4 ms·

Torrent sites merely hosting an ID that describes a file? You say that as if they are publishing UPC codes. The problem with that description is that clicking t

by biot 10y ago

Torrent sites merely hosting an ID that describes a file? You say that as if they are publishing UPC codes. The problem with that description is that clicking the ID launches an application that connects to other peers and proceeds to download the file in question in violation of copyright law. That's the entire point. The equivalent would be a site that contains an ID for illegal drugs, and when you click the link it connects to a pharmaceutical 3D printer that instantly constructs the drug from raw materials in violation of narcotics law.

Dylan16807 10y ago
> The equivalent would be a site that contains an ID for illegal drugs, and when you click the link it connects to a pharmaceutical 3D printer that instantly constructs the drug from raw materials in violation of narcotics law. And the user had to previously choose how to route these requests to 3D printers through a completely independent application. The original site itself doesn't make the IDs do anything. By default clicking those magnet links does nothing at all. A UPC code is a good analogy. So the printer is clearly doing illegal things. But is the original site illegal because a totally different person automated drug-buying? And it's not a pachinko setup either. These are truly independent actors.
- biot 10y ago
  "Golly, your honor, I had no idea that magnet links could be clickable and that, if people clicked, they could download the file, thereby facilitating copyright infringement..." Good luck selling that line of argument. You might have an argument if the protocol actually did trigger off of unlinked UPC codes and sites didn't have to construct special links that conform to a standard (in which case you could download movies by browsing Amazon or IMDB). But if a site publishes magnet links there is no denying knowledge of what those links do. Or I guess you could try to deny but no judge or jury with an IQ over 50 would believe it.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    I'm not saying the argument should be ignorance, rather that it should be lack of causality. The user has to specifically configure their system to turn these magnet IDs into a piracy opportunity. Or they have to copy each one into their torrent client of choice. Just like if I review an illegal drug and tell everyone exactly what it is so you can get the right thing from your supplier... I'm still not your supplier, I don't know who you are or where you go to buy such things. I'm not in the drug trade. I'm sure I can find plenty of 5 star weed reviews that nobody would call illegal, even though they're calling out specific brands in a way that someone could trivially turn into a purchase.
    - biot 10y ago
      By that line of reasoning you could publish a website with information on hitmen for hire and put their phone number beside each listing. After all it's just a sequence of numbers and the user has to manually call or configure their device to place the phone call.
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        That's more like a tracker. A closer analogy to magnet links is that I tell you a hashtag that's used by a particular sort of hitman, and you use that to find your own hitmen on the social media site of your choice.
    - smallnamespace 10y ago
      > rather that it should be lack of causality I don't think causality is the right metric here, rather it's the fact that you're facilitating a criminal act -- you're making it easier for someone to break the law. The proportional amount by which you facilitate the action ought to matter. If a drug is going to cost you $50 and all I did was point you in the right direction, you still need to cough up another $50. But if finding the right link and downloading some tool is all I need to do, then by providing the link you've taken me at least halfway, and maybe more if I already had the tool.

by biot 10y ago

Dylan16807 10y ago

> The equivalent would be a site that contains an ID for illegal drugs, and when you click the link it connects to a pharmaceutical 3D printer that instantly constructs the drug from raw materials in violation of narcotics law. And the user had to previously choose how to route these requests to 3D printers through a completely independent application. The original site itself doesn't make the IDs do anything. By default clicking those magnet links does nothing at all. A UPC code is a good analogy. So the printer is clearly doing illegal things. But is the original site illegal because a totally different person automated drug-buying? And it's not a pachinko setup either. These are truly independent actors.

biot 10y ago
"Golly, your honor, I had no idea that magnet links could be clickable and that, if people clicked, they could download the file, thereby facilitating copyright infringement..." Good luck selling that line of argument. You might have an argument if the protocol actually did trigger off of unlinked UPC codes and sites didn't have to construct special links that conform to a standard (in which case you could download movies by browsing Amazon or IMDB). But if a site publishes magnet links there is no denying knowledge of what those links do. Or I guess you could try to deny but no judge or jury with an IQ over 50 would believe it.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  I'm not saying the argument should be ignorance, rather that it should be lack of causality. The user has to specifically configure their system to turn these magnet IDs into a piracy opportunity. Or they have to copy each one into their torrent client of choice. Just like if I review an illegal drug and tell everyone exactly what it is so you can get the right thing from your supplier... I'm still not your supplier, I don't know who you are or where you go to buy such things. I'm not in the drug trade. I'm sure I can find plenty of 5 star weed reviews that nobody would call illegal, even though they're calling out specific brands in a way that someone could trivially turn into a purchase.
  - biot 10y ago
    By that line of reasoning you could publish a website with information on hitmen for hire and put their phone number beside each listing. After all it's just a sequence of numbers and the user has to manually call or configure their device to place the phone call.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      That's more like a tracker. A closer analogy to magnet links is that I tell you a hashtag that's used by a particular sort of hitman, and you use that to find your own hitmen on the social media site of your choice.
  - smallnamespace 10y ago
    > rather that it should be lack of causality I don't think causality is the right metric here, rather it's the fact that you're facilitating a criminal act -- you're making it easier for someone to break the law. The proportional amount by which you facilitate the action ought to matter. If a drug is going to cost you $50 and all I did was point you in the right direction, you still need to cough up another $50. But if finding the right link and downloading some tool is all I need to do, then by providing the link you've taken me at least halfway, and maybe more if I already had the tool.