7 ms·

This is idiotic. People over 40 trade one set of skills for another (source: I'm over 40). You lose short-term memory, can't juggle too many things simultaneous

by jwr 10y ago

This is idiotic. People over 40 trade one set of skills for another (source: I'm over 40). You lose short-term memory, can't juggle too many things simultaneously, and aren't always up to date on every latest fad. But what you gain is fantastically valuable: intuition, abstract thinking, systems thinking, ability to detect patterns in large systems, ability to notice that certain problems have been solved in a different field, and lots more. As I grow older, I notice these changes, and while I do regret not being able to remember IP addresses after switching to a different window (get a larger monitor, or just copy&paste), I am very happy with the overall shift.

SubiculumCode 10y ago
im sure its all about 40 year olds not wanting to work 70+ hour weeks all the time.
- virmundi 10y ago
  Don't forget that they will probably command a higher wage too. And they will probably take time off for family since they have one.
stcredzero 10y ago
intuition, abstract thinking, systems thinking, ability to detect patterns in large systems, ability to notice that certain problems have been solved in a different field, and lots more. Basically, you become a pattern matching database of non-obvious cost/benefit trade-offs.
- tetrep 10y ago
  > Basically, you become a pattern matching database of non-obvious cost/benefit trade-offs. What some might call "experience." What makes problem solving skills valuable is the ability for the wielder to pattern match effectively. The more problem patterns you can positively match to solution patterns, the more valuable your experience. To a lesser extent, simply being able to identify problem patterns is also very valuable, as if you can avoid the creation of a problem it doesn't matter if you know a solution to it (I don't know how to escape a black hole, so I generally avoid them when traveling in space).
matt_wulfeck 10y ago
All of those things are great, but you're assuming your manager and peers will value them like you do. I see this type of thinking applied to an issue in a way that results in people becoming increasingly irritated. Silicon Valley wants to hear "yes yes yes", not reason why you think XYZ solution won't work.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Exactly: the ability to detect bullshit more quickly is unfortunately an ability not appreciated by many companies. It isn't just SV that has this problem. Those that tend to thrive in these environments past 40 are those who have instead learned play the imperfect system aggressively for their own benefit.
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    Along with that, I think an important value is just not taking wrong ideas personally. So some junior engineer wants to run off and do something that might cause you a head ache. Let them do it and learn from it. Your goal in life can't be to minimize everything that causes pain.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Oh, sure, but I'm not referring to that. It is more likely bullshit from upper management, from even older people...who lost touch with reality long ago.
- gopalv 10y ago
  > All of those things are great, but you're assuming your manager and peers will value you them. The crucial transition is turning yourself into a senior engineer - someone who acts as a force multiplier in your organization (a possibly big organization). The valley problem with that transition is that a lot of value is left to the junior developer due to the startup ecosystem - the engineer who writes the first prototype, shoddily for a demo without worrying about possible future problems. The senior developer is left out in a plateau, if they can't switch back to core developer mode (build demo, get funding, hustle) and back, which is a not a skill issue, but more economical. There's the risk that the switch to a lower pay (for equity, hopefully) affects your next job offer in a BigCo if the idea does not pan out (& most of them don't). The reality of being hired in a Startup is that founders don't like people who aren't "all in". Once you take out "being employee #5" at the startup from the equation, the best part of Bay Area is gone. There lies only one path back in and that's building your own, except there the VCs get to actually pick on your health as a possible risk factor before handing you some $$$.
djb_hackernews 10y ago
Did you read the article? One of the points was employers don't value those skills and traits. They value youth and naivete.
- nine_k 10y ago
  Avoid such an employer in any case. With an attitude like that, they are not likely to build a great product, or win users' trust. Additionally, if you're young and naive, you'll be likely taken advantage of. Why else naivete might be desirable in a business setting?
angryasian 10y ago
>intuition, abstract thinking, systems thinking, ability to detect patterns in large systems, ability to notice that certain problems have been solved in a different field, and lots more. Software tech is the only area that I know of that doesn't care what you've done in the past or have experienced. All that matters is what stupid algorithm you can figure out on a white board in the language they use.

by jwr 10y ago

SubiculumCode 10y ago

im sure its all about 40 year olds not wanting to work 70+ hour weeks all the time.

virmundi 10y ago
Don't forget that they will probably command a higher wage too. And they will probably take time off for family since they have one.

stcredzero 10y ago

intuition, abstract thinking, systems thinking, ability to detect patterns in large systems, ability to notice that certain problems have been solved in a different field, and lots more. Basically, you become a pattern matching database of non-obvious cost/benefit trade-offs.

tetrep 10y ago
> Basically, you become a pattern matching database of non-obvious cost/benefit trade-offs. What some might call "experience." What makes problem solving skills valuable is the ability for the wielder to pattern match effectively. The more problem patterns you can positively match to solution patterns, the more valuable your experience. To a lesser extent, simply being able to identify problem patterns is also very valuable, as if you can avoid the creation of a problem it doesn't matter if you know a solution to it (I don't know how to escape a black hole, so I generally avoid them when traveling in space).

matt_wulfeck 10y ago

All of those things are great, but you're assuming your manager and peers will value them like you do. I see this type of thinking applied to an issue in a way that results in people becoming increasingly irritated. Silicon Valley wants to hear "yes yes yes", not reason why you think XYZ solution won't work.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Exactly: the ability to detect bullshit more quickly is unfortunately an ability not appreciated by many companies. It isn't just SV that has this problem. Those that tend to thrive in these environments past 40 are those who have instead learned play the imperfect system aggressively for their own benefit.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Along with that, I think an important value is just not taking wrong ideas personally. So some junior engineer wants to run off and do something that might cause you a head ache. Let them do it and learn from it. Your goal in life can't be to minimize everything that causes pain.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Oh, sure, but I'm not referring to that. It is more likely bullshit from upper management, from even older people...who lost touch with reality long ago.
gopalv 10y ago
> All of those things are great, but you're assuming your manager and peers will value you them. The crucial transition is turning yourself into a senior engineer - someone who acts as a force multiplier in your organization (a possibly big organization). The valley problem with that transition is that a lot of value is left to the junior developer due to the startup ecosystem - the engineer who writes the first prototype, shoddily for a demo without worrying about possible future problems. The senior developer is left out in a plateau, if they can't switch back to core developer mode (build demo, get funding, hustle) and back, which is a not a skill issue, but more economical. There's the risk that the switch to a lower pay (for equity, hopefully) affects your next job offer in a BigCo if the idea does not pan out (& most of them don't). The reality of being hired in a Startup is that founders don't like people who aren't "all in". Once you take out "being employee #5" at the startup from the equation, the best part of Bay Area is gone. There lies only one path back in and that's building your own, except there the VCs get to actually pick on your health as a possible risk factor before handing you some $$$.

djb_hackernews 10y ago

Did you read the article? One of the points was employers don't value those skills and traits. They value youth and naivete.

nine_k 10y ago
Avoid such an employer in any case. With an attitude like that, they are not likely to build a great product, or win users' trust. Additionally, if you're young and naive, you'll be likely taken advantage of. Why else naivete might be desirable in a business setting?

angryasian 10y ago

>intuition, abstract thinking, systems thinking, ability to detect patterns in large systems, ability to notice that certain problems have been solved in a different field, and lots more. Software tech is the only area that I know of that doesn't care what you've done in the past or have experienced. All that matters is what stupid algorithm you can figure out on a white board in the language they use.