5 ms·

Funny. The idea of need for innovation in printing strikes me as anachronistic. Printing itself should be on the decline and increasingly outmoded. If anything

Funny. The idea of need for innovation in printing strikes me as anachronistic. Printing itself should be on the decline and increasingly outmoded. If anything, we need to focus on killing faxing and paper as a medium once and for all. Sure, there may always (or at least long) be a need for hard-copy for some applications, but it hardly strikes me as sufficient to drive need for innovation in printers.

ebiester 10y ago
Our screens are still not good enough to avoid eye strain and still do not provide the tactile arrangement paper does. I have been typing as long as I have been reading, and I will still go to hard copy if I have to edit a manuscript of any length. We still need printers.
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  I agree, and that makes my point. The need for innovation is in technologies that can adequately replace paper; not in better printers.
- copperx 10y ago
  Apple's retina screens take care of the resolution aspect. However, the software side needs a new paradigm to deal with digital paper. PDF files are not the solution.
  - ebiester 10y ago
    I need to look at four pieces of paper and write on them and draw arrows on them at once without breaking my flow. That's four ipads at this point, and there's still no great way of flipping between pages. There is something about the 3Dness of a stack of papers that makes moving to digital difficult.
unclebucknasty 10y ago
Down votes. Makes sense. Sure, one might be tempted to think that advocating a paperless world would be non-controversial here. But, yes, let's rush headlong into the world of driverless cars, while holding on to a relatively minor update to 15th century technology at all costs. I wonder if HN know how much it parodies itself at times.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  From my observations: your first comment might have fared better if it was posted as a question. The downvotes on the last one were most likely because you complained about the first ones, against site guidelines. Anyways, here, have a couple of upvotes, -I haven't found any way to exchange mine for cash :-]
  - unclebucknasty 10y ago
    Thanks, I have actually figured out a way to make millions on them. In seriousness, I agree that they are completely worthless as far as it goes. In fact, I've ranted in the past that the concept of downvotes is outright juvenile. Along those lines, I'm more complaining that they too frequently take the place of discussion, submarine dissenting opinions, and encourage group-think. Which is also why I don't pose my opinions in the form of a question. I'm one of those people who believes it's OK to plainly and respectfully express a dissenting belief, without apologizing for it. In fact, do you know of any other path to a better world? (See what I did there?)
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      : )
    - hx87 10y ago
      > I'm one of those people who believes it's OK to plainly and respectfully express a dissenting belief, without apologizing for it. And I believe that downvotes are one avenue of doing so.
sj4nz 10y ago
Paper is fantastic for auditing and archival. You can't sanitize your dirty deeds if you can't prevent your sins from appearing on the souls of dead trees locked in their fire-proof chambers. Until we start using content-hashing for everything you cannot trust the "permanence" of bits because you cannot detect their tampering. Faxing is 90% dead as far as I can tell. I've got a fax machine, I think the last time I plugged it in was 2008. Most of the lack of innovation in printers (and scanners) comes from the problem that, once you've bought their hardware, there is no incentive to make the software that ships-by-default with it great. The innovation isn't the hardware, the innovation is waiting, stuck between the hardware and the operating system (e.g. why does my Brother mysteriously screw up my right margins on Windows?) and stuck between the application and the user. The operating-system printing dialogs are way too complicated for mere users and the printer-manufacturer's printing-dialogs are mostly rebranded operating-system printing dialogs. Users just want their bits to burn onto their paper, appropriately and reliably. You know, it might not be such a bad idea to make a printer-bot ala a RepRap that allowed you to put any writing instrument you wanted into the cross-hairs and slowly draw out your documents like a plotter. The ink might be "cheaper" that way and it would be kind of fun to watch 8 of them on your wall draw your documents concurrently.
- SixSigma 10y ago
  > make a printer-bot ... that allowed you to put any writing instrument you wanted into the cross-hairs and slowly draw out your documents like a plotter. http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/846 http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/846 Mine is on order
  - sevensor 10y ago
    That's amazing!
- fluxquanta 10y ago
  >Faxing is 90% dead as far as I can tell. I've got a fax machine, I think the last time I plugged it in was 2008. Depends on the industry. I would say probably 80% of the clients I work with still rely on faxing as a regular part of doing business. Is it the ideal way of sending documents? Probably not, but I've also never heard of anyone who had to call in technical support to clear off malware or reformat their fax machine. It just works.
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
This has finally been happening, world wide paper volumes are decreasing, from http://www.mypurchasingcenter.com/commodities/commodities-articles/2016-paper-packaging-price-forecasts-oil-wildcard/ http://www.mypurchasingcenter.com/commodities/commodities-ar... "overall printing and writing paper demand in the U.S. has declined by about 4% in 2014 and there will be a similar contraction in 2015"

ebiester 10y ago

Our screens are still not good enough to avoid eye strain and still do not provide the tactile arrangement paper does. I have been typing as long as I have been reading, and I will still go to hard copy if I have to edit a manuscript of any length. We still need printers.

unclebucknasty 10y ago
I agree, and that makes my point. The need for innovation is in technologies that can adequately replace paper; not in better printers.
copperx 10y ago
Apple's retina screens take care of the resolution aspect. However, the software side needs a new paradigm to deal with digital paper. PDF files are not the solution.
- ebiester 10y ago
  I need to look at four pieces of paper and write on them and draw arrows on them at once without breaking my flow. That's four ipads at this point, and there's still no great way of flipping between pages. There is something about the 3Dness of a stack of papers that makes moving to digital difficult.

unclebucknasty 10y ago

Down votes. Makes sense. Sure, one might be tempted to think that advocating a paperless world would be non-controversial here. But, yes, let's rush headlong into the world of driverless cars, while holding on to a relatively minor update to 15th century technology at all costs. I wonder if HN know how much it parodies itself at times.

reitanqild 10y ago
From my observations: your first comment might have fared better if it was posted as a question. The downvotes on the last one were most likely because you complained about the first ones, against site guidelines. Anyways, here, have a couple of upvotes, -I haven't found any way to exchange mine for cash :-]
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  Thanks, I have actually figured out a way to make millions on them. In seriousness, I agree that they are completely worthless as far as it goes. In fact, I've ranted in the past that the concept of downvotes is outright juvenile. Along those lines, I'm more complaining that they too frequently take the place of discussion, submarine dissenting opinions, and encourage group-think. Which is also why I don't pose my opinions in the form of a question. I'm one of those people who believes it's OK to plainly and respectfully express a dissenting belief, without apologizing for it. In fact, do you know of any other path to a better world? (See what I did there?)
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    : )
  - hx87 10y ago
    > I'm one of those people who believes it's OK to plainly and respectfully express a dissenting belief, without apologizing for it. And I believe that downvotes are one avenue of doing so.

sj4nz 10y ago

Paper is fantastic for auditing and archival. You can't sanitize your dirty deeds if you can't prevent your sins from appearing on the souls of dead trees locked in their fire-proof chambers. Until we start using content-hashing for everything you cannot trust the "permanence" of bits because you cannot detect their tampering. Faxing is 90% dead as far as I can tell. I've got a fax machine, I think the last time I plugged it in was 2008. Most of the lack of innovation in printers (and scanners) comes from the problem that, once you've bought their hardware, there is no incentive to make the software that ships-by-default with it great. The innovation isn't the hardware, the innovation is waiting, stuck between the hardware and the operating system (e.g. why does my Brother mysteriously screw up my right margins on Windows?) and stuck between the application and the user. The operating-system printing dialogs are way too complicated for mere users and the printer-manufacturer's printing-dialogs are mostly rebranded operating-system printing dialogs. Users just want their bits to burn onto their paper, appropriately and reliably. You know, it might not be such a bad idea to make a printer-bot ala a RepRap that allowed you to put any writing instrument you wanted into the cross-hairs and slowly draw out your documents like a plotter. The ink might be "cheaper" that way and it would be kind of fun to watch 8 of them on your wall draw your documents concurrently.

SixSigma 10y ago
> make a printer-bot ... that allowed you to put any writing instrument you wanted into the cross-hairs and slowly draw out your documents like a plotter. http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/846 http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/846 Mine is on order
- sevensor 10y ago
  That's amazing!
fluxquanta 10y ago
>Faxing is 90% dead as far as I can tell. I've got a fax machine, I think the last time I plugged it in was 2008. Depends on the industry. I would say probably 80% of the clients I work with still rely on faxing as a regular part of doing business. Is it the ideal way of sending documents? Probably not, but I've also never heard of anyone who had to call in technical support to clear off malware or reformat their fax machine. It just works.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

This has finally been happening, world wide paper volumes are decreasing, from http://www.mypurchasingcenter.com/commodities/commodities-articles/2016-paper-packaging-price-forecasts-oil-wildcard/ http://www.mypurchasingcenter.com/commodities/commodities-ar... "overall printing and writing paper demand in the U.S. has declined by about 4% in 2014 and there will be a similar contraction in 2015"