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To be fair, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired terrorism in the world, bar none. No other country has a deep institutional commitment to culti

To be fair, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired terrorism in the world, bar none. No other country has a deep institutional commitment to cultivating and supplying terrorism that can match Iran. Edit: I'd encourage all the downvotes butt hurt by this truth to learn a little more about the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and the Quuds forces. No other country has a special forces dedicated to cultivating, training and supply in terrorists worldwide (groups like Hamas and Hezbollah are only two examples out of many). We're not talking a one-off phenomena, rather a multi-decade program that has split the world into sectors and has dedicated special forces in each area. This is why you have IRG trying to cultivate Islamic extremism in Venezuela, and bombings of Jewish community centers in Argentina. It's literally not a contest; Iran has been the most skilled and successful sponsor of religious terrorism in the world.

srhdmdndtjeyn 10y ago
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia
karma_vaccum123 10y ago
You are correct and this comments section (and it modding) demonstrates a fantastically shallow understanding of the Middle East that is easily addressed by airport bookstores. Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are...
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Not that our military aren't intelligent and capable of cultivating their own opinions, but their training and ongoing survival in the arena of combat depends on identification of people as the enemy as 'will they put a bullet in you?' rather than the 'righteousness' of their beliefs or ideology. This is a similarly shallow response.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    It's less of 'will they put a bullet in you' and more of 'Iran is the worlds greatest expert in the development and use of IEDs explicitly designed to maim and murder American forces, as in they have engineering staff embedded with insurgent groups teaching new ways of piercing American armored personnel carriers.'
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      That wasn't a literalism. Of course I'm aware of the use of IEDs as a contrast to the traditional firefight. But saying that forces on the ground are the best and most objective at assessing who is in the right and the wrong in these conflicts, who is 'good' and 'bad' is simply farcical, because all of the indoctrination and (indeed necessary) biases ("identify this person/group as bad, as they are a direct threat to my life, even though their overarching motivations may be the most noble") warp their perspective.
      - travmatt 10y ago
        I can understand the notion that there is enough fault to go around, and that every group is incentivized to see the fault in every other group. But my point is that Iran is unique in that it foments religious terrorism as matter of state policy unmatched in the world. Quds forces aren't exploiting religious people for their ends, they are true believers who are actively trying to bring their Islamist revolution to the rest of the world in a systematic and patient way. A subjective and clearheaded analysis of available facts must lead to the conclusion that it's a literal terrorist state, and I think the poster you responded to is trying to dispel the false equivalency and 'what-aboutism' so prevalent in this thread and Chomsky-ist worldviews.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- flukus 10y ago
  > Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are... I doubt they would recognize themselves as the bad guys.
tomjen3 10y ago
That's extremely hard to believe given that 9/11 was most likely paid for by official Saudi money and that it is well known that they have exported tons of people to Syria and Isis
- travmatt 10y ago
  I disagree with the supposition 9/11 was proven to be a state sponsored attack, showing that individuals inside the Saudi government funneled money to terrorism isn't equivalent to saying that Saudi government planned the attack. You're ignoring the main thrust of my argument, that the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. To this end the Iranian government has been closely involved in cultivating religious terrorism across the world for decades. You say that people expelled from Saudi Arabia end up in IS, this claim pales in comparison to the training, logistical support and technical expertise Iran directs to groups it helped create like Hamas and hezbollah. When american soldiers are killed by an IED in Iraq, it is most likely Iranian special forces that taught those terrorists how to make the IED, supplied the materials for it, and work closely with said groups to track their lethality and suggest improvements. They've literally dedicated engineers to inventing new IEDs to help penetrate American personnel carriers and kill more American troops. Again, the difference here is everything I just said is the Iranian government formally coordinating with terrorists across the world in order to improve their lethality, not some rogue faction.
  - fit2rule 10y ago
    > the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. The same is true of the USA. Whether you agree with them or not is highly dependent on whether you stand to be a beneficiary of the spoils of their wars, or not. And, btw, the CIA has exported far, far more terror than the IRG ever has.
    - travmatt 10y ago
      I personally find the subject-changing 'what-aboutism'of Chomsky-ists tiring and repitive, but I'll bite. Iran is currently the largest exporter of religiously inspired extremism, bar none. They are not engaged in short-term realpolitik that installs favorable governments in previously unfavorable countries. The IRG and Quds forces are true believers who see it as their duty to cultivate religious extremism across the world, and have been practicing their trade for the past several _decades_. There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long, and this is why Iran has such a powerful sphere of influence. These groups see the success of clients like Hamas and Hezbollah as their crowning achievements, and have been actively cultivating similar groups for the past several decades. Again, the indisputable fact that I keep harping on is that Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none. If the same was true of Saudi Arabia there is no doubt western liberals would have no problem publicly flagellating themselves, but since America is currently hostile towards Iran there are inevitably 'what-abouters' who will pop up and defend the propagation of violent interpretations of Shia ideology. If you would like to contradict this fact, you could probably start by naming the US forces that Christian theology using torture, bombings, and creation of fundamentalist Christian terror groups. Until then, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none.
xenadu02 10y ago
That's a bit glib; much like the USA there are a wide variety of opinions and what the conservative-leaning government chooses to do doesn't necessarily align with what the people want. In Iran that is due to the Ayatollah Khomeini and his crew. (Nominally he isn't a dictator, in theory he is, in reality there are politics and practical considerations.) In the USA, it is due to Republican gerrymandering (total votes cast for Senate and House slightly favor Democrats, but they don't hold majorities in either house. Same for state legislatures - half of the republican controlled states had majority votes for Democrats).
- travmatt 10y ago
  I was responding to the notion that the US doesn't like Iran, I was hoping to elucidate some reasons as to why.

srhdmdndtjeyn 10y ago

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia

karma_vaccum123 10y ago

You are correct and this comments section (and it modding) demonstrates a fantastically shallow understanding of the Middle East that is easily addressed by airport bookstores. Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are...

FireBeyond 10y ago
Not that our military aren't intelligent and capable of cultivating their own opinions, but their training and ongoing survival in the arena of combat depends on identification of people as the enemy as 'will they put a bullet in you?' rather than the 'righteousness' of their beliefs or ideology. This is a similarly shallow response.
- travmatt 10y ago
  It's less of 'will they put a bullet in you' and more of 'Iran is the worlds greatest expert in the development and use of IEDs explicitly designed to maim and murder American forces, as in they have engineering staff embedded with insurgent groups teaching new ways of piercing American armored personnel carriers.'
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    That wasn't a literalism. Of course I'm aware of the use of IEDs as a contrast to the traditional firefight. But saying that forces on the ground are the best and most objective at assessing who is in the right and the wrong in these conflicts, who is 'good' and 'bad' is simply farcical, because all of the indoctrination and (indeed necessary) biases ("identify this person/group as bad, as they are a direct threat to my life, even though their overarching motivations may be the most noble") warp their perspective.
    - travmatt 10y ago
      I can understand the notion that there is enough fault to go around, and that every group is incentivized to see the fault in every other group. But my point is that Iran is unique in that it foments religious terrorism as matter of state policy unmatched in the world. Quds forces aren't exploiting religious people for their ends, they are true believers who are actively trying to bring their Islamist revolution to the rest of the world in a systematic and patient way. A subjective and clearheaded analysis of available facts must lead to the conclusion that it's a literal terrorist state, and I think the poster you responded to is trying to dispel the false equivalency and 'what-aboutism' so prevalent in this thread and Chomsky-ist worldviews.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
flukus 10y ago
> Surely some of you know someone who has served in the US armed forces in the Middle East. Ask them who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are... I doubt they would recognize themselves as the bad guys.

tomjen3 10y ago

That's extremely hard to believe given that 9/11 was most likely paid for by official Saudi money and that it is well known that they have exported tons of people to Syria and Isis

travmatt 10y ago
I disagree with the supposition 9/11 was proven to be a state sponsored attack, showing that individuals inside the Saudi government funneled money to terrorism isn't equivalent to saying that Saudi government planned the attack. You're ignoring the main thrust of my argument, that the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. To this end the Iranian government has been closely involved in cultivating religious terrorism across the world for decades. You say that people expelled from Saudi Arabia end up in IS, this claim pales in comparison to the training, logistical support and technical expertise Iran directs to groups it helped create like Hamas and hezbollah. When american soldiers are killed by an IED in Iraq, it is most likely Iranian special forces that taught those terrorists how to make the IED, supplied the materials for it, and work closely with said groups to track their lethality and suggest improvements. They've literally dedicated engineers to inventing new IEDs to help penetrate American personnel carriers and kill more American troops. Again, the difference here is everything I just said is the Iranian government formally coordinating with terrorists across the world in order to improve their lethality, not some rogue faction.
- fit2rule 10y ago
  > the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. The same is true of the USA. Whether you agree with them or not is highly dependent on whether you stand to be a beneficiary of the spoils of their wars, or not. And, btw, the CIA has exported far, far more terror than the IRG ever has.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    I personally find the subject-changing 'what-aboutism'of Chomsky-ists tiring and repitive, but I'll bite. Iran is currently the largest exporter of religiously inspired extremism, bar none. They are not engaged in short-term realpolitik that installs favorable governments in previously unfavorable countries. The IRG and Quds forces are true believers who see it as their duty to cultivate religious extremism across the world, and have been practicing their trade for the past several _decades_. There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long, and this is why Iran has such a powerful sphere of influence. These groups see the success of clients like Hamas and Hezbollah as their crowning achievements, and have been actively cultivating similar groups for the past several decades. Again, the indisputable fact that I keep harping on is that Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none. If the same was true of Saudi Arabia there is no doubt western liberals would have no problem publicly flagellating themselves, but since America is currently hostile towards Iran there are inevitably 'what-abouters' who will pop up and defend the propagation of violent interpretations of Shia ideology. If you would like to contradict this fact, you could probably start by naming the US forces that Christian theology using torture, bombings, and creation of fundamentalist Christian terror groups. Until then, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none.

xenadu02 10y ago

That's a bit glib; much like the USA there are a wide variety of opinions and what the conservative-leaning government chooses to do doesn't necessarily align with what the people want. In Iran that is due to the Ayatollah Khomeini and his crew. (Nominally he isn't a dictator, in theory he is, in reality there are politics and practical considerations.) In the USA, it is due to Republican gerrymandering (total votes cast for Senate and House slightly favor Democrats, but they don't hold majorities in either house. Same for state legislatures - half of the republican controlled states had majority votes for Democrats).

travmatt 10y ago
I was responding to the notion that the US doesn't like Iran, I was hoping to elucidate some reasons as to why.