6 ms·

This is why I teach my children never to speak to police officers, to avoid them as much as possible, and to leave the area should they become visibly present.

by dleslie 10y ago

This is why I teach my children never to speak to police officers, to avoid them as much as possible, and to leave the area should they become visibly present. And I live in Canada; when I travel to the USA on business I stay in the hotel or the venue and restrict my traveling as much as possible. I don't fear the citizens, I fear the police.

pmalynin 10y ago
Thats interesting, I'm not sure which part of Canada you are from, but here in Edmonton the police are very friendly and as far as I know that is the majority opinion. Personally, and even amongst my friends (which ranges from Tim Horton's Employees to CS Professors) the opinion is the same. In general, especially in parts of downtown, I feel safer with the police around. I don't, however, have the same feeling in the States.
- dleslie 10y ago
  AFAICT it really depends on which Canadian city you're in, the VPD and TPS are not the RCMP after all, and whether or not you appear to be native, black, or a prostitute. Still, you don't want to catch the attention of an officer; they are an agent of state force capable of incredible violence. But I agree that, in general, Canadian police forces are nowhere near as bad as major metropolitan forces in the USA.
- fnbr 10y ago
  Not trying to nit pick here, as my experiences with Edmonton police have been similar, but my fiancee, who's black, has had different experiences with Edmonton police. Nothing as negative as this, but experiences that left her disheartened (police saying: well what should do you expect us to do? when she was jumped by a number of gang members at WEM). I also suspect that if you were to speak to Aboriginal Edmontonians, they'd have different opinions. Consider the way that the RCMP has treated indigenous individuals in the past.
  - refurb 10y ago
    I remember a long time ago, I think it was in Saskatchewan, where the RCMP would pick up drunk indians, drive them way out of the city and drop them off. In the middle of winter. Keep in mind this is Saskatchewan where it's typically -30C at night in the winter. Several of them froze to death.
    - dalke 10y ago
      http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/aboriginals/starlighttours.html http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/aboriginals/starlighttour... as well as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlight_tours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlight_tours and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths .
soneil 10y ago
That's always made me sad. My ex was American - when we moved to Ireland, I made a habit of routinely (once a week or so) asking random policemen for directions to places, just to teach her that they're entirely approachable here. The closest thing we had to a bad experience, was one chap who took it upon himself to walk with us until we could see our destination, just to make sure we found it. I'd only wanted to waste a moment of their time, not a few minutes.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  In some rural communities this is how the police behave in the US. I've seen police changing tires for people near my house countless times for example.
  - soneil 10y ago
    I lived in rural Michigan for a few years. I knew every city cop by first name (very small city. like "how on earth to do you call that a city" small), and it'd generally fit that description. But the sheriff, state police and tribal police .. wide berth. Obviously anecdotal so I can't disagree with you. Just that my experience of rural police was a mixed bag. Black uniform good. Blue uniform bad. Brown uniform really bad.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      I'm from Pennsylvania, I think it was the Quakers[0] who framed it originally like this but police here do more community policing as opposed to broken windows policing. In my experience, most police mainly use the law as a tool to keep the peace and don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Sure there must be some bad ones out there, but it goes to show you that a different mindset can have a measurable effect on the outcome. [0]https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/announcements/friends-protest-even-handed-law-enforcement https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/an... (looks like they are still at it 400 years later)
  - driverdan 10y ago
gozur88 10y ago
Frankly, you've allowed yourself to fall prey to US election year propaganda. If you look at the numbers you're very safe travelling in the US, and to the extent you're in danger it's from criminals and not police.
- lingben 10y ago
  The problem as I see it is that while 99% of police officers are not only law abiding and do their job with integrity, the 1% out there can and do destroy innocent lives. It is like walking into a mine field. You could very well walk out unscathed but one 'routine' brush with the wrong police officer and your life may never recover. So are you willing to take such a small but catastrophic chance? An intelligent person would do all they can to minimize the risk.
  - gozur88 10y ago
    Yes, but the point is the risk is so small you're off into lightning strike territory. Do you worry about brain eating amoebas when you swim? Do you refuse to fly because the plane might crash?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - unclenoriega 10y ago
      I do take cover during storms.
  - dleslie 10y ago
    And the risk is much higher if you happen to not be white.
- dleslie 10y ago
  My position is in-line with the advice of lawyers[0][1][2][...] and police[3]. And as a foreigner I have virtually no rights while on American soil. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezKO4TnaHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezKO4TnaHs 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe-NC30obg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe-NC30obg 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_l3sa-iJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_l3sa-iJQ
moheeb 10y ago
That sounds ridiculous to me. Do you use a paper towel so that you don't have to touch the door handle on your way out of the bathroom, too?
- dleslie 10y ago
  Yes, I do. I've seen too many men piss, zip and walk out without washing.
MichaelGG 10y ago
Are you exaggerating or are you seriously concerned that the police will harm you? No matter what your race/gender/color/face/etc., citizens are far more dangerous. There's simply tons of them. Even in the US, this whole police-violence thing is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's terrible, police need to be checked more, etc. But no, it's not a "massacre" or remotely the top reason someone will be killed.
- dleslie 10y ago
  If I am assaulted and mugged I get some bruises and lose my wallet. Those are relatively minor outcomes compared to the enormous court expenses and years or a lifetime of damage that an officer can do. Hell, as per the article, the $300 to get my car out of impound would be a lot more than the pocket change I stand to lose in a mugging. Most well-fed sharks won't attack a human, but I'm not about to dive into the tank.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    Bruises and a lost wallet are also minor compared to a transit accident. Yet I'm guessing you get around? They're less than the damage from choking to death, but I'm guessing you eat more than liquid food? I don't think you're actually calculating the risk here.
    - dleslie 10y ago
      Actually, I refuse to commute by car because of the risk of accident and the health impact of the stress of driving and the sedentary lifestyle.
M_Grey 10y ago
The best advice I ever got regarding police came from my mother years ago, who got out of defense law the moment she laid eyes on the system. "At the end of the day, a cop is just someone with a gun, and if no one else is there to contradict them, their story will be believed." Now of course we know that even with video evidence, there's little hope.

by dleslie 10y ago

pmalynin 10y ago

Thats interesting, I'm not sure which part of Canada you are from, but here in Edmonton the police are very friendly and as far as I know that is the majority opinion. Personally, and even amongst my friends (which ranges from Tim Horton's Employees to CS Professors) the opinion is the same. In general, especially in parts of downtown, I feel safer with the police around. I don't, however, have the same feeling in the States.

dleslie 10y ago
AFAICT it really depends on which Canadian city you're in, the VPD and TPS are not the RCMP after all, and whether or not you appear to be native, black, or a prostitute. Still, you don't want to catch the attention of an officer; they are an agent of state force capable of incredible violence. But I agree that, in general, Canadian police forces are nowhere near as bad as major metropolitan forces in the USA.
fnbr 10y ago
Not trying to nit pick here, as my experiences with Edmonton police have been similar, but my fiancee, who's black, has had different experiences with Edmonton police. Nothing as negative as this, but experiences that left her disheartened (police saying: well what should do you expect us to do? when she was jumped by a number of gang members at WEM). I also suspect that if you were to speak to Aboriginal Edmontonians, they'd have different opinions. Consider the way that the RCMP has treated indigenous individuals in the past.
- refurb 10y ago
  I remember a long time ago, I think it was in Saskatchewan, where the RCMP would pick up drunk indians, drive them way out of the city and drop them off. In the middle of winter. Keep in mind this is Saskatchewan where it's typically -30C at night in the winter. Several of them froze to death.
  - dalke 10y ago
    http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/aboriginals/starlighttours.html http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/aboriginals/starlighttour... as well as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlight_tours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlight_tours and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths .

soneil 10y ago

That's always made me sad. My ex was American - when we moved to Ireland, I made a habit of routinely (once a week or so) asking random policemen for directions to places, just to teach her that they're entirely approachable here. The closest thing we had to a bad experience, was one chap who took it upon himself to walk with us until we could see our destination, just to make sure we found it. I'd only wanted to waste a moment of their time, not a few minutes.

cmdrfred 10y ago
In some rural communities this is how the police behave in the US. I've seen police changing tires for people near my house countless times for example.
- soneil 10y ago
  I lived in rural Michigan for a few years. I knew every city cop by first name (very small city. like "how on earth to do you call that a city" small), and it'd generally fit that description. But the sheriff, state police and tribal police .. wide berth. Obviously anecdotal so I can't disagree with you. Just that my experience of rural police was a mixed bag. Black uniform good. Blue uniform bad. Brown uniform really bad.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    I'm from Pennsylvania, I think it was the Quakers[0] who framed it originally like this but police here do more community policing as opposed to broken windows policing. In my experience, most police mainly use the law as a tool to keep the peace and don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Sure there must be some bad ones out there, but it goes to show you that a different mindset can have a measurable effect on the outcome. [0]https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/announcements/friends-protest-even-handed-law-enforcement https://www.quakercloud.org/cloud/chicago-friends-meeting/an... (looks like they are still at it 400 years later)
- driverdan 10y ago

gozur88 10y ago

Frankly, you've allowed yourself to fall prey to US election year propaganda. If you look at the numbers you're very safe travelling in the US, and to the extent you're in danger it's from criminals and not police.

lingben 10y ago
The problem as I see it is that while 99% of police officers are not only law abiding and do their job with integrity, the 1% out there can and do destroy innocent lives. It is like walking into a mine field. You could very well walk out unscathed but one 'routine' brush with the wrong police officer and your life may never recover. So are you willing to take such a small but catastrophic chance? An intelligent person would do all they can to minimize the risk.
- gozur88 10y ago
  Yes, but the point is the risk is so small you're off into lightning strike territory. Do you worry about brain eating amoebas when you swim? Do you refuse to fly because the plane might crash?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - unclenoriega 10y ago
    I do take cover during storms.
- dleslie 10y ago
  And the risk is much higher if you happen to not be white.
dleslie 10y ago
My position is in-line with the advice of lawyers[0][1][2][...] and police[3]. And as a foreigner I have virtually no rights while on American soil. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezKO4TnaHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezKO4TnaHs 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe-NC30obg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe-NC30obg 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_l3sa-iJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_l3sa-iJQ

moheeb 10y ago

That sounds ridiculous to me. Do you use a paper towel so that you don't have to touch the door handle on your way out of the bathroom, too?

dleslie 10y ago
Yes, I do. I've seen too many men piss, zip and walk out without washing.

MichaelGG 10y ago

Are you exaggerating or are you seriously concerned that the police will harm you? No matter what your race/gender/color/face/etc., citizens are far more dangerous. There's simply tons of them. Even in the US, this whole police-violence thing is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's terrible, police need to be checked more, etc. But no, it's not a "massacre" or remotely the top reason someone will be killed.

dleslie 10y ago
If I am assaulted and mugged I get some bruises and lose my wallet. Those are relatively minor outcomes compared to the enormous court expenses and years or a lifetime of damage that an officer can do. Hell, as per the article, the $300 to get my car out of impound would be a lot more than the pocket change I stand to lose in a mugging. Most well-fed sharks won't attack a human, but I'm not about to dive into the tank.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  Bruises and a lost wallet are also minor compared to a transit accident. Yet I'm guessing you get around? They're less than the damage from choking to death, but I'm guessing you eat more than liquid food? I don't think you're actually calculating the risk here.
  - dleslie 10y ago
    Actually, I refuse to commute by car because of the risk of accident and the health impact of the stress of driving and the sedentary lifestyle.

M_Grey 10y ago

The best advice I ever got regarding police came from my mother years ago, who got out of defense law the moment she laid eyes on the system. "At the end of the day, a cop is just someone with a gun, and if no one else is there to contradict them, their story will be believed." Now of course we know that even with video evidence, there's little hope.