9 ms·

I don't really have a politically correct way to say this: What a horseshit maneuver by Apple.

by icey 17y ago

api 17y ago
I have been a very loyal mac user for years and love it, but I'm seriously considering going back to Linux. I am not a free software "zealot" and don't mind some closed-ness, but this is getting absolutely insane. Enforcing which LANGUAGES can be used on a platform?!? Insane! Edit: I've been looking at these guys: http://www.system76.com/ http://www.system76.com/ (I don't work with or have any vested interest in them, but they look cool.)
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- jxcole 17y ago
  I have a lap top from them. It works well.
- kqr2 17y ago
  Ubuntu will run on most laptops, including mac books, so need to go with a special vendor. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook I actually went the opposite route and installed mac os on a netbook. http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-i...
- Zak 17y ago
  Boycotting the Mac platform (which is pretty much free of any such absurdity) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That's where Apple is doing things right. You should of course, shun iPhone OS devices if you feel this way. The system76 laptops are probably generic machines from Clevo, Sager or some such with a custom badge. Alienware used to do the same thing.
  - markkoberlein 17y ago
    I wonder if Leo Laporte is going to be right about how he thinks that will Apple eventually stop making macs so that they can focus on more closed or controlled platforms like the iPod, iPhone, and now the iPad. They seem to be pretty good at making money with the closed systems. Maybe the next iBook will just be a foldable iPad with the same closed OS.
    - Raphael 17y ago
      I predict the differences will shrink and disappear. The desktops and laptops will get touch input and iPhone apps, and the closed platforms will round out in specs and features.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - jsz0 17y ago
      Maybe someday but for now Mac sales are going up -- not down. I can't imagine they'd walk away from that market. I could see the two platforms merging in certain ways. For instance if you added a multi-touch screen to the current MacBook, retaining the keyboard/touchpad, you'd have an interesting platform. You'd have desktop multi-touch apps very similar to iPad apps but you'd also be able to use traditional OSX apps. There could be some system wide multi-touch features along the lines of what they're doing with the multi-touch trackpads already to enhance these applications.
  - kqr2 17y ago
    Yes, but it's the content creators that are developing the apps and making the iPad/iPhone a more valuable platform. Boycotting Apple's content creation tools and consequently not developing for the iPad/iPhone is one way to send a message.
    - kgroll 17y ago
      I've been wondering about this a bit lately. I've so far chosen not to support the iPhone OS for the reason you mention, instead favoring Android. However, I'm ultimately interested in serving my application to the largest number of people, and it seems clear to me that the App Store is the best way to achieve that today. So, do you cave in and develop an iPhone version? Or, do you stand by your morals, and, in turn, limit your audience?
- mjgoins 17y ago
  I have a Starling Netbook from system76. Nothing to write home about, but I've had few, if any real problems with it. It's a little flimsy, physically. And I am a proud free software zealot, so I moved it to debian.
  - parula 17y ago
    That's strange, because I also have a System76 Starling and it seems very sturdy to me. I even dropped it once and it was none the worse for wear. It's been a very hardy and well-functioning machine for me.
  - api 17y ago
    Hmm... if it's flimsy I probably wouldn't like it. One thing I don't like about Apple hardware is how you have to treat it like a family heirloom or it turns into a scratched up mess. Anything less hardy than that would be unusable. Toughbooks are also promising, but they're light on the specs... could someone please make a durable and well-specced laptop?
    - grinich 17y ago
      IBM?
      - maigret 17y ago
        IBM laptops aren't anymore - bought by Lenovo a few years ago.
    - scdlbx 17y ago
      I wasn't particularly gentle with my MacBook Pro and it never got scratched or damaged.
    - more_original 17y ago
      I moved to a Thinkpad (from a Powerbook) two years ago and couldn't be happier. Ubuntu just works and the hardware feels more solid that the Powerbook did.
- papachito 17y ago
  > I am not a free software "zealot" and don't mind some closed-ness Maybe we were not that zealot after all when we free software "zealot" said that proprietary software allow their owners to treat their users badly and that eventually, this happens to every proprietary software. Just saying. It amazes me how surprised users of proprietary software are every time they get screwed by their masters even though this has been happening for the last 30 years.
  - bad_user 17y ago
    There are products and there are platforms. Products are OK to be proprietary as long as the value provided is top-notch. Sorry, but I don't see profesional designers using Gimp over Photoshop. Relying on a platform for your existence is a different story. But as a business you need alliances with other businesses, and not just in software. And everybody can pull the plug on you, that's why reputation matters and in many cases it's all you need. About free software, programmers need to eat too. Myself I use open-source everywhere, but for the last 7 years I've been doing consultancy work (turn-key apps that are never released in any form or web services that put a lock on your data ... the worst kind of closed systems). And until you'll teach me a business model that would empower me to work on "free software" while providing for my family, then I'll keep doing it. Until then it's only fair I get paid for my work, that's why I consider the free software philosophy as extremist bullshit.
    - minalecs 17y ago
      lets see theres training, and consulting, theres offer the free version, and charge for a more robust paid version, theres pay for customization and don't forget ads. There are many ways to have a business model around "free software". Red Hat, Canonical, and Google are just some of the companies that have found valid business models around "free software".
      - bad_user 17y ago
        > Red Hat, Canonical, and Google are just some of the companies that have found valid business models around "free software". That's a fallacy. The majority of open-source sponsors are selling closed systems or services to sponsor their "free software" involvement. Google doesn't have a business model around "free software". Neither does IBM or Sun. I'm also not Mozilla and my apps would probably never get in front of 40% of all Internet users. Even if I'm that lucky, it's probably not going to be a desktop app that's used to search for stuff. To get paid for customizations, your software also has to be really popular for businesses (consumers don't pay for that, they either endure it or search for something better). Did I mentioned that I don't live in Silicon Valley nor in Cambridge, but in an Eastern European country? So training is off. I already mentioned consulting, but then I would be a hypocrite if I promoted the free software ideology while working on the worst kind of closed software, wouldn't I? Anything else?
- jfoutz 17y ago
  It's almost like refusing to accept patches that are written in anything but vanilla C. It's almost like they are claiming if you can't at least code in C you probably aren't smart enough to submit patches anyway.
- blub 17y ago
  You do realize that your decision is purely based on feeling and irrational? NEVER make decisions when you are emotional unless it's a life and death matter and you must act immediately.
- m234 17y ago
  Well, you're on the best way of becoming a "free software zealot". See, free software zealots by and large are what they are because they invested a ton of time and effort in some platform only to have that destroyed by a stupid or greedy management decision.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
flatline 17y ago
Yeah, I really thought all the hysteria about how Apple will crush small children's hopes and dreams by distributing a closed platform that does not allow tinkering was off base until now. This has much more the flavor of intent to put a stranglehold on the device above and beyond handicapping their competitors.
axod 17y ago
Just make a webapp :/ all the freedom you need.
- icey 17y ago
  How well does that work for gaming? I like playing around with Unity3D; I have a hard time thinking that HTML5 is going to give the same experience.
  - jasonlotito 17y ago
    Actually... http://learningwebgl.com/blog/ http://learningwebgl.com/blog/ =)
- abstractbill 17y ago
  Freedom to have no access to the camera or microphone, for example?
  - axod 17y ago
    It'll get there... You can already have access to the multi-touch stuff via javascript. idk, I've never thought the appstore was anything but a stop gap personally, and developing for it a crazy risk.
    - wvenable 17y ago
      It won't get there before the iPhone is obsolete. You really think that web apps are ever going to get access the microphone or the camera? Also, a stop gap? I think there's an app for that.
      - axod 17y ago
        >> "You really think that web apps are ever going to get access the microphone or the camera?" Definitely, if other phones or devices have such capabilities, and a killer webapp comes out that uses them. If I was Apple I'd just shut the App store down to get rid of all the ungrateful developers. Sorry, but it's their show. They get to decide if you can play, and what the rules are. If you don't like it, don't play with them.
midnightmonster 17y ago
With much deliberation, I had got to where I could accept the ipad--window on the future of computing--being a walled (and barbed-wired, and guarded) garden. I was planning to get a 3G iPad if I have any money left after taxes, and a WiFi one for my wife soon. But this... I think this is farther than I'm willing to go. And even if they were to back down on this requirement (as they did on the original NDA)... I'm rambling, but I feel hurt by this.

I don't really have a politically correct way to say this: What a horseshit maneuver by Apple.

by icey 17y ago

I don't really have a politically correct way to say this: What a horseshit maneuver by Apple.

api 17y ago

I have been a very loyal mac user for years and love it, but I'm seriously considering going back to Linux. I am not a free software "zealot" and don't mind some closed-ness, but this is getting absolutely insane. Enforcing which LANGUAGES can be used on a platform?!? Insane! Edit: I've been looking at these guys: http://www.system76.com/ http://www.system76.com/ (I don't work with or have any vested interest in them, but they look cool.)

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
jxcole 17y ago
I have a lap top from them. It works well.
kqr2 17y ago
Ubuntu will run on most laptops, including mac books, so need to go with a special vendor. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook I actually went the opposite route and installed mac os on a netbook. http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-i...
Zak 17y ago
Boycotting the Mac platform (which is pretty much free of any such absurdity) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That's where Apple is doing things right. You should of course, shun iPhone OS devices if you feel this way. The system76 laptops are probably generic machines from Clevo, Sager or some such with a custom badge. Alienware used to do the same thing.
- markkoberlein 17y ago
  I wonder if Leo Laporte is going to be right about how he thinks that will Apple eventually stop making macs so that they can focus on more closed or controlled platforms like the iPod, iPhone, and now the iPad. They seem to be pretty good at making money with the closed systems. Maybe the next iBook will just be a foldable iPad with the same closed OS.
  - Raphael 17y ago
    I predict the differences will shrink and disappear. The desktops and laptops will get touch input and iPhone apps, and the closed platforms will round out in specs and features.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - jsz0 17y ago
    Maybe someday but for now Mac sales are going up -- not down. I can't imagine they'd walk away from that market. I could see the two platforms merging in certain ways. For instance if you added a multi-touch screen to the current MacBook, retaining the keyboard/touchpad, you'd have an interesting platform. You'd have desktop multi-touch apps very similar to iPad apps but you'd also be able to use traditional OSX apps. There could be some system wide multi-touch features along the lines of what they're doing with the multi-touch trackpads already to enhance these applications.
- kqr2 17y ago
  Yes, but it's the content creators that are developing the apps and making the iPad/iPhone a more valuable platform. Boycotting Apple's content creation tools and consequently not developing for the iPad/iPhone is one way to send a message.
  - kgroll 17y ago
    I've been wondering about this a bit lately. I've so far chosen not to support the iPhone OS for the reason you mention, instead favoring Android. However, I'm ultimately interested in serving my application to the largest number of people, and it seems clear to me that the App Store is the best way to achieve that today. So, do you cave in and develop an iPhone version? Or, do you stand by your morals, and, in turn, limit your audience?
mjgoins 17y ago
I have a Starling Netbook from system76. Nothing to write home about, but I've had few, if any real problems with it. It's a little flimsy, physically. And I am a proud free software zealot, so I moved it to debian.
- parula 17y ago
  That's strange, because I also have a System76 Starling and it seems very sturdy to me. I even dropped it once and it was none the worse for wear. It's been a very hardy and well-functioning machine for me.
- api 17y ago
  Hmm... if it's flimsy I probably wouldn't like it. One thing I don't like about Apple hardware is how you have to treat it like a family heirloom or it turns into a scratched up mess. Anything less hardy than that would be unusable. Toughbooks are also promising, but they're light on the specs... could someone please make a durable and well-specced laptop?
  - grinich 17y ago
    IBM?
    - maigret 17y ago
      IBM laptops aren't anymore - bought by Lenovo a few years ago.
  - scdlbx 17y ago
    I wasn't particularly gentle with my MacBook Pro and it never got scratched or damaged.
  - more_original 17y ago
    I moved to a Thinkpad (from a Powerbook) two years ago and couldn't be happier. Ubuntu just works and the hardware feels more solid that the Powerbook did.
papachito 17y ago
> I am not a free software "zealot" and don't mind some closed-ness Maybe we were not that zealot after all when we free software "zealot" said that proprietary software allow their owners to treat their users badly and that eventually, this happens to every proprietary software. Just saying. It amazes me how surprised users of proprietary software are every time they get screwed by their masters even though this has been happening for the last 30 years.
- bad_user 17y ago
  There are products and there are platforms. Products are OK to be proprietary as long as the value provided is top-notch. Sorry, but I don't see profesional designers using Gimp over Photoshop. Relying on a platform for your existence is a different story. But as a business you need alliances with other businesses, and not just in software. And everybody can pull the plug on you, that's why reputation matters and in many cases it's all you need. About free software, programmers need to eat too. Myself I use open-source everywhere, but for the last 7 years I've been doing consultancy work (turn-key apps that are never released in any form or web services that put a lock on your data ... the worst kind of closed systems). And until you'll teach me a business model that would empower me to work on "free software" while providing for my family, then I'll keep doing it. Until then it's only fair I get paid for my work, that's why I consider the free software philosophy as extremist bullshit.
  - minalecs 17y ago
    lets see theres training, and consulting, theres offer the free version, and charge for a more robust paid version, theres pay for customization and don't forget ads. There are many ways to have a business model around "free software". Red Hat, Canonical, and Google are just some of the companies that have found valid business models around "free software".
    - bad_user 17y ago
      > Red Hat, Canonical, and Google are just some of the companies that have found valid business models around "free software". That's a fallacy. The majority of open-source sponsors are selling closed systems or services to sponsor their "free software" involvement. Google doesn't have a business model around "free software". Neither does IBM or Sun. I'm also not Mozilla and my apps would probably never get in front of 40% of all Internet users. Even if I'm that lucky, it's probably not going to be a desktop app that's used to search for stuff. To get paid for customizations, your software also has to be really popular for businesses (consumers don't pay for that, they either endure it or search for something better). Did I mentioned that I don't live in Silicon Valley nor in Cambridge, but in an Eastern European country? So training is off. I already mentioned consulting, but then I would be a hypocrite if I promoted the free software ideology while working on the worst kind of closed software, wouldn't I? Anything else?
jfoutz 17y ago
It's almost like refusing to accept patches that are written in anything but vanilla C. It's almost like they are claiming if you can't at least code in C you probably aren't smart enough to submit patches anyway.
blub 17y ago
You do realize that your decision is purely based on feeling and irrational? NEVER make decisions when you are emotional unless it's a life and death matter and you must act immediately.
m234 17y ago
Well, you're on the best way of becoming a "free software zealot". See, free software zealots by and large are what they are because they invested a ton of time and effort in some platform only to have that destroyed by a stupid or greedy management decision.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

flatline 17y ago

Yeah, I really thought all the hysteria about how Apple will crush small children's hopes and dreams by distributing a closed platform that does not allow tinkering was off base until now. This has much more the flavor of intent to put a stranglehold on the device above and beyond handicapping their competitors.

axod 17y ago

Just make a webapp :/ all the freedom you need.

icey 17y ago
How well does that work for gaming? I like playing around with Unity3D; I have a hard time thinking that HTML5 is going to give the same experience.
- jasonlotito 17y ago
  Actually... http://learningwebgl.com/blog/ http://learningwebgl.com/blog/ =)
abstractbill 17y ago
Freedom to have no access to the camera or microphone, for example?
- axod 17y ago
  It'll get there... You can already have access to the multi-touch stuff via javascript. idk, I've never thought the appstore was anything but a stop gap personally, and developing for it a crazy risk.
  - wvenable 17y ago
    It won't get there before the iPhone is obsolete. You really think that web apps are ever going to get access the microphone or the camera? Also, a stop gap? I think there's an app for that.
    - axod 17y ago
      >> "You really think that web apps are ever going to get access the microphone or the camera?" Definitely, if other phones or devices have such capabilities, and a killer webapp comes out that uses them. If I was Apple I'd just shut the App store down to get rid of all the ungrateful developers. Sorry, but it's their show. They get to decide if you can play, and what the rules are. If you don't like it, don't play with them.

midnightmonster 17y ago

With much deliberation, I had got to where I could accept the ipad--window on the future of computing--being a walled (and barbed-wired, and guarded) garden. I was planning to get a 3G iPad if I have any money left after taxes, and a WiFi one for my wife soon. But this... I think this is farther than I'm willing to go. And even if they were to back down on this requirement (as they did on the original NDA)... I'm rambling, but I feel hurt by this.