD, and have also tried meth-amphetamine, I just want to point out that those are two very different drugs as far as effects and potency go. Methamphetamine is so strong, I honestly couldn't even tolerate small amounts of the stuff. The few times I've tried it just resulted in dehydration, headaches, and muscle aches, easily outweighing any cognitive effects it had (which weren't even really more noticeable than regular amphetamine's effects for me). Cocaine isn't as bad, but still a bit too much for me as well. Regular amphetamine on the other hand, the compound this article is about, has given me quite a noticeable improvement in my quality of life. Results do vary even among us adhd people, but for me, I've never experienced anything worse than staying up a bit later than I would like from taking it. Otherwise it just feels like drinking a really strong cup of tea for me, cause even coffee makes me more jittery. So the research in this article doesn't surprise me too much, but it's always nice to have some extra reassurance against all the anti-adhd-medication propaganda that originally made me paranoid about even trying it back when I was first diagnosed.
DonHopkins 10y ago
Well that explains why Trump doesn't want to release his medical records, as well as why he acts like a brain damaged rat on speed. [1] [2] [1] http://gawker.com/the-best-theory-of-1992-donald-trump-took-amphetamine-1755299885 http://gawker.com/the-best-theory-of-1992-donald-trump-took-... [2] http://www.inquisitr.com/3282568/is-donald-trump-on-drugs-cheap-speed-in-new-report/ http://www.inquisitr.com/3282568/is-donald-trump-on-drugs-ch...
mlvljr 10y ago
Only if the rats have Therapeutic Use Exemptions!! :)
nomoral 10y ago
Or terrible psychosis
bluesign 10y ago
I think the most important part is: "Uninjured and resilient animals performed worse after the drug, but chronically impaired animals responded with increased accuracy and less impulsivity on the behavioral test."
- JustUhThought 10y ago
  Yes, important for this study. But, my experience with the broader classification of brain drugs and medical professionals that prescribe them is that "unless it's broke don't ask to fix it, and even then put whatever we tell you into your body and let's see ehat happens." There are some excellent studies showing modafinil to benefit all doctors when performing while sleep deprived. Modifinil is pretty much as safe and addictive as caffeine. Now, try going into a doctor's office with this info and asking for a script. My experience is that 9 out of 10 times you'll be seen to be displaying addictive behavior. There are a bunch of drugs that, if properly taken, will do wonders for your mental life. Intunive, selegiline, methylphenidate, to name only a few. But, while it's legal to smoke, drink, watch tv, or eat yourself to death or into depression, acting on your own to take these drugs could land you in jail. If the US is so gung-ho on personal responsibility, let us take responsibility for our actions then, and let doctors be partners, not parents. In an age where inhanced mental or physical condition make an enormous difference in ones quality of life, stop hamstringing us from taking action so we might better ourselves.
  - JustUhThought 10y ago
    Enhanced,,, ha. My bad
  - api 10y ago
    "Freedom" and personal responsibility in America is largely a shibboleth-- an idea to which only empty homage is paid. In reality the USA is a highly regulated, conformist, and centrally planned society and has been since the days of "manifest destiny." This for those who don't know was the federal push to settle coast to coast and was sort of America's first centrally planned megaproject. Of course most other nations are at least as much this way if not more so. Just pointing out that America is not really special in this regard.
watermoose 10y ago
I've had ADD and slow executive function all of my life, along with a few other problems. I was in denial or at least unsure about it for years. I'd had docs diagnose me with ADD, one who tested me extensively who though ADD was overdiagnosed that said I didn't have it, and had tried natural remedies, attempted to self-treat with caffeine- probably 5-12 cans of soda a day or several cups of coffee- and had a few really bad experiences and reactions with the meds that I tried. Then I finally went to a psychiatrist that had been recommended to me by my doc and an friend of a friend and took GeneSight tests for genetic markers that indicate problems with different types of medications. I found one for ADD that was recommended and was prescribed that. It was Vyvanse which is amphetamine-based. It is lisdexamfetamine which is basically like a time-released dextroamphetamine. It becomes dextroamphetamine when the body cleaves off the lysine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine I took Vyvanse and within an hour, I had a lot more energy and felt like I was "on". I didn't have any trouble focusing and it revved up my executive function so I was not thinking as slowly. I felt like it was going to solve all of my problems. However, even though I felt great and helped with some depression I was having also, I had some negative interactions at work. After getting "called into the office" after one of those, I knew I was going to have to do something else. Away from work, though, it was a great medication to be on, and since it was time-released, so I only had to take one in the morning. I still don't think it's a bad med. I went back to the psychiatrist. She put me on Evekeo. It contains 50% levoamphetamine salts and 50% dextroamphetamine. On it, I can focus on what I'm doing like what I think a normal person does- or maybe better. I still will hear what others are saying and get distracted, but when I want to, and with help of music, I can really focus on my work. I can even focus more that I think that I could when I was younger and ADD wasn't affecting me as much. I still feel a little slower and am considering taking it and a smaller dose of dextroamphetamine. For me, it's a little like the real-world clear pill from Limitless. I think eventually what I'd like to be on would be a combination of lisdexamfetamine and levoamphetamine (or a time-released version of it). It's possible that the L-lysine of lisdexamfetamine was also having some positive affects: https://www.drugs.com/npc/lysine.html https://www.drugs.com/npc/lysine.html
- Klathmon 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

89 points by sndean 10y ago

I recall reading something about this a long time ago, maybe over 10 years ago, that administering amphetamine as soon as possible(?) after a stroke reduces the number of brain cells that die and improves recovery. Even back when I first heard of this I assumed that it would translate to at least some other forms of brain injury, and I assumed it had to do with the central nervous system stimulatory effects of amphetamine (increase activity which means increase blood flow). A quick search on scholar.google.com for the terms amphetamine stroke shows at least a few first page results from the '80s. Here's one from 1982[1] and 1988[2] From the second link: Patients treated with amphetamine obtained greater increments in motor scores than the controls. We ought not discount the possible positive uses of amphetamine and other drugs just because of their bad reputation for recreation use and abuse potential. I suppose. 1. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/217/4562/855 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/217/4562/855 2. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410230117/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410230117/ful...

alfon 10y ago

"Two other drugs, atomoxetine and amantadine, which have been used to treat impulse control disorders in patients, offered no significant benefits." - Ups

reitanqild 10y ago
Eh, not all impulse control disorders come from brain damage?

WaxProlix 10y ago

Amphetamine at low (and even increasingly high) doses has also been shown to be neuroprotective. Kind of a wonder drug as far as neurology goes, aside from the addictive and euphoric properties. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2440058 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2440058

contingencies 10y ago
Ditto nicotine? Here in Asia we also have betel nut. Then there's caffeine and its drink-marketing brethren...
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  I remember Dr. Dean Edell said more than a few times, 'nicotine/tobacco has been so vilified in the U.S., we will never know if it has any medicinal value.'
  - jacobolus 10y ago
    http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
    - maneesh 10y ago
      Exactly. It has a ton of valuable, useful characteristics. It's a REALLY good hack for fitness--every day, wear a nicotine patch and go to the gym (at the same time/trigger each day). You RAPIDLY get addicted to fitness.
      - tcj_phx 10y ago
        Nicotine has similar effects to Vitamin B3. Niacinamide (a no-flush B3 supplement) has helped my girlfriend reduce her tobacco intake, when she gets it...
      - mej10 10y ago
        You rapidly get addicted to fitness? Sign me up! But seriously do you have more details on this?
- tominous 10y ago
  I'd love to see more research about nicotine and schizophrenia. Something like 80% or schizophrenics smoke, and they do so heavily. This is 3 or 4 times the rate of the general population. The question is: does smoking cause schizophrenia, is it self-medication, or both? Scott Alexander has an interesting summary [1]. For what it's worth, my schizophrenic brother says smoking makes his mind feel much clearer. I think mental hospitals should have a strategy to provide nicotine to patients (in the high dose they need) to minimise the harm of the strong cheap rubbish that schizophrenics inhale all day. Maybe e-cigs should be promoted to smoker patients. [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smoking-gun/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/01/11/schizophrenia-no-smokin...

tcj_phx 10y ago

I've posted here before about helping my girlfriend with her substance abuse problems... Methamphetamine makes her extremely psychotic for at least 3-5 days. My observation is that Cocaine is a much safer stimulant, as it only makes her "mildly psychotic" until the effects wear off, then she quickly recovers. She's complained to me that cocaine doesn't work anymore, as it doesn't create the euphoria that it used to. Methamphetamine is easier to find, I guess. My girlfriend is currently being mistreated by "professionals", who have assumed that she's "persistently disabled" because she'd been court-ordered before. They have been completely hostile to treating the underlying causes of their patient's symptoms: alcohol, prescription drugs (anti-psychotics [1] & benzodiazepines), and other substances (stimulants, mainly). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis#Other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis#Ot... - "antipsychotics, in an idiosyncratic reaction" (emphasis added) Preliminary evidence found that Progesterone USP also helps people recover from brain injuries. A poorly designed study was hastily implemented, the ineffective method of progesterone administration was found to not help, and the Progesterone USP theory of neuroprotection is not being studied anymore.

meowface 10y ago
Sorry for your issues with the medical system, but how is this related to the article?
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Presumably the progesterone bit?
  - meowface 10y ago
    It's possible I completely missed it, but I don't remember that last paragraph being in his post when I first replied to it.
axlprose 10y ago
as someone who's prescribed amphetamine (i.e. adderall) for [inattentive] ADHD, and have also tried meth-amphetamine, I just want to point out that those are two very different drugs as far as effects and potency go. Methamphetamine is so strong, I honestly couldn't even tolerate small amounts of the stuff. The few times I've tried it just resulted in dehydration, headaches, and muscle aches, easily outweighing any cognitive effects it had (which weren't even really more noticeable than regular amphetamine's effects for me). Cocaine isn't as bad, but still a bit too much for me as well. Regular amphetamine on the other hand, the compound this article is about, has given me quite a noticeable improvement in my quality of life. Results do vary even among us adhd people, but for me, I've never experienced anything worse than staying up a bit later than I would like from taking it. Otherwise it just feels like drinking a really strong cup of tea for me, cause even coffee makes me more jittery. So the research in this article doesn't surprise me too much, but it's always nice to have some extra reassurance against all the anti-adhd-medication propaganda that originally made me paranoid about even trying it back when I was first diagnosed.

DonHopkins 10y ago

Well that explains why Trump doesn't want to release his medical records, as well as why he acts like a brain damaged rat on speed. [1] [2] [1] http://gawker.com/the-best-theory-of-1992-donald-trump-took-amphetamine-1755299885 http://gawker.com/the-best-theory-of-1992-donald-trump-took-... [2] http://www.inquisitr.com/3282568/is-donald-trump-on-drugs-cheap-speed-in-new-report/ http://www.inquisitr.com/3282568/is-donald-trump-on-drugs-ch...

mlvljr 10y ago

Only if the rats have Therapeutic Use Exemptions!! :)

nomoral 10y ago

Or terrible psychosis

bluesign 10y ago

I think the most important part is: "Uninjured and resilient animals performed worse after the drug, but chronically impaired animals responded with increased accuracy and less impulsivity on the behavioral test."

JustUhThought 10y ago
Yes, important for this study. But, my experience with the broader classification of brain drugs and medical professionals that prescribe them is that "unless it's broke don't ask to fix it, and even then put whatever we tell you into your body and let's see ehat happens." There are some excellent studies showing modafinil to benefit all doctors when performing while sleep deprived. Modifinil is pretty much as safe and addictive as caffeine. Now, try going into a doctor's office with this info and asking for a script. My experience is that 9 out of 10 times you'll be seen to be displaying addictive behavior. There are a bunch of drugs that, if properly taken, will do wonders for your mental life. Intunive, selegiline, methylphenidate, to name only a few. But, while it's legal to smoke, drink, watch tv, or eat yourself to death or into depression, acting on your own to take these drugs could land you in jail. If the US is so gung-ho on personal responsibility, let us take responsibility for our actions then, and let doctors be partners, not parents. In an age where inhanced mental or physical condition make an enormous difference in ones quality of life, stop hamstringing us from taking action so we might better ourselves.
- JustUhThought 10y ago
  Enhanced,,, ha. My bad
- api 10y ago
  "Freedom" and personal responsibility in America is largely a shibboleth-- an idea to which only empty homage is paid. In reality the USA is a highly regulated, conformist, and centrally planned society and has been since the days of "manifest destiny." This for those who don't know was the federal push to settle coast to coast and was sort of America's first centrally planned megaproject. Of course most other nations are at least as much this way if not more so. Just pointing out that America is not really special in this regard.

watermoose 10y ago

I've had ADD and slow executive function all of my life, along with a few other problems. I was in denial or at least unsure about it for years. I'd had docs diagnose me with ADD, one who tested me extensively who though ADD was overdiagnosed that said I didn't have it, and had tried natural remedies, attempted to self-treat with caffeine- probably 5-12 cans of soda a day or several cups of coffee- and had a few really bad experiences and reactions with the meds that I tried. Then I finally went to a psychiatrist that had been recommended to me by my doc and an friend of a friend and took GeneSight tests for genetic markers that indicate problems with different types of medications. I found one for ADD that was recommended and was prescribed that. It was Vyvanse which is amphetamine-based. It is lisdexamfetamine which is basically like a time-released dextroamphetamine. It becomes dextroamphetamine when the body cleaves off the lysine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine I took Vyvanse and within an hour, I had a lot more energy and felt like I was "on". I didn't have any trouble focusing and it revved up my executive function so I was not thinking as slowly. I felt like it was going to solve all of my problems. However, even though I felt great and helped with some depression I was having also, I had some negative interactions at work. After getting "called into the office" after one of those, I knew I was going to have to do something else. Away from work, though, it was a great medication to be on, and since it was time-released, so I only had to take one in the morning. I still don't think it's a bad med. I went back to the psychiatrist. She put me on Evekeo. It contains 50% levoamphetamine salts and 50% dextroamphetamine. On it, I can focus on what I'm doing like what I think a normal person does- or maybe better. I still will hear what others are saying and get distracted, but when I want to, and with help of music, I can really focus on my work. I can even focus more that I think that I could when I was younger and ADD wasn't affecting me as much. I still feel a little slower and am considering taking it and a smaller dose of dextroamphetamine. For me, it's a little like the real-world clear pill from Limitless. I think eventually what I'd like to be on would be a combination of lisdexamfetamine and levoamphetamine (or a time-released version of it). It's possible that the L-lysine of lisdexamfetamine was also having some positive affects: https://www.drugs.com/npc/lysine.html https://www.drugs.com/npc/lysine.html

Klathmon 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]