4 ms·

That's always made me sad. My ex was American - when we moved to Ireland, I made a habit of routinely (once a week or so) asking random policemen for direction

by soneil 10y ago

That's always made me sad. My ex was American - when we moved to Ireland, I made a habit of routinely (once a week or so) asking random policemen for directions to places, just to teach her that they're entirely approachable here. The closest thing we had to a bad experience, was one chap who took it upon himself to walk with us until we could see our destination, just to make sure we found it. I'd only wanted to waste a moment of their time, not a few minutes.

cmdrfred 10y ago
In some rural communities this is how the police behave in the US. I've seen police changing tires for people near my house countless times for example.
- soneil 10y ago
  I lived in rural Michigan for a few years. I knew every city cop by first name (very small city. like "how on earth to do you call that a city" small), and it'd generally fit that description. But the sheriff, state police and tribal police .. wide berth. Obviously anecdotal so I can't disagree with you. Just that my experience of rural police was a mixed bag. Black uniform good. Blue uniform bad. Brown uniform really bad.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    I'm from Pennsylvania, I think it was the Quakers[0] who framed it originally like this but police here do more community policing as opposed to broken windows policing. In my experience, most police mainly use the law as a tool to keep the peace and don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Sure there must be some bad ones out there, but it goes to show you that a different mindset can have a measurable effect on the outcome. [0]https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/announcements/friends-protest-even-handed-law-enforcement https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/an... (looks like they are still at it 400 years later)
- driverdan 10y ago
  In some rural communities police are on a huge power trip because they're some of the most powerful people in the small town. Some are good, some are bad, just like everywhere else.
- morgante 10y ago
  It's still good advice in general. I grew up in a small rural community. I'm sure the cops here occasionally do things like changing tires for people. They're also bullies who like to go on power trips. If they feel disrespected at all, they will beat you senseless (and have). Police across the US are almost universally bullies on power trips. The job of police offer is every bully's biggest dream: they can get paid to go around and abuse people while demanding respect from everyone.
berntb 10y ago
Weird, it seems counterproductive. Why doesn't the US police in bigger cities try to integrate with the citizens? Is the violence risk so big or are there legal reasons?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  The history of policing in the US is a bad one, rife with torture and abuses that are heard about for decades until various notorious cases force the public to demand change. You also have generations of people who were legally allowed to be abused by police because of their race, or economic status. That shapes the character of a country's police, and the people's response to them.
- rayiner 10y ago
  US cities are an order of magnitude more violent than cities in other countries, and there is major racial conflict (until fairly recently, police forces in majority black cities like DC were mostly white).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 10y ago
  They should. The phenomenon of heavily-armed police spending most of their working hours either in a squad car or actively handling a disturbance, rather than walking a beat, is a modern one. It's something Peter Moskos laments in Cop In The Hood, which is a pretty decent book on the practices of modern police forces written by a sociologist who served for a year as an experiment. Beat policing is not one of the most dangerous occupations in the US, and a lot of the danger police face is self-generated: readiness to escalate conflict alters the calculus of offenders as well. The big issue we have with current police forces is cultural, and it probably can't be fixed by fiat. We'll have to do it at the organization level, through attrition. It's simple. For simplicity of discussion, rename all current patrol officers "assault officers"; they're the heavily armed ones that spend their day in cars or in confrontation. Now: stop hiring new assault officers. Instead, for every assault officer headcount you'd hire, bring in 1.5-3 new "compliance officers" who can walk beats, help people, de-escalate simple criminal incidents, and very quickly summon assault officers. (I also think that most police officers should simply be disarmed. They should have ready access to long guns, perhaps in the trunk of their squad car, but they shouldn't be 5 seconds from killing someone else at all times during their work day.)
dvcrn 10y ago
I was under the impression it is everywhere like this. The police would be the first I would approach when having a question.
- soneil 10y ago
  They should be, and usually are. But there's two problems. One, is that if even 1% aren't, those 1% can cause untold damage to your life. We're usually pretty bad at judging risk, so many people won't accept "a very low chance of a very big problem" for the same reason many people will accept "a very low chance of a very big reward" and play the lottery. The second is more disconcerting to me; all too frequently I see people assume that when someone had a bad interaction with the police, they must have done 'something wrong' to be interacting with them in the first place. Either we believe police are eminently approachable, or we believe that someone interacting with the police "must have done something to deserve it". We can't have it both ways.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I'm American and moved to Norway - and it has taken some time for me to get used to the idea as well. The oddest experience for me: Border control. I took a trip to Amsterdam, and upon arriving back in town my things (and the person sitting next to me) were searched. I understand. But... the dude was nice. Polite. Didn't have an angry look on his face. Sure, he asked about drugs more than once (I was in amsterdam, so understandable). I've not lost my mistrust for police, but it is slowly fading, for sure.

by soneil 10y ago

cmdrfred 10y ago

In some rural communities this is how the police behave in the US. I've seen police changing tires for people near my house countless times for example.

soneil 10y ago
I lived in rural Michigan for a few years. I knew every city cop by first name (very small city. like "how on earth to do you call that a city" small), and it'd generally fit that description. But the sheriff, state police and tribal police .. wide berth. Obviously anecdotal so I can't disagree with you. Just that my experience of rural police was a mixed bag. Black uniform good. Blue uniform bad. Brown uniform really bad.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  I'm from Pennsylvania, I think it was the Quakers[0] who framed it originally like this but police here do more community policing as opposed to broken windows policing. In my experience, most police mainly use the law as a tool to keep the peace and don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Sure there must be some bad ones out there, but it goes to show you that a different mindset can have a measurable effect on the outcome. [0]https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/announcements/friends-protest-even-handed-law-enforcement https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/an... (looks like they are still at it 400 years later)
driverdan 10y ago
In some rural communities police are on a huge power trip because they're some of the most powerful people in the small town. Some are good, some are bad, just like everywhere else.
morgante 10y ago
It's still good advice in general. I grew up in a small rural community. I'm sure the cops here occasionally do things like changing tires for people. They're also bullies who like to go on power trips. If they feel disrespected at all, they will beat you senseless (and have). Police across the US are almost universally bullies on power trips. The job of police offer is every bully's biggest dream: they can get paid to go around and abuse people while demanding respect from everyone.

berntb 10y ago

Weird, it seems counterproductive. Why doesn't the US police in bigger cities try to integrate with the citizens? Is the violence risk so big or are there legal reasons?

M_Grey 10y ago
The history of policing in the US is a bad one, rife with torture and abuses that are heard about for decades until various notorious cases force the public to demand change. You also have generations of people who were legally allowed to be abused by police because of their race, or economic status. That shapes the character of a country's police, and the people's response to them.
rayiner 10y ago
US cities are an order of magnitude more violent than cities in other countries, and there is major racial conflict (until fairly recently, police forces in majority black cities like DC were mostly white).
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 10y ago
They should. The phenomenon of heavily-armed police spending most of their working hours either in a squad car or actively handling a disturbance, rather than walking a beat, is a modern one. It's something Peter Moskos laments in Cop In The Hood, which is a pretty decent book on the practices of modern police forces written by a sociologist who served for a year as an experiment. Beat policing is not one of the most dangerous occupations in the US, and a lot of the danger police face is self-generated: readiness to escalate conflict alters the calculus of offenders as well. The big issue we have with current police forces is cultural, and it probably can't be fixed by fiat. We'll have to do it at the organization level, through attrition. It's simple. For simplicity of discussion, rename all current patrol officers "assault officers"; they're the heavily armed ones that spend their day in cars or in confrontation. Now: stop hiring new assault officers. Instead, for every assault officer headcount you'd hire, bring in 1.5-3 new "compliance officers" who can walk beats, help people, de-escalate simple criminal incidents, and very quickly summon assault officers. (I also think that most police officers should simply be disarmed. They should have ready access to long guns, perhaps in the trunk of their squad car, but they shouldn't be 5 seconds from killing someone else at all times during their work day.)

dvcrn 10y ago

I was under the impression it is everywhere like this. The police would be the first I would approach when having a question.

soneil 10y ago
They should be, and usually are. But there's two problems. One, is that if even 1% aren't, those 1% can cause untold damage to your life. We're usually pretty bad at judging risk, so many people won't accept "a very low chance of a very big problem" for the same reason many people will accept "a very low chance of a very big reward" and play the lottery. The second is more disconcerting to me; all too frequently I see people assume that when someone had a bad interaction with the police, they must have done 'something wrong' to be interacting with them in the first place. Either we believe police are eminently approachable, or we believe that someone interacting with the police "must have done something to deserve it". We can't have it both ways.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

I'm American and moved to Norway - and it has taken some time for me to get used to the idea as well. The oddest experience for me: Border control. I took a trip to Amsterdam, and upon arriving back in town my things (and the person sitting next to me) were searched. I understand. But... the dude was nice. Polite. Didn't have an angry look on his face. Sure, he asked about drugs more than once (I was in amsterdam, so understandable). I've not lost my mistrust for police, but it is slowly fading, for sure.