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You seem to think that having your data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern than in USA? That's a joke. You realise that google just made location track

by oneloop 10y ago

You seem to think that having your data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern than in USA? That's a joke. You realise that google just made location tracking mandatory for anyone using maps or app store, right? The USA is way worse in this respect. Or let me re-phrase that: we know for a FACT that the USA is very very bad in this respect, whereas Russian just has a bad reputation.

untog 10y ago
I absolutely think that data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern, yes - because while I don't doubt the governments of both countries are spying on that data, I trust the US government far more than I trust the Russian government. A useful series of tweets by @SwiftOnSecurity about why storing data in the US isn't a bad idea: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/775491205983371264?lang=en-gb https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/77549120598337126...
- oneloop 10y ago
  You trust the us gov? The same that has denied manning his/her rights, driven her to suicide and now hunger strike? The same that got sweden prosecutors to re-instate assange's rape accusations after they had been independently dismissed by the initial prosecutor, so they can extradite him to the us? Ok buddy, keep trusting the us gov. I think you've been so thoroughly brain-washed by russian-hating american media that you can't even think straight any more. I realise that this isn't really an argument, but I already presented my argument (that with the usa gov you have facts, whereas the russian gov you have suspicions) and it didn't seem to make a difference, so i don't really care to continue this conversation.
  - untog 10y ago
    Jesus Christ. No. It ought to be obvious to anyone that applying black and white judgements in these situations is idiotic. Do I think the US government is beyond reproach? No. Do I think the US government is more open and accountable than the Russian government? Yes. > (that with the usa gov you have facts, whereas the russian gov you have suspicions) Yes, because the US government is open and accountable enough that this information is public. The same cannot be said for the Russian government.
    - alexro 10y ago
      Would Snowden agree with you?
      - untog 10y ago
        That's actually a very interesting question. I don't know. And I doubt he is currently in a position to be very frank and honest about it.
        oneloop 10y ago
        There you go with your anti-russian bullshit again. Snowden talks shit about russia as well all the time. Why wouldn't he? Because putin comes and kill him, right?
- daxorid 10y ago
  One word: jurisdiction. The GU might read my emails, but they don't have the authority to execute 4am raids on my property and kill me with impunity in the name of "officer safety" as an eventual consequence of something XKeyScore flagged. At the end of the day, the people who have the guns and the authority to use them against you take a more prominent place in one's threat model than a foreign entity with no jurisdiction.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> You seem to think that having your data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern than in USA? Yes. In fact, I'd say that's the case even if your only concern is with the US government. Virtually all of the controversy over US government actions with regard to local data is about violation of expectations (some of which are codified into law) about domestic surveillance by doing things which are uncontroversial in the context of foreign surveillance, and its not like the US lacks capacity or will for foreign surveillance. That said, Russia doesn't even have the constraints (legal or mere expectations) on domestic surveillance that the US domestic actions raise concern for violating, so if your concern extends beyond US government surveillance, then that compounds the problem when hosting in Russia.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
The USA is probably bad, but hides it well. Russia makes no qualms about hiding it.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
How many reporters and dissidents are murdered in the US versus Russia? Russia is way worse in civil rights and surveillance. Doesnt excuse America for the schemes they pull but it's definitely safer here unless you're in the hood.
- zzzcpan 10y ago
  Well, it's kind of safe for their citizens too, if they don't get involved in the things that get them killed, as those are not random things. But civil rights aside, online surveillance there is not yet at the level of reading everyone's emails and while they really want to do that they have a hard time implementing something like this for various reasons. It's definitely safer to use those online services, than the ones in your own country or allies.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    How do you know that? Russia doesnt publish what Russian intelligence is doing. They also don't have a Snowden who leaked almost all their secrets. That we did is only reason you can make thag comparison. I'd love to see an equivalent dunp for Russia to do the comparison. ;)
    - zzzcpan 10y ago
      It's not like that in Russia, they don't benefit from hiding surveillance, they do it openly. They had SORM for some time now, but only recently, like a month ago, created a law attempting to force local companies to implement backdoors and provide access to and store everything they have on users, etc.

by oneloop 10y ago

untog 10y ago

I absolutely think that data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern, yes - because while I don't doubt the governments of both countries are spying on that data, I trust the US government far more than I trust the Russian government. A useful series of tweets by @SwiftOnSecurity about why storing data in the US isn't a bad idea: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/775491205983371264?lang=en-gb https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/77549120598337126...

oneloop 10y ago
You trust the us gov? The same that has denied manning his/her rights, driven her to suicide and now hunger strike? The same that got sweden prosecutors to re-instate assange's rape accusations after they had been independently dismissed by the initial prosecutor, so they can extradite him to the us? Ok buddy, keep trusting the us gov. I think you've been so thoroughly brain-washed by russian-hating american media that you can't even think straight any more. I realise that this isn't really an argument, but I already presented my argument (that with the usa gov you have facts, whereas the russian gov you have suspicions) and it didn't seem to make a difference, so i don't really care to continue this conversation.
- untog 10y ago
  Jesus Christ. No. It ought to be obvious to anyone that applying black and white judgements in these situations is idiotic. Do I think the US government is beyond reproach? No. Do I think the US government is more open and accountable than the Russian government? Yes. > (that with the usa gov you have facts, whereas the russian gov you have suspicions) Yes, because the US government is open and accountable enough that this information is public. The same cannot be said for the Russian government.
  - alexro 10y ago
    Would Snowden agree with you?
    - untog 10y ago
      That's actually a very interesting question. I don't know. And I doubt he is currently in a position to be very frank and honest about it.
      - oneloop 10y ago
        There you go with your anti-russian bullshit again. Snowden talks shit about russia as well all the time. Why wouldn't he? Because putin comes and kill him, right?
daxorid 10y ago
One word: jurisdiction. The GU might read my emails, but they don't have the authority to execute 4am raids on my property and kill me with impunity in the name of "officer safety" as an eventual consequence of something XKeyScore flagged. At the end of the day, the people who have the guns and the authority to use them against you take a more prominent place in one's threat model than a foreign entity with no jurisdiction.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> You seem to think that having your data hosted in Moscow is a worse privacy concern than in USA? Yes. In fact, I'd say that's the case even if your only concern is with the US government. Virtually all of the controversy over US government actions with regard to local data is about violation of expectations (some of which are codified into law) about domestic surveillance by doing things which are uncontroversial in the context of foreign surveillance, and its not like the US lacks capacity or will for foreign surveillance. That said, Russia doesn't even have the constraints (legal or mere expectations) on domestic surveillance that the US domestic actions raise concern for violating, so if your concern extends beyond US government surveillance, then that compounds the problem when hosting in Russia.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

The USA is probably bad, but hides it well. Russia makes no qualms about hiding it.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

How many reporters and dissidents are murdered in the US versus Russia? Russia is way worse in civil rights and surveillance. Doesnt excuse America for the schemes they pull but it's definitely safer here unless you're in the hood.

zzzcpan 10y ago
Well, it's kind of safe for their citizens too, if they don't get involved in the things that get them killed, as those are not random things. But civil rights aside, online surveillance there is not yet at the level of reading everyone's emails and while they really want to do that they have a hard time implementing something like this for various reasons. It's definitely safer to use those online services, than the ones in your own country or allies.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  How do you know that? Russia doesnt publish what Russian intelligence is doing. They also don't have a Snowden who leaked almost all their secrets. That we did is only reason you can make thag comparison. I'd love to see an equivalent dunp for Russia to do the comparison. ;)
  - zzzcpan 10y ago
    It's not like that in Russia, they don't benefit from hiding surveillance, they do it openly. They had SORM for some time now, but only recently, like a month ago, created a law attempting to force local companies to implement backdoors and provide access to and store everything they have on users, etc.