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Google's plan to deter aspiring ISIS recruits

103 points by miraj 10y ago

hyperion2010 10y ago
Now if only they would apply this to break the filter bubble.
digdigdag 10y ago
In my humble opinion, this is a bad idea. ISIS is an ephemeral problem in the world. One does not simply become a mujahideen convert from a YouTube session. More often than not, a lot of these guys and girls have lingering emotional baggage due to family life, education, their personal measure of success in life (or lack thereof), etc. What would impress me is if Google attacked the source of the problem once a for all. For ISIS to be eradicated, there has to be a fundamental paradigm shift in the way these people see the world. That means providing funds for schooling, education, access to internet and more importantly, free access to information. Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS. Why makes Jigsaw think this would work?
- cheriot 10y ago
  > funds for schooling, education, access to internet and more importantly, free access to information The ISIS recruits from western democracies had all of these things. In some cases they're recruited digitally. I'm glad someone is willing to fight the rhetorical battle with something other than bombast and saber rattling.
- cannibalcoder 10y ago
  This is so obviously the solution to the problem that it seems to be a conscious decision to propagate rather than eradicate terrorism. Bomb them into oblivion torture them and leave them in the durt. Yes this will make them love the west. Give them food, infrastructure, jobs, education? What?!?! That's crazy how could that ever help counter anti western propaganda? Just look at how easy it is to control 300 million fat lazy cable TV watching Americans. And how hard it is to control a handful of dirt poor ruined demoralized youths with no possible future (or the other way around). This pattern has played out over and over, so many times and so many places it's just a known fact. Yet we'll spend a billion dollars on bombs and bullshit and not a dime to redirect the generations who are ripe for terrorist recruiters
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  At least here, in Europe, the people who got recruited had already all of it. If western social system is not enough for the youth not to get recruited, I don't know what is. That's the problem with current crisis. Politicians really don't know how to tackle this problem, because no one from our culture room really understands the problem and locals are sick and tired of hearing we need to be nicer, give more money, more time. They already have the possibilities one can ever touch in their hine countries.
  - vkou 10y ago
    Sources? My understanding is that most of the perpetrators of recent attacks were already known to police (As thugs and petty criminals.)
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      He's talking about the guys who go to Syria to fight for ISIS, they are primarily 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants" and fresh converts. You have everything from football stars to college students dropping everything to go fight for ISIS.
  - digdigdag 10y ago
    And I bet you a lot of them also at some point felt unhappy or felt a sense of misalignment with the ideals of their host nation, despite benefiting from the spoils of a western democracy. Some of them are brought up with the belief they're living in someone elses' world -- an unwelcomed guest that people have to 'handle' or or deal with. This is the proper (and highly unpopular) course of action. There has to be a fix for this with a process to make the assimilation process that's palatable for both sides of the culture.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      >There has to be a fix for this with a process to make the assimilation process that's palatable for both sides of the culture. I'm not sure what "2 sides of the culture" are there, but if a person immigrates to France they should assimilate to the French culture, this is what assimilation means. There aren't really really 2 sides here, there is only one, and yes take it or leave while might sound harsh is pretty much the way to go because at some point you hit the tolerance paradox. >And I bet you a lot of them also at some point felt unhappy or felt a sense of misalignment with the ideals of their host nation. Well that's clearly a problem that should be addressed through education, not through "compromise". >Some of them are brought up with the belief they're living in someone elses' world -- an unwelcomed guest that people have to 'handle' or or deal with. Then again you fix that problem through education and cultural assimilation, if some one is being brought up and thought things which are antithetical to the worldview of the culture they live within it it's a problem. Moral relativism doesn't work in the real world, we had no problems telling South Africa that Apartheid was bad, no one was making an argument that it was their culture. If certain institutions are breeding ideals that are contrary to western ideals and values you deal with them on a case by case basis.
- WhitneyLand 10y ago
  >ISIS is an ephemeral problem Why do you say that? Islamic extremism has been around for decades. ISIS is just one permutation. >One does not become a mujahedin convert from one YouTube session It is well documented that US citizens have binge watched extremist propaganda on YouTube and then murdered people. Ever hear of the Boston Marathon bombers? Heavily influenced by YouTube. Another example is Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez. There are many more. >Google should...providing funds for schooling, education Do you realize that many of these guys are highly educated and even obtain in advanced degrees at respected institutions? >Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS No - I think what you are suggesting is that bad foreign policy or the middle eastern wars created ISIS. Just because bad communication and policy happened before doesn't not mean that good communication should not happen going forward. People are dying in significant part due to ideologies. Google's approach sounds like it's well worth a shot.
  - dkarapetyan 10y ago
    > Islamic extremism... Wrong emphasis I think. Extremism of any form seems to be part of the human condition. Religious zealotry is just one form and is not restricted to any one specific religion.
    - sattoshi 10y ago
      Yea like those Buddhist suicide bombers...
      - miraj 10y ago
        "Myanmar’s Buddhist Bigots" http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/opinion/malik-myanmars-buddhist-bigots.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/opinion/malik-myanmars-bud... "Meet the Violent Buddhists Starting Riots in Sri Lanka" https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-violent-buddhists-starting-riots-in-sri-lanka https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-violent-buddhists-sta...
      - xupybd 10y ago
        "Religious zealotry is just one form" I don't think the comment you are replying to was saying all extremists are religious or all religions have extremists. Peoples extremism can be totally unrelated to their religious beliefs. I'm sure there were agnostics fighting for and against the IRA, they were extremists that were agnostic. Even tho agnostics are the least likely to ever go to war over their religious beliefs it doesn't mean that they can find other reasons.
- swiley 10y ago
  In their defence: that's the whole point of AdWords, so it's not like this isn't already being done. It really is a creepy idea though not to mention antithetical to Western ideals. Furthermore the suggestion in the article that the "potential recruits" be arrested is incredibly disturbing.
  - mhurron 10y ago
    > Furthermore the suggestion in the article that the "potential recruits" be arrested is incredibly disturbing. And would probably further radicalize those targeted and those around them.
    - tormeh 10y ago
      Not necessarily. Their mothers would probably be thankful.
- sysk 10y ago
  > and more importantly, free access to information. Yeah, they should provide a search engine or something.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  ISIS is anything but an ephemeral problem. If you'll read "A Peace to End All Peace" it should become obvious that it was a near-inevitability. Most or many of the nations of the former Ottoman Empire were made up out of whole cloth by colonial powers in the region. These were often fronted by a "he might be a bastard but he's our bastard" strongman. Now that those regimes have been either bombed out of existence, by invasion or have collapsed under their own weight ( or both ), there's a power vacuum. There is a documentary I can't quite place now about the case of Abu Mansoor Al-Amriki. It involves someone who who lives in ... Canada? who does deprogramming of foreign-born Jihadis. This is analogous to deprogramming cult members. IMO, this is a worthy effort.
- hasenj 10y ago
  > emotional baggage due to family life, education, their personal measure of success in life The emotional baggage is often due to none of that, but to an identity crisis and the search for a tribe to belong to.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  Google's thing is 'tech', and they control the worlds biggest websites, so they're doing that _they_ can uniquely do. There are plenty of other people, organisations, and governments with money that can be spent on 'education'
- GordonS 10y ago
  > Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS Great comment. I think you are right, and in the same way this plan could do more harm than good
patall 10y ago
Honestly, such projects keep me shivering at night. This time it is ISIS, next time it is an anti-google activist group, a political movement or what ever. If anyone should have such power, it should be the government and not a private actor. Even then it is very brave new world like. And then they even extend it to giving notice of persons who might be sympesizing with ISIS: thoughtcrime, more or less. I am avare that almost everybody is doing similar things on the net but still, this is alarming
- WhitneyLand 10y ago
  What are you talking about? You have the same power right now, just go open an AdWords account. Your fear should not be of Google it should be of money. The more of it you have the more you can get your agenda in front of people.
  - makomk 10y ago
    You have the power to do the same thing, far less effectively (because less money and less knowledge of AdWords), for as long as Google choose to permit you to. That's not the same power as Google have at all.
- h1d 10y ago
  I agree. It can potentially affect people in ways corporate want them to think. If google results are biased on some fresh field I'm mot accustomed to, I may feel that's the majority's thinking. And ISIS related researchers may be flagged to be a potential terrorist candidate.
- cromwellian 10y ago
  Slippery slope arguments are pretty much a corollary of Godwin's law when it comes to internet debates. We can't regulate guns right? because first it'll be a 3 day waiting period, then it'll be infinity, and next we'll have the Stasi with jackboots on our necks? Let's convict people based on what they actually do, not what they could do.
dguido 10y ago
For all the conspiracy theorists and people crying "who will they go after next": All that's happening here is a non-profit is buying ads for common ISIS-related search terms and displaying anti-ISIS advertisements. You know, exactly like millions of people use Google ads for politics, selling things, etc. They're even getting external funding from donors to buy the ads. It astounds me that anyone could be against this. How are ads ok for selling your shitty SaaS product but they are not ok for convincing people not to murder one another?
- deleted 10y ago
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- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  To be clear, this is not the first nor will it be the last time Google's "Jigsaw" has gotten involved in politics. It's CEO, Jared Cohen, worked for Hillary Clinton at the State department, and once at Google, had emailed back and forth with her about Google helping encourage revolution in Syria. I don't want to see a Trump White House, but I am also sad that if Clinton wins, Google's influence in the White House will continue, or expand. Considering Google's width of influence and overall power, it should be looked at as an international threat, because we have no way of knowing what they'll use that power for next. Anti-brainwashing is great, until you realize it's not much different than straight-up brainwashing. Google is proud to admit it uses manipulative tactics to subconsciously trick it's own employees into eating healther. Again, laudable goal, questionable moral ethics. I actually had an extended argument with a Googler here on HN earlier this week about Google's apparent happiness to manipulate people's views to suit it's goals.
  - makomk 10y ago
    Also, as with anything in politics, it's easy to justify truly horrific things using noble-sounding arguments. For example, who wouldn't want to protect civilians? No-one, which is why when Clinton's State Department and the UK government used it to justify catastrophic military intervention in Libya few questioned it. Yet according to recent committee report, the threat was questionable and the groups we supported dangerous: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-da... It wouldn't take much of a slide down the slippery slope at all for Google to back those groups, or their Syrian equivalent, in the name of stopping murder - or for them to discredit claims that the groups we're backing are killing civilians.
cannibalcoder 10y ago
This seems to be just one more instance of ISIS providing a very valuable service to western powers. In this case giving a "sympathetic" target for testing out search based propaganda/information switching techniques. No one could argue that this plan is bad or dangerous. They are stopping ISIS! But wait till you search for info on Ed Snowden and get "counter" articles shoved down your throat. And then the FBI shows up. It really is interesting how many objectives ISIS has helped advance for US powers and how difficult it has been for us to actually hit one of their camps with a missle. Russians seem to be able to do it no problem, but then they have different global agendas from us.
- meric 10y ago
  ISIS got started from funding rebels against Assad...
  - cannibalcoder 10y ago
    Yep, and Assad was against the Qatar turkey natural gas pipe line. Which would hurt Russia, so on the one hand we want Assad out so the pipeline could be built but on the other hand we don't want stability in the region so we hem and haw and refuse to take decisive action in the conflict. iSIS is very helpful in this aim. Russia gets screwed. Middle East gets screwed, we get a new reason for tons of defense/anti-terrorism funding. This whole thing seems to be working out pretty well! Seriously it's all out there clear as day. They don't even bother trying to hide.
    - meric 10y ago
      US airstrikes directly supporting ISIS troops against Syrian Army. http://www.dawn.com/news/1284465/us-led-coalition-raid-hits-syria-army-as-truce-wavers http://www.dawn.com/news/1284465/us-led-coalition-raid-hits-...
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    That and Sunni Muslims being driven out of Iraq. The story from "Charlie Wilson's War" keeps on permanent repeat...
deleted 10y ago
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krick 10y ago
I'd imagine all these pro-privacy guys cheering right now, shouting "we told you where this is going!" if only it wouldn't be so terrifying and not funny at all. First they collect your personal data to show you ads, and people don't mind, because why not? Then they monopolize the market more and more, and basically all your data ends up in their hands, making them know you literally better than yourself do (as you don't normally quantify your life and are not watching over yourself really well). And people don't mind again, because "I have nothing to hide". Then they are officially profiling their clients to use the data for political purposes. First this might be ads, then some more. And people won't mind again, because it's unacceptable for USA citizen not to hate ISIS (but it doesn't really matter what is the most iconic black sheep at the moment). Then (at the moment, actually, but just in China[1] for now) the most used social network is running "citizen loyalty bonus-points" program. And people are accepting still, because it's all so cool and nice and what not. And even though it might seem terrifying to some, I don't think "the people" will ever actually regret this: the "acceptable norm" will just become narrower and narrower, and everything else will be treated as a criminal offense, a sickness that must be cured. It makes me think that this is just how life goes, the natural way an organism evolves. But the thought of it makes me feel sick anyway. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI
- oliv__ 10y ago
  That video was scary.
  - john_reel 10y ago
    But it’s not real.
    - krick 10y ago
      Is it not? There are other sources, e.g. BBC[1], but I haven't seen any trustworthy sources that would state otherwise. [1] - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186
hkdobrev 10y ago
Imagine terrorist organisations leaders sitting down and discussing their marketing and funding plan for ad blockers.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  ISIS makes pretty sophisticated use of media now. So I would not be surprised. The whole thing is threaded together by fancy cell phones in the same way that the printing press was used in the European Protestant Reformation.
ilaksh 10y ago
Information control is an extremely important aspect of real power, including military success. Most will not believe me, but I will say it anyway: the popular media, even in the United States, is full of war propaganda (in the traditional sense). Google has a direct tap into minds via search. This is problematic because their virtual monopoly means they dominate information control and shaping. This means Google can shape reality and is the most powerful war propaganda tool ever deployed. Of course it is also generally indispensible in other ways, which is the problem.
finid 10y ago
I don't actually mind using any method to fight ISIS or other terror groups, but the part that gets me is fighting them in one place and using them to further our goals in another place. I don't understand that.
pgnas 10y ago
Google actively supports the party that created ISIS and actively engages in censorship of the truth regarding the crimes of those involved. I can't even begin to read this article, the whole precept triggers vomit. Google has become everything they said they were not ;their "don't be evil" motto is a joke as they are involved in so many things that are destroying my nation ( the US) as well as others around the world. Please, let's not put a golden light on this demon, they are a regressive, oppressive company working with nations around the globe to subjugate its citizens into a prison. If they support the Democratic Party of the United States, which they do in many ways, they are, in effect, an arm of ISIS. If you disagree, you most definitely have not done your homework as it is abundantly clear through leaked emails and cables. So, please, I can't stomach anymore BS PR nonsense .
- SolarNet 10y ago
  Oh yea that's right, I forgot President Bush was a Democrat, silly me. Get real, both parties are at fault.
  - pgnas 10y ago
    I never said anything about bush. I agree, he was a leader that perpetuates conflict and the military industrial complex, however, the "progressives" are a class who hide behind the cloak of racism, social justice and supremacy. I never said I agreed with the republicans and bush, you ASS-U-MEd. This is the problem with the US political system, the two parties are leveraged against one another. If everyone actually turned off the television and looked at non-traditional, government controlled media, they would see what is really going on. This is not a game of left/right, democrat/republican, this is the people who are interested in protecting and preserving the US and the ideals which it was founded that resulted in the rise of the most prosperous nation of our time. Unfortunately, as usual, history is the greatest predictor of the future, has shown that prosperous nations have moved to communism, facism or socialism and eventually implode. So, don't just jump to conclusions and maybe read a couple of history books before you open your mouth.
  - pgnas 10y ago
    By the way, Barry and company got a pass for the first term. Everything that happened during the second term, is on him and his minions.
syphilis2 10y ago
I may be reading unwritten lines, but is Google selling its advertising platform to the US Government as a way to show targeted people anti-ISIS messaging?
meira 10y ago
This kind of News is so fun. Google supported ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria, we'll not forget.
gjolund 10y ago
Another terrible idea from the SJW's at Google.
tmptmp 10y ago
This is good. I hope Google puts this book (which the author has made freely available now) [1] also in their results. This way, if a relatively highly educated person (e.g. a person with university degree) searches something related to ISIS, gets a chance to read this eye-opening book about the roots of the evil ideology of Islam, which is what ISIS is based on. More important thing to note here is that with Islam we are facing similar problems as the problems faced by the Europeans during the times of Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo when there was a reign of the church and Bible through kings. Fortunately and due to the enormous sacrifices and efforts made by many humans at that time, the west has successfully defeated the vice regime of Christianity and Church [2]. So we must understand that currently the biggest threat to the western freedom loving society is from the vicious ideology of Islam which is at crossroads with the modern liberal western civilized world. There is a great threat also from the pseudo-liberals who are practicing double standards when it comes to the issue of critical study of Islam. These pseudo-liberal Islam apologists (whether bought and paid for or not) are hunting down any thoughtful and legitimate criticism of Islam, its prophet Muhammad and its scriptures from the public discourses. They are using various types of pressure tactics for this. For example, they are labeling any criticism of Islam as racist attacks on Muslims or as Islamophobia or as right wing acts. The freedom lovers, liberals and humanists must understand this threat posed by the vicious ideology of mainstream Islam. These views by Bill Maher and Sam Harris may help understand this point in a better way. [3], [4], [5] Should we be against Muslims? No, we must distinguish between Islam as ideology and Muslims as victims of this vicious ideology. In fact, it should be noted that the fight must be with Islam and not with general Muslim population and that the fight must be on the ideological front. [1] http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/ http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-down... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_state_in_medieval_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_state_in_medieval_E... [3] https://www.samharris.org/islam https://www.samharris.org/islam [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nh8_BK7ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nh8_BK7ok
muriithi 10y ago
When can we start seeing ads targeting Americans with links to the disastrous effects of "regime changes" and invasion of countries to effect "democratic change"?
- nklas 10y ago
  Well said, have an upvote.
caub 10y ago
google is my religion
hubert123 10y ago
mate you are so far up that ivory tower, you might break ur neck if you ever fall down. 9/11 being an inside job has plenty of evidence for example. You live in your neat little world where everything is fine and the big bad crazies need to be muffled.
- dang 10y ago
  Personal attacks aren't allowed in HN comments. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12524538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12524538 and marked it off-topic.

103 points by miraj 10y ago

hyperion2010 10y ago

Now if only they would apply this to break the filter bubble.

In my humble opinion, this is a bad idea. ISIS is an ephemeral problem in the world. One does not simply become a mujahideen convert from a YouTube session. More often than not, a lot of these guys and girls have lingering emotional baggage due to family life, education, their personal measure of success in life (or lack thereof), etc. What would impress me is if Google attacked the source of the problem once a for all. For ISIS to be eradicated, there has to be a fundamental paradigm shift in the way these people see the world. That means providing funds for schooling, education, access to internet and more importantly, free access to information. Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS. Why makes Jigsaw think this would work?

cheriot 10y ago
> funds for schooling, education, access to internet and more importantly, free access to information The ISIS recruits from western democracies had all of these things. In some cases they're recruited digitally. I'm glad someone is willing to fight the rhetorical battle with something other than bombast and saber rattling.
cannibalcoder 10y ago
This is so obviously the solution to the problem that it seems to be a conscious decision to propagate rather than eradicate terrorism. Bomb them into oblivion torture them and leave them in the durt. Yes this will make them love the west. Give them food, infrastructure, jobs, education? What?!?! That's crazy how could that ever help counter anti western propaganda? Just look at how easy it is to control 300 million fat lazy cable TV watching Americans. And how hard it is to control a handful of dirt poor ruined demoralized youths with no possible future (or the other way around). This pattern has played out over and over, so many times and so many places it's just a known fact. Yet we'll spend a billion dollars on bombs and bullshit and not a dime to redirect the generations who are ripe for terrorist recruiters
angry-hacker 10y ago
At least here, in Europe, the people who got recruited had already all of it. If western social system is not enough for the youth not to get recruited, I don't know what is. That's the problem with current crisis. Politicians really don't know how to tackle this problem, because no one from our culture room really understands the problem and locals are sick and tired of hearing we need to be nicer, give more money, more time. They already have the possibilities one can ever touch in their hine countries.
- vkou 10y ago
  Sources? My understanding is that most of the perpetrators of recent attacks were already known to police (As thugs and petty criminals.)
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    He's talking about the guys who go to Syria to fight for ISIS, they are primarily 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants" and fresh converts. You have everything from football stars to college students dropping everything to go fight for ISIS.
- digdigdag 10y ago
  And I bet you a lot of them also at some point felt unhappy or felt a sense of misalignment with the ideals of their host nation, despite benefiting from the spoils of a western democracy. Some of them are brought up with the belief they're living in someone elses' world -- an unwelcomed guest that people have to 'handle' or or deal with. This is the proper (and highly unpopular) course of action. There has to be a fix for this with a process to make the assimilation process that's palatable for both sides of the culture.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    >There has to be a fix for this with a process to make the assimilation process that's palatable for both sides of the culture. I'm not sure what "2 sides of the culture" are there, but if a person immigrates to France they should assimilate to the French culture, this is what assimilation means. There aren't really really 2 sides here, there is only one, and yes take it or leave while might sound harsh is pretty much the way to go because at some point you hit the tolerance paradox. >And I bet you a lot of them also at some point felt unhappy or felt a sense of misalignment with the ideals of their host nation. Well that's clearly a problem that should be addressed through education, not through "compromise". >Some of them are brought up with the belief they're living in someone elses' world -- an unwelcomed guest that people have to 'handle' or or deal with. Then again you fix that problem through education and cultural assimilation, if some one is being brought up and thought things which are antithetical to the worldview of the culture they live within it it's a problem. Moral relativism doesn't work in the real world, we had no problems telling South Africa that Apartheid was bad, no one was making an argument that it was their culture. If certain institutions are breeding ideals that are contrary to western ideals and values you deal with them on a case by case basis.
WhitneyLand 10y ago
>ISIS is an ephemeral problem Why do you say that? Islamic extremism has been around for decades. ISIS is just one permutation. >One does not become a mujahedin convert from one YouTube session It is well documented that US citizens have binge watched extremist propaganda on YouTube and then murdered people. Ever hear of the Boston Marathon bombers? Heavily influenced by YouTube. Another example is Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez. There are many more. >Google should...providing funds for schooling, education Do you realize that many of these guys are highly educated and even obtain in advanced degrees at respected institutions? >Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS No - I think what you are suggesting is that bad foreign policy or the middle eastern wars created ISIS. Just because bad communication and policy happened before doesn't not mean that good communication should not happen going forward. People are dying in significant part due to ideologies. Google's approach sounds like it's well worth a shot.
- dkarapetyan 10y ago
  > Islamic extremism... Wrong emphasis I think. Extremism of any form seems to be part of the human condition. Religious zealotry is just one form and is not restricted to any one specific religion.
  - sattoshi 10y ago
    Yea like those Buddhist suicide bombers...
    - miraj 10y ago
      "Myanmar’s Buddhist Bigots" http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/opinion/malik-myanmars-buddhist-bigots.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/opinion/malik-myanmars-bud... "Meet the Violent Buddhists Starting Riots in Sri Lanka" https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-violent-buddhists-starting-riots-in-sri-lanka https://news.vice.com/article/meet-the-violent-buddhists-sta...
    - xupybd 10y ago
      "Religious zealotry is just one form" I don't think the comment you are replying to was saying all extremists are religious or all religions have extremists. Peoples extremism can be totally unrelated to their religious beliefs. I'm sure there were agnostics fighting for and against the IRA, they were extremists that were agnostic. Even tho agnostics are the least likely to ever go to war over their religious beliefs it doesn't mean that they can find other reasons.
swiley 10y ago
In their defence: that's the whole point of AdWords, so it's not like this isn't already being done. It really is a creepy idea though not to mention antithetical to Western ideals. Furthermore the suggestion in the article that the "potential recruits" be arrested is incredibly disturbing.
- mhurron 10y ago
  > Furthermore the suggestion in the article that the "potential recruits" be arrested is incredibly disturbing. And would probably further radicalize those targeted and those around them.
  - tormeh 10y ago
    Not necessarily. Their mothers would probably be thankful.
sysk 10y ago
> and more importantly, free access to information. Yeah, they should provide a search engine or something.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
ISIS is anything but an ephemeral problem. If you'll read "A Peace to End All Peace" it should become obvious that it was a near-inevitability. Most or many of the nations of the former Ottoman Empire were made up out of whole cloth by colonial powers in the region. These were often fronted by a "he might be a bastard but he's our bastard" strongman. Now that those regimes have been either bombed out of existence, by invasion or have collapsed under their own weight ( or both ), there's a power vacuum. There is a documentary I can't quite place now about the case of Abu Mansoor Al-Amriki. It involves someone who who lives in ... Canada? who does deprogramming of foreign-born Jihadis. This is analogous to deprogramming cult members. IMO, this is a worthy effort.
hasenj 10y ago
> emotional baggage due to family life, education, their personal measure of success in life The emotional baggage is often due to none of that, but to an identity crisis and the search for a tribe to belong to.
madeofpalk 10y ago
Google's thing is 'tech', and they control the worlds biggest websites, so they're doing that _they_ can uniquely do. There are plenty of other people, organisations, and governments with money that can be spent on 'education'
GordonS 10y ago
> Attempting to shape information into one that fits a certain narrative is what gave birth to ISIS Great comment. I think you are right, and in the same way this plan could do more harm than good

patall 10y ago

Honestly, such projects keep me shivering at night. This time it is ISIS, next time it is an anti-google activist group, a political movement or what ever. If anyone should have such power, it should be the government and not a private actor. Even then it is very brave new world like. And then they even extend it to giving notice of persons who might be sympesizing with ISIS: thoughtcrime, more or less. I am avare that almost everybody is doing similar things on the net but still, this is alarming

WhitneyLand 10y ago
What are you talking about? You have the same power right now, just go open an AdWords account. Your fear should not be of Google it should be of money. The more of it you have the more you can get your agenda in front of people.
- makomk 10y ago
  You have the power to do the same thing, far less effectively (because less money and less knowledge of AdWords), for as long as Google choose to permit you to. That's not the same power as Google have at all.
h1d 10y ago
I agree. It can potentially affect people in ways corporate want them to think. If google results are biased on some fresh field I'm mot accustomed to, I may feel that's the majority's thinking. And ISIS related researchers may be flagged to be a potential terrorist candidate.
cromwellian 10y ago
Slippery slope arguments are pretty much a corollary of Godwin's law when it comes to internet debates. We can't regulate guns right? because first it'll be a 3 day waiting period, then it'll be infinity, and next we'll have the Stasi with jackboots on our necks? Let's convict people based on what they actually do, not what they could do.

dguido 10y ago

For all the conspiracy theorists and people crying "who will they go after next": All that's happening here is a non-profit is buying ads for common ISIS-related search terms and displaying anti-ISIS advertisements. You know, exactly like millions of people use Google ads for politics, selling things, etc. They're even getting external funding from donors to buy the ads. It astounds me that anyone could be against this. How are ads ok for selling your shitty SaaS product but they are not ok for convincing people not to murder one another?

deleted 10y ago
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ocdtrekkie 10y ago
To be clear, this is not the first nor will it be the last time Google's "Jigsaw" has gotten involved in politics. It's CEO, Jared Cohen, worked for Hillary Clinton at the State department, and once at Google, had emailed back and forth with her about Google helping encourage revolution in Syria. I don't want to see a Trump White House, but I am also sad that if Clinton wins, Google's influence in the White House will continue, or expand. Considering Google's width of influence and overall power, it should be looked at as an international threat, because we have no way of knowing what they'll use that power for next. Anti-brainwashing is great, until you realize it's not much different than straight-up brainwashing. Google is proud to admit it uses manipulative tactics to subconsciously trick it's own employees into eating healther. Again, laudable goal, questionable moral ethics. I actually had an extended argument with a Googler here on HN earlier this week about Google's apparent happiness to manipulate people's views to suit it's goals.
- makomk 10y ago
  Also, as with anything in politics, it's easy to justify truly horrific things using noble-sounding arguments. For example, who wouldn't want to protect civilians? No-one, which is why when Clinton's State Department and the UK government used it to justify catastrophic military intervention in Libya few questioned it. Yet according to recent committee report, the threat was questionable and the groups we supported dangerous: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-da... It wouldn't take much of a slide down the slippery slope at all for Google to back those groups, or their Syrian equivalent, in the name of stopping murder - or for them to discredit claims that the groups we're backing are killing civilians.

cannibalcoder 10y ago

This seems to be just one more instance of ISIS providing a very valuable service to western powers. In this case giving a "sympathetic" target for testing out search based propaganda/information switching techniques. No one could argue that this plan is bad or dangerous. They are stopping ISIS! But wait till you search for info on Ed Snowden and get "counter" articles shoved down your throat. And then the FBI shows up. It really is interesting how many objectives ISIS has helped advance for US powers and how difficult it has been for us to actually hit one of their camps with a missle. Russians seem to be able to do it no problem, but then they have different global agendas from us.

meric 10y ago
ISIS got started from funding rebels against Assad...
- cannibalcoder 10y ago
  Yep, and Assad was against the Qatar turkey natural gas pipe line. Which would hurt Russia, so on the one hand we want Assad out so the pipeline could be built but on the other hand we don't want stability in the region so we hem and haw and refuse to take decisive action in the conflict. iSIS is very helpful in this aim. Russia gets screwed. Middle East gets screwed, we get a new reason for tons of defense/anti-terrorism funding. This whole thing seems to be working out pretty well! Seriously it's all out there clear as day. They don't even bother trying to hide.
  - meric 10y ago
    US airstrikes directly supporting ISIS troops against Syrian Army. http://www.dawn.com/news/1284465/us-led-coalition-raid-hits-syria-army-as-truce-wavers http://www.dawn.com/news/1284465/us-led-coalition-raid-hits-...
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  That and Sunni Muslims being driven out of Iraq. The story from "Charlie Wilson's War" keeps on permanent repeat...

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krick 10y ago

I'd imagine all these pro-privacy guys cheering right now, shouting "we told you where this is going!" if only it wouldn't be so terrifying and not funny at all. First they collect your personal data to show you ads, and people don't mind, because why not? Then they monopolize the market more and more, and basically all your data ends up in their hands, making them know you literally better than yourself do (as you don't normally quantify your life and are not watching over yourself really well). And people don't mind again, because "I have nothing to hide". Then they are officially profiling their clients to use the data for political purposes. First this might be ads, then some more. And people won't mind again, because it's unacceptable for USA citizen not to hate ISIS (but it doesn't really matter what is the most iconic black sheep at the moment). Then (at the moment, actually, but just in China[1] for now) the most used social network is running "citizen loyalty bonus-points" program. And people are accepting still, because it's all so cool and nice and what not. And even though it might seem terrifying to some, I don't think "the people" will ever actually regret this: the "acceptable norm" will just become narrower and narrower, and everything else will be treated as a criminal offense, a sickness that must be cured. It makes me think that this is just how life goes, the natural way an organism evolves. But the thought of it makes me feel sick anyway. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

oliv__ 10y ago
That video was scary.
- john_reel 10y ago
  But it’s not real.
  - krick 10y ago
    Is it not? There are other sources, e.g. BBC[1], but I haven't seen any trustworthy sources that would state otherwise. [1] - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34592186

hkdobrev 10y ago

Imagine terrorist organisations leaders sitting down and discussing their marketing and funding plan for ad blockers.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago
ISIS makes pretty sophisticated use of media now. So I would not be surprised. The whole thing is threaded together by fancy cell phones in the same way that the printing press was used in the European Protestant Reformation.

ilaksh 10y ago

Information control is an extremely important aspect of real power, including military success. Most will not believe me, but I will say it anyway: the popular media, even in the United States, is full of war propaganda (in the traditional sense). Google has a direct tap into minds via search. This is problematic because their virtual monopoly means they dominate information control and shaping. This means Google can shape reality and is the most powerful war propaganda tool ever deployed. Of course it is also generally indispensible in other ways, which is the problem.

finid 10y ago

I don't actually mind using any method to fight ISIS or other terror groups, but the part that gets me is fighting them in one place and using them to further our goals in another place. I don't understand that.

pgnas 10y ago

Google actively supports the party that created ISIS and actively engages in censorship of the truth regarding the crimes of those involved. I can't even begin to read this article, the whole precept triggers vomit. Google has become everything they said they were not ;their "don't be evil" motto is a joke as they are involved in so many things that are destroying my nation ( the US) as well as others around the world. Please, let's not put a golden light on this demon, they are a regressive, oppressive company working with nations around the globe to subjugate its citizens into a prison. If they support the Democratic Party of the United States, which they do in many ways, they are, in effect, an arm of ISIS. If you disagree, you most definitely have not done your homework as it is abundantly clear through leaked emails and cables. So, please, I can't stomach anymore BS PR nonsense .

SolarNet 10y ago
Oh yea that's right, I forgot President Bush was a Democrat, silly me. Get real, both parties are at fault.
- pgnas 10y ago
  I never said anything about bush. I agree, he was a leader that perpetuates conflict and the military industrial complex, however, the "progressives" are a class who hide behind the cloak of racism, social justice and supremacy. I never said I agreed with the republicans and bush, you ASS-U-MEd. This is the problem with the US political system, the two parties are leveraged against one another. If everyone actually turned off the television and looked at non-traditional, government controlled media, they would see what is really going on. This is not a game of left/right, democrat/republican, this is the people who are interested in protecting and preserving the US and the ideals which it was founded that resulted in the rise of the most prosperous nation of our time. Unfortunately, as usual, history is the greatest predictor of the future, has shown that prosperous nations have moved to communism, facism or socialism and eventually implode. So, don't just jump to conclusions and maybe read a couple of history books before you open your mouth.
- pgnas 10y ago
  By the way, Barry and company got a pass for the first term. Everything that happened during the second term, is on him and his minions.

syphilis2 10y ago

I may be reading unwritten lines, but is Google selling its advertising platform to the US Government as a way to show targeted people anti-ISIS messaging?

meira 10y ago

This kind of News is so fun. Google supported ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria, we'll not forget.

gjolund 10y ago

Another terrible idea from the SJW's at Google.

tmptmp 10y ago

This is good. I hope Google puts this book (which the author has made freely available now) [1] also in their results. This way, if a relatively highly educated person (e.g. a person with university degree) searches something related to ISIS, gets a chance to read this eye-opening book about the roots of the evil ideology of Islam, which is what ISIS is based on. More important thing to note here is that with Islam we are facing similar problems as the problems faced by the Europeans during the times of Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo when there was a reign of the church and Bible through kings. Fortunately and due to the enormous sacrifices and efforts made by many humans at that time, the west has successfully defeated the vice regime of Christianity and Church [2]. So we must understand that currently the biggest threat to the western freedom loving society is from the vicious ideology of Islam which is at crossroads with the modern liberal western civilized world. There is a great threat also from the pseudo-liberals who are practicing double standards when it comes to the issue of critical study of Islam. These pseudo-liberal Islam apologists (whether bought and paid for or not) are hunting down any thoughtful and legitimate criticism of Islam, its prophet Muhammad and its scriptures from the public discourses. They are using various types of pressure tactics for this. For example, they are labeling any criticism of Islam as racist attacks on Muslims or as Islamophobia or as right wing acts. The freedom lovers, liberals and humanists must understand this threat posed by the vicious ideology of mainstream Islam. These views by Bill Maher and Sam Harris may help understand this point in a better way. [3], [4], [5] Should we be against Muslims? No, we must distinguish between Islam as ideology and Muslims as victims of this vicious ideology. In fact, it should be noted that the fight must be with Islam and not with general Muslim population and that the fight must be on the ideological front. [1] http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/ http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-down... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_state_in_medieval_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_and_state_in_medieval_E... [3] https://www.samharris.org/islam https://www.samharris.org/islam [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nh8_BK7ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nh8_BK7ok

muriithi 10y ago

When can we start seeing ads targeting Americans with links to the disastrous effects of "regime changes" and invasion of countries to effect "democratic change"?

nklas 10y ago
Well said, have an upvote.

caub 10y ago

google is my religion

hubert123 10y ago

mate you are so far up that ivory tower, you might break ur neck if you ever fall down. 9/11 being an inside job has plenty of evidence for example. You live in your neat little world where everything is fine and the big bad crazies need to be muffled.

dang 10y ago
Personal attacks aren't allowed in HN comments. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12524538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12524538 and marked it off-topic.