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Precisely. Manufacturing is hard/messy - the cavalier attitude that Apple/Google have with quality doesn't fly here. I'll believe that Tesla is a real player i

Precisely. Manufacturing is hard/messy - the cavalier attitude that Apple/Google have with quality doesn't fly here. I'll believe that Tesla is a real player if they're able to scale to 500K/units a year.

FabHK 10y ago
To be fair, Apple has been doing hardware since, well, the Apple I in 1976.
- mey 10y ago
  Consumer electronics has slightly different engineering requirements, liabilities and scope than automobiles.
  - FabHK 10y ago
    Sure, not to mention lifecycle. I was just reacting to the "Manufacturing is hard/messy" - no doubt, but Apple has been orchestrating manufacturing at a huge scale to exacting tolerances for a while now. Google does software (plus Glass, Nest, Chromebooks, ok, Nexus, etc., maybe, but mostly software...), while Apple has been been doing hardware and software all along.
  - threeseed 10y ago
    Emphasis on slightly different. Apple easily has the experience and capability to handle automotive electronics.
- c06n 10y ago
  The automotive world and software engineering are very far apart. There are very few people who are truly at home in both. What Apple does is consumer grade, not safety critical. Let's just take EMC. I'm sure Apple does think about that, but that is nothing compared what you have to do for a car.
- vacri 10y ago
  "You're driving it wrong" will cut it even less well with cars than it did with phones.
  - themartorana 10y ago
    Hopefully no one will be driving by then.
  - Bromlife 10y ago
    Hopefully the sentence would be: "You're driving it, wrong."
  - snowwrestler 10y ago
    And yet the iPhone 4 sold very well for 3+ years after that "controversy" subsided.
- amelius 10y ago
  The problem with Apple is that they sell high-end products with a luxury/status component. The problem with that is that fewer and fewer people actually want to own a car. Transportation is becoming a service, as opposed to a physical product.
  - dntrkv 10y ago
    Do you have any data to back that up? Because automobile sales in the US are at near all-time highs.
    - dgacmu 10y ago
      Not on a per-capita basis: https://petemurphy.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/per-capita-u-s-auto-sales-declining/ https://petemurphy.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/per-capita-u-s-a... (the population is also at an all-time high. ;)
    - amelius 10y ago
      https://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why https://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-ab...
vkou 10y ago
For a low-end luxury vehicle manufacturer, Tesla has a lot of quality problems. Why not assume that Toyota will be the big player? They are obsessive about quality... And ship 10 million vehicles a year.
- chaostheory 10y ago
  No one doubts that Toyota will be a big player. It's just that no one is really excited about hydrogen cars on the highway.
  - cLeEOGPw 10y ago
    I'm excited about the idea, but the implementation so far is more than underwhelming. While power cells are much more advanced, but I don't write off any of those. I can see the appeal of electric cars though, as the infrastructure would be much cheaper than hydrogen.

FabHK 10y ago

To be fair, Apple has been doing hardware since, well, the Apple I in 1976.

mey 10y ago
Consumer electronics has slightly different engineering requirements, liabilities and scope than automobiles.
- FabHK 10y ago
  Sure, not to mention lifecycle. I was just reacting to the "Manufacturing is hard/messy" - no doubt, but Apple has been orchestrating manufacturing at a huge scale to exacting tolerances for a while now. Google does software (plus Glass, Nest, Chromebooks, ok, Nexus, etc., maybe, but mostly software...), while Apple has been been doing hardware and software all along.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Emphasis on slightly different. Apple easily has the experience and capability to handle automotive electronics.
c06n 10y ago
The automotive world and software engineering are very far apart. There are very few people who are truly at home in both. What Apple does is consumer grade, not safety critical. Let's just take EMC. I'm sure Apple does think about that, but that is nothing compared what you have to do for a car.
vacri 10y ago
"You're driving it wrong" will cut it even less well with cars than it did with phones.
- themartorana 10y ago
  Hopefully no one will be driving by then.
- Bromlife 10y ago
  Hopefully the sentence would be: "You're driving it, wrong."
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  And yet the iPhone 4 sold very well for 3+ years after that "controversy" subsided.
amelius 10y ago
The problem with Apple is that they sell high-end products with a luxury/status component. The problem with that is that fewer and fewer people actually want to own a car. Transportation is becoming a service, as opposed to a physical product.
- dntrkv 10y ago
  Do you have any data to back that up? Because automobile sales in the US are at near all-time highs.
  - dgacmu 10y ago
    Not on a per-capita basis: https://petemurphy.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/per-capita-u-s-auto-sales-declining/ https://petemurphy.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/per-capita-u-s-a... (the population is also at an all-time high. ;)
  - amelius 10y ago
    https://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why https://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-ab...

vkou 10y ago

For a low-end luxury vehicle manufacturer, Tesla has a lot of quality problems. Why not assume that Toyota will be the big player? They are obsessive about quality... And ship 10 million vehicles a year.

chaostheory 10y ago
No one doubts that Toyota will be a big player. It's just that no one is really excited about hydrogen cars on the highway.
- cLeEOGPw 10y ago
  I'm excited about the idea, but the implementation so far is more than underwhelming. While power cells are much more advanced, but I don't write off any of those. I can see the appeal of electric cars though, as the infrastructure would be much cheaper than hydrogen.