4 ms·

"Golly, your honor, I had no idea that magnet links could be clickable and that, if people clicked, they could download the file, thereby facilitating copyright

by biot 10y ago

"Golly, your honor, I had no idea that magnet links could be clickable and that, if people clicked, they could download the file, thereby facilitating copyright infringement..." Good luck selling that line of argument. You might have an argument if the protocol actually did trigger off of unlinked UPC codes and sites didn't have to construct special links that conform to a standard (in which case you could download movies by browsing Amazon or IMDB). But if a site publishes magnet links there is no denying knowledge of what those links do. Or I guess you could try to deny but no judge or jury with an IQ over 50 would believe it.

Dylan16807 10y ago
I'm not saying the argument should be ignorance, rather that it should be lack of causality. The user has to specifically configure their system to turn these magnet IDs into a piracy opportunity. Or they have to copy each one into their torrent client of choice. Just like if I review an illegal drug and tell everyone exactly what it is so you can get the right thing from your supplier... I'm still not your supplier, I don't know who you are or where you go to buy such things. I'm not in the drug trade. I'm sure I can find plenty of 5 star weed reviews that nobody would call illegal, even though they're calling out specific brands in a way that someone could trivially turn into a purchase.
- biot 10y ago
  By that line of reasoning you could publish a website with information on hitmen for hire and put their phone number beside each listing. After all it's just a sequence of numbers and the user has to manually call or configure their device to place the phone call.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    That's more like a tracker. A closer analogy to magnet links is that I tell you a hashtag that's used by a particular sort of hitman, and you use that to find your own hitmen on the social media site of your choice.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  > rather that it should be lack of causality I don't think causality is the right metric here, rather it's the fact that you're facilitating a criminal act -- you're making it easier for someone to break the law. The proportional amount by which you facilitate the action ought to matter. If a drug is going to cost you $50 and all I did was point you in the right direction, you still need to cough up another $50. But if finding the right link and downloading some tool is all I need to do, then by providing the link you've taken me at least halfway, and maybe more if I already had the tool.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    Would that mean the cheaper the drug is, the more proportional responsibility I have for pointing you the way? Your efficiency tools should not make my actions more illegal.
    - smallnamespace 10y ago
      > _Your_ efficiency tools should not make _my_ actions more illegal. Why would you expect that to be an invariant in the legal system? Your actions take place in the context of the world; the context should affect how someone judges your actions. The key point is whether you personally know (and if the prosecution can show it) that providing a link is tantamount to allowing someone to easily download it.
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        Context matters, but we should only take links so far. Otherwise we ban all ISPs for facilitating piracy. They even encourage people going to youtube and watching illegally uploaded videos!
        smallnamespace 10y ago
        That's why there is explicit safe harbor protection for ISPs. The safe harbor doesn't come for free, it requires affirmative action on the ISP or Youtube's part to take down content that they know is illegal. Any hypothetical torrent-sharing site could take advantage of that protection as well, as long as it followed those take-down provisions.

by biot 10y ago

Dylan16807 10y ago

I'm not saying the argument should be ignorance, rather that it should be lack of causality. The user has to specifically configure their system to turn these magnet IDs into a piracy opportunity. Or they have to copy each one into their torrent client of choice. Just like if I review an illegal drug and tell everyone exactly what it is so you can get the right thing from your supplier... I'm still not your supplier, I don't know who you are or where you go to buy such things. I'm not in the drug trade. I'm sure I can find plenty of 5 star weed reviews that nobody would call illegal, even though they're calling out specific brands in a way that someone could trivially turn into a purchase.

biot 10y ago
By that line of reasoning you could publish a website with information on hitmen for hire and put their phone number beside each listing. After all it's just a sequence of numbers and the user has to manually call or configure their device to place the phone call.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  That's more like a tracker. A closer analogy to magnet links is that I tell you a hashtag that's used by a particular sort of hitman, and you use that to find your own hitmen on the social media site of your choice.
smallnamespace 10y ago
> rather that it should be lack of causality I don't think causality is the right metric here, rather it's the fact that you're facilitating a criminal act -- you're making it easier for someone to break the law. The proportional amount by which you facilitate the action ought to matter. If a drug is going to cost you $50 and all I did was point you in the right direction, you still need to cough up another $50. But if finding the right link and downloading some tool is all I need to do, then by providing the link you've taken me at least halfway, and maybe more if I already had the tool.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  Would that mean the cheaper the drug is, the more proportional responsibility I have for pointing you the way? Your efficiency tools should not make my actions more illegal.
  - smallnamespace 10y ago
    > _Your_ efficiency tools should not make _my_ actions more illegal. Why would you expect that to be an invariant in the legal system? Your actions take place in the context of the world; the context should affect how someone judges your actions. The key point is whether you personally know (and if the prosecution can show it) that providing a link is tantamount to allowing someone to easily download it.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      Context matters, but we should only take links so far. Otherwise we ban all ISPs for facilitating piracy. They even encourage people going to youtube and watching illegally uploaded videos!
      - smallnamespace 10y ago
        That's why there is explicit safe harbor protection for ISPs. The safe harbor doesn't come for free, it requires affirmative action on the ISP or Youtube's part to take down content that they know is illegal. Any hypothetical torrent-sharing site could take advantage of that protection as well, as long as it followed those take-down provisions.