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You are correct and this comments section (and it modding) demonstrates a fantastically shallow understanding of the Middle East that is easily addressed by air

You are correct and this comments section (and it modding) demonstrates a fantastically shallow understanding of the Middle East that is easily addressed by airport bookstores. Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are...

FireBeyond 10y ago
Not that our military aren't intelligent and capable of cultivating their own opinions, but their training and ongoing survival in the arena of combat depends on identification of people as the enemy as 'will they put a bullet in you?' rather than the 'righteousness' of their beliefs or ideology. This is a similarly shallow response.
- travmatt 10y ago
  It's less of 'will they put a bullet in you' and more of 'Iran is the worlds greatest expert in the development and use of IEDs explicitly designed to maim and murder American forces, as in they have engineering staff embedded with insurgent groups teaching new ways of piercing American armored personnel carriers.'
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    That wasn't a literalism. Of course I'm aware of the use of IEDs as a contrast to the traditional firefight. But saying that forces on the ground are the best and most objective at assessing who is in the right and the wrong in these conflicts, who is 'good' and 'bad' is simply farcical, because all of the indoctrination and (indeed necessary) biases ("identify this person/group as bad, as they are a direct threat to my life, even though their overarching motivations may be the most noble") warp their perspective.
    - travmatt 10y ago
      I can understand the notion that there is enough fault to go around, and that every group is incentivized to see the fault in every other group. But my point is that Iran is unique in that it foments religious terrorism as matter of state policy unmatched in the world. Quds forces aren't exploiting religious people for their ends, they are true believers who are actively trying to bring their Islamist revolution to the rest of the world in a systematic and patient way. A subjective and clearheaded analysis of available facts must lead to the conclusion that it's a literal terrorist state, and I think the poster you responded to is trying to dispel the false equivalency and 'what-aboutism' so prevalent in this thread and Chomsky-ist worldviews.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
flukus 10y ago
> Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are... I doubt they would recognize themselves as the bad guys.

FireBeyond 10y ago

Not that our military aren't intelligent and capable of cultivating their own opinions, but their training and ongoing survival in the arena of combat depends on identification of people as the enemy as 'will they put a bullet in you?' rather than the 'righteousness' of their beliefs or ideology. This is a similarly shallow response.

travmatt 10y ago
It's less of 'will they put a bullet in you' and more of 'Iran is the worlds greatest expert in the development and use of IEDs explicitly designed to maim and murder American forces, as in they have engineering staff embedded with insurgent groups teaching new ways of piercing American armored personnel carriers.'
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  That wasn't a literalism. Of course I'm aware of the use of IEDs as a contrast to the traditional firefight. But saying that forces on the ground are the best and most objective at assessing who is in the right and the wrong in these conflicts, who is 'good' and 'bad' is simply farcical, because all of the indoctrination and (indeed necessary) biases ("identify this person/group as bad, as they are a direct threat to my life, even though their overarching motivations may be the most noble") warp their perspective.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    I can understand the notion that there is enough fault to go around, and that every group is incentivized to see the fault in every other group. But my point is that Iran is unique in that it foments religious terrorism as matter of state policy unmatched in the world. Quds forces aren't exploiting religious people for their ends, they are true believers who are actively trying to bring their Islamist revolution to the rest of the world in a systematic and patient way. A subjective and clearheaded analysis of available facts must lead to the conclusion that it's a literal terrorist state, and I think the poster you responded to is trying to dispel the false equivalency and 'what-aboutism' so prevalent in this thread and Chomsky-ist worldviews.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

flukus 10y ago

> Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are... I doubt they would recognize themselves as the bad guys.