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I ran 80-90 miles per week while in college and continued running 20-30 per week for a couple of years after until my knee stopped cooperating (I'm really looki

I ran 80-90 miles per week while in college and continued running 20-30 per week for a couple of years after until my knee stopped cooperating (I'm really looking forward to knee surgery in October). I have experienced some of the described symptoms (irregular heartbeat and etc), but wouldn't have done much differently. Honestly, this article basically boils down to 'do what your body can handle'. People are different. Bodies are different. Some people can handle 120 miles per week. Some people struggle to run one. Running is obviously good for your health, just don't over do it. And stretch and foam roll, that's as important as anything.

mgarfias 10y ago
Running was clearly bad for my health: at 17 I f’d up both of mine. “Oh its just shin splints, run through it.” Yeah, until I couldn’t run through the pain any more. Quit running track, bloated up like Pacheco’s pig. Found out later that I wore grooves through the cartiledge and into my bones. Also, discovered that if I ran on my toes instead of heel strikes I can run now without pain. Its juts ingrained to hate it now.
- Taek 10y ago
  Seems like you discovered it already, but shin splints, knee problems, back problems, etc. are usually based in either bad shoes or bad form. There are also strengthening exercises you can do for each to make you less susceptible to them. Often times the body's limitations are caused by problems that can be fixed or worked around, allowing you to push yourself farther and harder without hurting your health.
  - nicobn 10y ago
    Genuinely curious here. Can you point me to some of these strengthening exercises ?
    - mpol 10y ago
      Not a direct answer to your question, but I see many people running past my house and balkony, since there is a nice walkway next to my house. I see them do it in many different ways, some of which are good, some of which are really bad. Many people seem to bounce up and down on every step, putting shocks of weight on their knees at every step. That will hurt you in the long term, probably even in the short term. You should have a certain flow in running, where your upper body just remains at the same height, and your legs are the only moving parts. Like your upper body is just sliding forward, that is the effect you want. And you might think you do it right, but chances are you don't. I do not run myself, but I can imagine there are running trainers who specialize in ergonomics and health. You might want to have someone like that take a look at how you are running.
    - victorhooi 10y ago
      I second what some others have said - many injuries in running are caused by bad form. The guys who do my bike fitting (basically, ensuring your bike is properly adjusted so as not to cause undue stress on your body) also do running coaching - I recently did two sessions with them which I found useful. (If you're in Sydney, it's The Body Mechanic in Milson's Point) One of the big takeaways for me was increasing my cadence - where previously I was around 150-170 bpm, I now aim for around 180 bpm. The higher cadence seems to have helped me put less stress on my legs with each step. Also, I'm working on having good posture, and ensuring my feed land under my torso (as opposed to in front or behind me). And what mpol said about keeping your torso/head stable is correct - you do not want your head bobbing up/down as you run. But yeah - if you are keen on running, definitely go see a professional, who can give you good advice based on your own individual running style.
    - tallanvor 10y ago
      I had some knee problems for a time, which a physical therapist diagnosed as a muscle imbalance - basically one leg was stronger than the other, and it caused me to twist my legs a bit while running. The main exercises to correct this were one legged squats, leg extensions (again, one leg at a time), and several balance exercises to help me position my hips properly while running. Obviously, though, if there's one thing we've learned, it's that there's a lot of variety in our bodies, so if you're having pain, see a doctor first and if they think it's necessary you can get a referral to a physical therapist or another doctor that specializes in that area.
  - geezerjay 10y ago
    > Seems like you discovered it already, but shin splints, knee problems, back problems, etc. are usually based in either bad shoes or bad form. The way you're moving the goal post surely counts as exercise as well. Running does improve health in some aspects, but it also causes significant health problems as well. Running isn't the only form of exercise.
    - qqw1qqw1 10y ago
      Sounds like this person had an injury, didn't treat it, and it got worse. It seems like a pretty huge, unsubstantiated leap to claim that running "causes significant health problems".
- lunula 10y ago
  I was lucky and avoided running myself into that kind of issue in high school. But I did get stuck with recurrent problems with my lower legs, and I did run through pain. I was heel striking, which was encouraged by equipment (thick padded shoes) and by coaching. I took years off, learned to row, and came back literally running barefoot and on my toes. Tired of pulling glass out of my feet, I started using racing flats and then vibrams when training. It took five years to get to where I could do the same mileage as before. Now my knees don't hurt any more than any other part of my body after running. I think the soft landings of toe strike running make all the difference. Those early years definitely did damage. In my case I feel I have overcome it. I hope you will too. Running is a beautiful thing and a shame to lose.
  - mgarfias 10y ago
    Coaching was definitely a factor. Was taught that heel strikes were more efficient. Also: instead of running long distance, I should have been sprinting.
  - filoeleven 10y ago
    I popped in specifically to search for "barefoot" to see if anyone was using barefoot running techniques. When I first heard about the book "Born to Run", and how the Tarahumara use their legs/feet as the natural shock absorbers that they may have evolved to be, I said, "This is the style for me. I'm not a fan of running, but I do love efficiency, and this sounds like a fun way to give it a shot." It didn't really pan out--I have some Vibrams that get used once or twice a year--but I do like to sprint on rocky trails a lot, and going downhill is a lot more fun using something like BRT. Interestingly, the only other comment besides yours mentioning "barefoot" is one from neilsharma, who writes that he had lots of problems from running that he chose to ante up on the footgear, which ended up further weakening his feet. I don't know if there have been studies done that show how our current shoe designs are bad for our feet--only that Vibram got in trouble for claiming that their shoes are better for you without anything backing them up--but it seems like something that ought to be looked at.
- kingosticks 10y ago
  Is running through shin splits, or any kind of recurring consistent pain, a good idea? Did someone really give you that advice? I've always been advised to reduce the milage right down (or even stop) and focus on strength exercises before slowly building the milage back up.
- lloeki 10y ago
  > if I ran on my toes instead of heel strikes I can run now without pain I can't for the life of me understand how people bear to run landing on heels. The whole ankle system is "designed" to recover as much energy as possible by loading up the Achilles tendon while at the same time saving both the knee and hip joints.
  - mgarfias 10y ago
    Running shoes with big padded cushy heels. Since I’ve switched to shoes with minimal padding and a level foot bed my knee pain has decreased (oh and my feet are stronger too).
- falcolas 10y ago
  FWIW, swimming was no better; "[swim] through it" is pretty common from any bad coach. As a result, I have two bum knees (the breastroke kick puts so much lateral force on the knees that they separate), a pair of dodgy hips (again, I blame breaststroke), and shoulders which literally dislocate at will (I pin it on butterfly and bad form). Too much focus on the major muscle groups, and none on the muscles which keep all of those joints where they should be.
greenspot 10y ago
You write... > Some people can handle 120 miles per week after you... > ran 80-90 miles per week [...] I'm really looking forward to knee surgery in October) Apologies for being a bit harsh but the cause-effect-relationship is crystal clear. Extensive running puts a tremendous strain on our knees. You don't need to be a doctor, scientist or professional runner to know this. And just 20-30 miles/week over a long period is already way too much for the majority. Most will write, 'nah that works great for me, I run that amount for many years and my knees are in perfect shape'. Just wait till you're older and then it's pay back time.
- cup 10y ago
  Actually there is some evidence that running is good for your knees. Either way I think the health benefits of running clearly outweight any damage they do to your knees.
- pg314 10y ago
  It is not clear that running is bad for the knees. Recent studies ([1], [2]) find no evidence of any adverse effects, rather the contrary (lower incidence of knee osteoarthritis in the running group). One possible explanation is that the runners were less likely to put on weight over the years, leading to lower day-to-day stresses on the knees. [1] Eliza Chakravarty et al. "Long distance running and knee osteoarthritis: A prospective study," American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 2008, 35(2), 133-138 [2] David Felson et al., "Effects of recreational physical activities on the development of knee osteoarthritis in older adults of different weights: The Framingham Study," Arthritis & Rheumatism, 2007, 57(1), 6-12
  - greenspot 10y ago
    > It is not clear that running is bad for the knees I wrote 'extensive running'
    - pg314 10y ago
      You didn't define 'extensive'. Is it 20-30 miles/week over a long period, which you claim is already way too much for the majority? If I read study [1] correctly the runners were running 3.5 hours a week at the beginning of the study, which would be around 20 miles/week. That same group had a lower incidence of osteoarthritis than the control group. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

mgarfias 10y ago

Running was clearly bad for my health: at 17 I f’d up both of mine. “Oh its just shin splints, run through it.” Yeah, until I couldn’t run through the pain any more. Quit running track, bloated up like Pacheco’s pig. Found out later that I wore grooves through the cartiledge and into my bones. Also, discovered that if I ran on my toes instead of heel strikes I can run now without pain. Its juts ingrained to hate it now.

Taek 10y ago
Seems like you discovered it already, but shin splints, knee problems, back problems, etc. are usually based in either bad shoes or bad form. There are also strengthening exercises you can do for each to make you less susceptible to them. Often times the body's limitations are caused by problems that can be fixed or worked around, allowing you to push yourself farther and harder without hurting your health.
- nicobn 10y ago
  Genuinely curious here. Can you point me to some of these strengthening exercises ?
  - mpol 10y ago
    Not a direct answer to your question, but I see many people running past my house and balkony, since there is a nice walkway next to my house. I see them do it in many different ways, some of which are good, some of which are really bad. Many people seem to bounce up and down on every step, putting shocks of weight on their knees at every step. That will hurt you in the long term, probably even in the short term. You should have a certain flow in running, where your upper body just remains at the same height, and your legs are the only moving parts. Like your upper body is just sliding forward, that is the effect you want. And you might think you do it right, but chances are you don't. I do not run myself, but I can imagine there are running trainers who specialize in ergonomics and health. You might want to have someone like that take a look at how you are running.
  - victorhooi 10y ago
    I second what some others have said - many injuries in running are caused by bad form. The guys who do my bike fitting (basically, ensuring your bike is properly adjusted so as not to cause undue stress on your body) also do running coaching - I recently did two sessions with them which I found useful. (If you're in Sydney, it's The Body Mechanic in Milson's Point) One of the big takeaways for me was increasing my cadence - where previously I was around 150-170 bpm, I now aim for around 180 bpm. The higher cadence seems to have helped me put less stress on my legs with each step. Also, I'm working on having good posture, and ensuring my feed land under my torso (as opposed to in front or behind me). And what mpol said about keeping your torso/head stable is correct - you do not want your head bobbing up/down as you run. But yeah - if you are keen on running, definitely go see a professional, who can give you good advice based on your own individual running style.
  - tallanvor 10y ago
    I had some knee problems for a time, which a physical therapist diagnosed as a muscle imbalance - basically one leg was stronger than the other, and it caused me to twist my legs a bit while running. The main exercises to correct this were one legged squats, leg extensions (again, one leg at a time), and several balance exercises to help me position my hips properly while running. Obviously, though, if there's one thing we've learned, it's that there's a lot of variety in our bodies, so if you're having pain, see a doctor first and if they think it's necessary you can get a referral to a physical therapist or another doctor that specializes in that area.
- geezerjay 10y ago
  > Seems like you discovered it already, but shin splints, knee problems, back problems, etc. are usually based in either bad shoes or bad form. The way you're moving the goal post surely counts as exercise as well. Running does improve health in some aspects, but it also causes significant health problems as well. Running isn't the only form of exercise.
  - qqw1qqw1 10y ago
    Sounds like this person had an injury, didn't treat it, and it got worse. It seems like a pretty huge, unsubstantiated leap to claim that running "causes significant health problems".
lunula 10y ago
I was lucky and avoided running myself into that kind of issue in high school. But I did get stuck with recurrent problems with my lower legs, and I did run through pain. I was heel striking, which was encouraged by equipment (thick padded shoes) and by coaching. I took years off, learned to row, and came back literally running barefoot and on my toes. Tired of pulling glass out of my feet, I started using racing flats and then vibrams when training. It took five years to get to where I could do the same mileage as before. Now my knees don't hurt any more than any other part of my body after running. I think the soft landings of toe strike running make all the difference. Those early years definitely did damage. In my case I feel I have overcome it. I hope you will too. Running is a beautiful thing and a shame to lose.
- mgarfias 10y ago
  Coaching was definitely a factor. Was taught that heel strikes were more efficient. Also: instead of running long distance, I should have been sprinting.
- filoeleven 10y ago
  I popped in specifically to search for "barefoot" to see if anyone was using barefoot running techniques. When I first heard about the book "Born to Run", and how the Tarahumara use their legs/feet as the natural shock absorbers that they may have evolved to be, I said, "This is the style for me. I'm not a fan of running, but I do love efficiency, and this sounds like a fun way to give it a shot." It didn't really pan out--I have some Vibrams that get used once or twice a year--but I do like to sprint on rocky trails a lot, and going downhill is a lot more fun using something like BRT. Interestingly, the only other comment besides yours mentioning "barefoot" is one from neilsharma, who writes that he had lots of problems from running that he chose to ante up on the footgear, which ended up further weakening his feet. I don't know if there have been studies done that show how our current shoe designs are bad for our feet--only that Vibram got in trouble for claiming that their shoes are better for you without anything backing them up--but it seems like something that ought to be looked at.
kingosticks 10y ago
Is running through shin splits, or any kind of recurring consistent pain, a good idea? Did someone really give you that advice? I've always been advised to reduce the milage right down (or even stop) and focus on strength exercises before slowly building the milage back up.
lloeki 10y ago
> if I ran on my toes instead of heel strikes I can run now without pain I can't for the life of me understand how people bear to run landing on heels. The whole ankle system is "designed" to recover as much energy as possible by loading up the Achilles tendon while at the same time saving both the knee and hip joints.
- mgarfias 10y ago
  Running shoes with big padded cushy heels. Since I’ve switched to shoes with minimal padding and a level foot bed my knee pain has decreased (oh and my feet are stronger too).
falcolas 10y ago
FWIW, swimming was no better; "[swim] through it" is pretty common from any bad coach. As a result, I have two bum knees (the breastroke kick puts so much lateral force on the knees that they separate), a pair of dodgy hips (again, I blame breaststroke), and shoulders which literally dislocate at will (I pin it on butterfly and bad form). Too much focus on the major muscle groups, and none on the muscles which keep all of those joints where they should be.

greenspot 10y ago

You write... > Some people can handle 120 miles per week after you... > ran 80-90 miles per week [...] I'm really looking forward to knee surgery in October) Apologies for being a bit harsh but the cause-effect-relationship is crystal clear. Extensive running puts a tremendous strain on our knees. You don't need to be a doctor, scientist or professional runner to know this. And just 20-30 miles/week over a long period is already way too much for the majority. Most will write, 'nah that works great for me, I run that amount for many years and my knees are in perfect shape'. Just wait till you're older and then it's pay back time.

cup 10y ago
Actually there is some evidence that running is good for your knees. Either way I think the health benefits of running clearly outweight any damage they do to your knees.
pg314 10y ago
It is not clear that running is bad for the knees. Recent studies ([1], [2]) find no evidence of any adverse effects, rather the contrary (lower incidence of knee osteoarthritis in the running group). One possible explanation is that the runners were less likely to put on weight over the years, leading to lower day-to-day stresses on the knees. [1] Eliza Chakravarty et al. "Long distance running and knee osteoarthritis: A prospective study," American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 2008, 35(2), 133-138 [2] David Felson et al., "Effects of recreational physical activities on the development of knee osteoarthritis in older adults of different weights: The Framingham Study," Arthritis & Rheumatism, 2007, 57(1), 6-12
- greenspot 10y ago
  > It is not clear that running is bad for the knees I wrote 'extensive running'
  - pg314 10y ago
    You didn't define 'extensive'. Is it 20-30 miles/week over a long period, which you claim is already way too much for the majority? If I read study [1] correctly the runners were running 3.5 hours a week at the beginning of the study, which would be around 20 miles/week. That same group had a lower incidence of osteoarthritis than the control group. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?