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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

174 points by cbcowans 10y ago

minimaxir 10y ago
Can you add an introductory blurb (education, current company/role) for each respondant? It's hard to tie in experiences to just a first name.
- cbcowans 10y ago
  We intentionally left those out and used pseudonyms so the engineers would feel comfortable answering candidly
  - minimaxir 10y ago
    Ah, missed that note in the intro. That's an approach I disagree with, especially since there are many female engineers who are willing to discuss these issues openly and would benefit from the exposure from The Macro/HN.
    - cbcowans 10y ago
      Absolutely, but we feel like there’s room for more than one approach here. Part of this experiment is to see whether anonymity on both sides allows for a freer discussion. That being said, if women who join the conversation would like to use their real names we'd be glad to post those.
      - andreasklinger 10y ago
        Also those women might not want to diffuse their personal brand. Eg. I imagine it to be quite hard to be primarily known for engineering work and not for "example for female in engineering"
  - wnissen 10y ago
    Love, love, love the pseudonyms chosen, by the way.
  - favorited 10y ago
    Loved the choice of pseudonyms – particularly Ada and Grace!
rcba 10y ago
How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women are already organising, telling stories and advocating for themselves". All views appreciated!
- ozim 10y ago
  Dude, politics, stay away from that. Specially if you have to ask such questions.
  - rcba 10y ago
    Is this not part of the problem? How will anything get solved if we all shy away from difficult problems?
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Im not answering your main question because Im not sure I have a good one. I will address the risk. What's happening is an Us vs Them situation developing around that very issue. You might end up fighting with this group in a way that impacts your career badly. If any SJW's in there, they will passive-aggressively bait you into saying or doing something they can portray as sexist or unprofessional while appearing blameless themselves. These people are small percentage of people who take action but quite effective and in groups like you describe more than average. It took me months to counter a talented one years back that wanted my higher position at any cost. I got lucky some women in power knew the both of us enough to find my evidence most believable. So, it's the kind of thing that can be anywhere from a situation you can talk out to a hornets nest that will light you on fire. Be careful. Id say ask more women online for advise focusing on those with stronger, personal skills. Get more opinions.
    - ozim 10y ago
      It is not about not doing anything but you have to pick your battles. It is like saving someone from car in flames. If it will blow up, you will not be able save anyone later. You can't save everyone.
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bitchypat 10y ago
Do you think it's funny that you titled the interview as you did and chose the first question to be "how conscious are you of being a female engineer as opposed to just an engineer"? I do.
- iLoch 10y ago
  I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the interviewer and assume it's supposed to be interpreted as the presumed perspective of the average programmer.
- deleted 10y ago
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- wmeredith 10y ago
  I do, too. This is a little cringey.
- cbcowans 10y ago
  Thanks for making the point. We've adjusted the language.
NTDF9 10y ago
Not trying to be sarcastic but how would the world respond if someone starts, "Ask a male engineer"?
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Try rather with: "ask a male nurse". That is more comparable, i.e.: both are perfectly normal, but both are not too common for historical and possibly other reasons.
  - NTDF9 10y ago
    But I'm not trying to 'balance' anything out. Equality means equal regardless of gender. So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". Your example is valid too. This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      > This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want? While I do care a lot I don't identify with the typical "SJW", so I think this should be perfectly OK, only very boring so I wouldn't create it.
      - NTDF9 10y ago
        Boring really? As a male who enjoys company of other males (not sexually), I have not found it boring at all. Mixed groups have definitely been socially better but I'd pick male mentoring forums any day. Boring isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of male-spaces. More like brotherhood, mentorship and competition.
        1q2w3e4r5t 10y ago
        Then start it. You're missing the point. Some people think that hearing from female engineers would benefit others. I (as a white, male, non-engineer) am one of them. That is the point of /this/. Start whatever group you want.
houselouse 10y ago
> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.
- grahamburger 10y ago
  Even if it's not misinterpreted by her, it could be misinterpreted by friends / colleagues / SO's if either of you are married or in a serious relationship. Inter-gender relationships are hard :( I'm reminded of this xkcd[0], 'Hooray! we've solved the problem of drama!' [0] https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/ EDIT: I should add a bit of context. I am self employed as a contractor, but my 'boss' at my biggest client - the one that pays the bills - is a woman who is close to my age. We are both married. I would be a little bit uncomfortable going to lunch or coffee one-on-one with her, not because I question her intentions but because I'd rather not be seen on what could be interpreted as a 'date' with someone other than my wife in my community.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    I agree that things can be misinterpreted, but that's not a reason to avoid relationships with people. It's a reason to keep things clearly communicated. And if people choose to gossip and act like high schoolers, let them. Maybe call them out on it, depending on the nature of your professional/personal relationship this can be easier said than done. But, maybe this is just me, I'm not going to forfeit my good relationships with women (several single, attractive) just because my SO is getting jealous. If she doesn't trust me, then that needs to be addressed directly. And if she can't trust me, that's a bad sign for the relationship in the long-term. If my coworkers start rumormongering because I go to lunch or coffee with a female colleague, they need to grow up. Men and women are quite capable of having professional, and personal, relationships that remain entirely platonic. And barring these sorts of professional relationships on the basis of gender means reducing the professional network of both people, which can result in long-term career setbacks. This is exactly the sort of thing that can hold women back in a male dominated field.
redDictionary 10y ago
I would like to ask a female engineer some things. 1) do you think there are more men in engineering exclusively as a result of men being prejudiced against women? 2) do you think your male co-workers are less qualified to be engineers because they were hired for their gender? 3) one of the engineers in this article said she felt uncomfortable being aware of being the only female. Can anyone explain what causes the discomfort?
- cbcowans 10y ago
  Thanks so much for asking. I'll add these to the questions that have been submitted for future posts!
  - MollyR 10y ago
    I think you need an editor with notes about HR approved behavior too, in case some given advice is less than good.
- 20years 10y ago
  My answers as a female. 1.) Not completely. This profession isn't appealing to a lot of women for many reasons outside of it being prominently male dominated. 2.) No 3.) In my early career I was always the only female on smaller male dominated teams. New male devs that came in initially automatically assumed I was administration. It only took a few days for them to realize what I did and all had total respect after. I personally think the heavy PR push towards women in code over the last couple of years has made it more uncomfortable for women in the profession. I for one don't want that kind of spotlight on me. I want to be judged for my capabilities not for my gender. I am also turned off by companies who heavily promote that they hire women/men equally. I want to be chosen because they think I am the best fit for the job not because they are trying to fill some more female seats.
  - zamalek 10y ago
    Personally I'm in agreement with the rhetoric that blames the interests that we expose our children to, this tweet[1] really sums up that whole situation (though I'm not so naive to think that this is alone to blame). Some more questions: 1. Did you have [what shouldn't be] atypical interests as a girl? 2. If yes, did other girls discriminate against you because of those interests? My thinking is that it's a compounded problem: as liberal as I might try to be with my children, their peers might disuade them from doing what they want to do (primarily because of their archaic upbringing). It's always good to re-evaluate your beliefs, so I'm genuinely interested here. Regardless, thanks for your insightful comment. [1]: https://twitter.com/mariofusco/status/772677525885640704 https://twitter.com/mariofusco/status/772677525885640704
wmeredith 10y ago
On attending a meeting as a female engineer... "I immediately figure out who is likely to hear me out based on our previous interactions. Then I’ll purposefully sit somewhere near those allies. If I’m feeling less confident when I’m speaking, I’ll look at them first. I’m less likely to even speak up in meetings where I don’t feel like I have supportive people. I don’t often feel like I’m not heard at meetings, but I think that’s because I’m careful about when I choose to speak." What does this have to do with being a female? It sounds like every meeting I've ever attended.
- bonoboTP 10y ago
  Yeah there are lots of dominance dynamics among men. But I guess we (men) are more used to it, from growing up with it since childhood.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  Because any aspect of the human condition as experienced by women, or minorities, or anyone really, is a problem unique to that sub-group. Apparently. And needs to be explicitly called out as a problem. I don't get it. I mean, as a middle-aged white guy in an affluent society with social welfare and healthcare I've never experienced anything uncomfortable, of course. Never experienced anything unpleasant.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Come on, man. How many middle-aged white guys, or white guys, or just guys, have you seen hounded out of our industry by death threats and rape threats? I despise identity politics, but I kind of think you have to be trying pretty hard not to see that there's a problem here.
    - plandis 10y ago
      I have not seen women being hounded out of the industry by rape and death threats either. I think your statement is hyperbole. I also think that TheSpiceIsLife has a point. Somewhere along the lines of championing equality it became unpopular to show empathy for males. For instance within my team we are now required to make sure that we ask everyone what their opinion is on any given matter just in case someone was too shy to speak up. I like the intent but to be honest being forced to do it kind of implies that we were not doing this previously. I'm sick of being treated like the bad guy simply for being a man. I got the same thing growing up as a poor white kid. My problems were some how not real problems because it was easier for me being white..
pcsanwald 10y ago
My wife just tried to email to offer to participate, the email bounced.
- cbcowans 10y ago
  Sorry about that! Issue should be resolved now if she'd like to retry.
benclarkwood 10y ago
It is good to see YC trying to use its platform to move this discussion forward, but I think that the title of the series is inherently troublesome. Referring to women software engineers as female software engineers is reductive and dehumanizing. Men are not usually referred to as “males”. Frankly, it sounds like a Ferenghi.
- hnbroseph 10y ago
  > Men are not usually referred to as “males”. citation needed, i guess. perhaps it's a background thing, as i've heard and used the terms "male" and "female" more frequently than "men" and "women" in my adult life. the latter set seems marginally "less serious" to me personally, though otherwise identical.
- zild3d 10y ago
  I completely disagree. "Female" and "male" are adjectives. "Women" and "men" are plural nouns. "Women software engineers" isn't even grammatically correct. [noun profession]: man painter - someone who paints a man. [adjective profession]: male painter - a man who paints.
- ewjordan 10y ago
  That's a bit of a knee-jerk, I think. Men are referred to as "male software engineers", because "men software engineers" sounds absolutely ridiculous. The asymmetry you're thinking of is when people refer to women as "females" and men as "men". That's a super offensive one, because we usually only use "female" and "male" as nouns when speaking about animals. Better, more specific words exist for humans. In the current situation, though, "female" is being used as an adjective, which is correct. The only alternative is to (ab)use "woman" as an apposite noun, which sometimes works, but can go terribly wrong as a general rule: "Ask a Man Nurse" vs. "Ask a Male Nurse" All that said, due to common usage "woman" works as an apposite in many places where "man" does not ("woman president" is fine, "man president" sounds weird). See http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/02/18/when_you_should_use_female_woman_or_lady_as_an_adjective_a_guide.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/02/18/when_yo... for more on all this.
- marxidad 10y ago
tomc1985 10y ago
The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational solutions (interviews, diversity name-and-shame, putting females in a zoo) when we really need to be attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought? It's interesting she mentions voice so much. We men need to check our emotional responses to stupid inputs like "sound of voice" or "shape of body" or whatever. These things DO NOT MATTER. All that matters is ability. Nothing else!
- zamalek 10y ago
  I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought It's a forcing function. I really think that the current plan is the most logical approach given the current situation; though, we do need to eventually move away from it. Exactly when is going to be hard to nail down; too soon and everyone will revert to their sexist ways, too late and it's ceremony - not change. In lieu of what you are saying, everyone needs to come to the table. This type of thing also needs to go away: > Ada: [...] Otherwise I get home at night and realize I haven’t heard another woman’s voice all day. I understand where she's coming from, though. As a trailblazer it might be hard when you realize that you are alone.
  - tomc1985 10y ago
    > I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought I agree, but only as long as the end result is the best candidate for the job being hired. Granting special consideration to a group is just as bad as shutting them out.
    - zamalek 10y ago
      Exactly: * It becomes impossible for women to measure their growth. "Did I earn this promotion because of my gender?" As a man I face this reality all the time and it sucks. * It becomes impossible for society to measure progress in terms of the overall moral compass. "Are people only hiring women because they are forced to?"
abz10 10y ago
Are we allowed to ask them Engineering questions?
- cbcowans 10y ago
  Of course!
- 20years 10y ago
  This x 100. Yes, please do.
crapolasplatter 10y ago
“Ask a Female Engineer” Why leave other important engineering characteristics out? Are you fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black? I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering. Nor understand the desire to get more fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white, black , male or females involved in engineering.
- crapolasplatter 10y ago
  For those that are down voting, care to expand on why? Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering: fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black?
  - hnbroseph 10y ago
    i can't downvote but: > I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering that expression is too vague to really say anything about. there exist "minority groups" in various fields (such as "male nurses"), and said groups sometimes have distinct life experiences and insights as a result, including their relationship with the "majority group". > Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering this seems non-sequitur or a strawman. the mere existence of "ask a female engineer" does not necessarily imply anything about other potential "ask a _ engineer" q&a's.
    - crapolasplatter 10y ago
      "that expression is too vague to really say anything about" The same goes for "Ask a Female Engineer" hence I wanted more information about other non engineering characteristics such as her height,weight, color, height, etc. "this seems non-sequitur or a strawman" Its not a strawman it was a valid question , why did she only decide to single out her sex. Why not disclose her weight,height,color,etc?
      - hnbroseph 10y ago
emilecantin 10y ago
> Once I was representing my company at a career fair with a male engineer. He and I were standing next to each other ready to take resumes and answer questions, but all the candidates lined up in front of him. I tried writing “SOFTWARE ENGINEER” in big letters on my name tag, but even then had to continuously tell people in line “I’m an engineer and can answer your questions too!” Having been in a few career fairs, there _is_ a tendency for females to be HR, and males to be engineers. That's kind of sad, but the only way to reverse that trend is to have more male HR reps and more female engineers, so please continue going!
damagednoob 10y ago
Are they cherry-picking the answers? I would be interested in Jean's answer to the first question.
- jean_engineer 10y ago
  Hello, I'm Jean. I didn't answer the first question because I have tele-commuted for a very long time. My entire interaction with co-workers is over email, github, slack, hangouts, etc.
  - MollyR 10y ago
    I'm thinking about having a child, and possibly telecommuting. Did you run into any issues that might have been related to gender ? I'm pretty sure I'm not planning to tell them I'm pregnant if I can avoid it.
    - jean_engineer 10y ago
      I have only tele-commuted on teams where most or all of the team also tele-commuted, often from different timezones. Some jobs there was no corporate office even if I had wanted to work in one. It would be much harder to be on a team where most of them are together in an office, able to talk face-to-face. Also tele-commuting is not a work/child-care combination. I have a separate office. When my kids were young, I always had full child care coverage, as though I wasn't there.
beardicus 10y ago
Interesting. I've been watching "Ask a Female Engineer" for years now, except they just call it "Ask an Engineer". Here's Adafruit's weekly show by that name: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7AE4BFB81D3DC925 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7AE4BFB81D3DC925
danso 10y ago
I would like to know some origin stories, e.g. "Where were you before? How did you get into engineering?" I mean, the answers to these are interesting regardless of occupation or identity.
- cbcowans 10y ago
  Thanks for posting! We've added them to our list of questions.
fatdog 10y ago
Two questions: 1. In the same job (say, sr. developer) with equivalent qualifications, what differences in approach, behavior, and performance can one attribute to someone being a man or a woman? 2. How would you recommend responding to a peer, a subordinate, or a superior who behaves in a way that reinforces negative stereotypes about their identity?
- cbcowans 10y ago
  I've taken note of your questions for our future posts. Thank you for asking!
neom 10y ago
The most mind boggling part of this whole thread is it appears that there are many people who don't know how to begin active communication with another human. What isn't being taught in schools?
- qu4z-2 10y ago
  The stereotypes about hackers having learned computers instead of (or due to a lack of) social skills aren't created entirely of whole cloth. I'm personally more surprised that there are people on Hacker News who are surprised by this (although of course it's not true for many people).
- Kenji 10y ago
  Uh, no? In schools you get taught to sit still and do your exercises. And don't you dare bother anyone or speak up. Communication is something you learn on the job and when you go out.
- qntty 10y ago
  I wish we could all get along like we could when we were young school kids. Kids fight but at least they know how to empathize with each other when they try.
user5994461 10y ago
The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title. People are who they are and go where they want. Tech is no exception. When one walks into a car garage, one doesn't make a fuss about mechanics being all men. When one walks into a kindergarden, one doesn't make a fuss about teachers being all women.
- fasdf 10y ago
  I do think that kindergarten teachers being all women is a big problem. If I have a son someday, I would want him to have some good male teachers that he can look up to from a young age. I had one in 5th grade and it really helped me.
  - ythl 10y ago
    Actually, it's becoming a pretty big problem not just for kindergartens, but for K-12 teachers in general. K-12 is completely dominated by women, while colleges and universities are split between STEM (male professors) and liberal arts (female)
    - tomjakubowski 10y ago
      Do you have a source for the gender split among STEM and liberal arts professors?
  - pyre 10y ago
    If you're a man, and say that you want to teach kids "people" will suspect you of being a pedophile.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      Yes, and not if you are a woman. Is this 'female privilege'?
      - pyre 10y ago
FT_intern 10y ago
Diversity initiatives for the tech world baffle me. The tech world is already very diverse, along lines that transcend race and gender. I am talking about national diversity. Engineering teams are composed of a huge percentage of foreign born workers who carry truly diverse experiences. The difference in experience between nationalities completely trumps the differences in experience between gender and race within the same nationality. Looking for diversity in the form of race and gender is unproductive given the current diversity in the work force. American females have a very similar experience as American males, as do African Americans and White Americans in this context. Americans regardless of race and gender are all part of the same tribe. The current diversity in the tech world have made in groups almost non-existent. No one nationality has had a large enough share of the engineering population for in groups to form and be problematic. tldr: Diversity in the form of nationality is prevalent in the tech world. National diversity creates true diversity while gender and race diversity creates insignificant diversity.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Most women engineers seem to disagree with you. The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.
  - PavlovsCat 10y ago
    Nah, they don't seem to, and it's not. Isn't intellectual debate fun? Also, what do they disagree on - that an Iraqi bombed to death is worse off than even a poor albino woman in the US? That starving to death in Africa as a male is worse than being a female engineer wherever? Technically, you just called "most female engineers" very ignorant and selfish.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. Because I have spoken to a lot of them, and read about many of their experiences. And the vast majority of them say the same thing. That they have to deal with serious problems that their male counterparts do not. And just because other people have things worse, doesn't mean that other important problems don't exist.
gjolund 10y ago
Here's my question: "Why do you feel the need to constantly bring up your gender?"
- Mz 10y ago
  "Because it is clear to me that it has caused problems in male dominated environments. I find it works better to take the bull by the horns and deal with that head on than to try to pretend I am not being treated differently when I am, in fact, being treated differently. Thank you for asking." (I am a woman, but not an engineer, fwiw.)
  - gjolund 10y ago
    I want to be treated the same as everyone else. Unless I am feeling uncomfortable, and then I want to be treated differently.
    - Mz 10y ago
      I have covered this before: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/01/oh-my-god-its-girl.html http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/01/oh-my-god-it... So I assume you don't actually know me. Because, no, that isn't my position.
      - gjolund 10y ago
        I don't know you, but I agree with what you have to say. 2) Talk to people who disagree with me (definitely applies) 3) Engage in polite public hand-slapping (I have benefited from this on occasion) I have experienced the other side of the coin. I have been in several hiring positions where I was forced to hire more female engineers out of a desire to build a diverse workforce. I have passed over qualified candidates for unqualified ones in the name of "diversity". To me that is more damaging to the perception of women in tech than anything else, and leads to environments where women in tech are viewed through an adversarial lens. To me it feels like a one-way conversation, where gender is a trump card that automatically gives one side the right of way. If it were up to me I wouldn't know a candidates gender until the first day they showed up for work.
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jasoncchild 10y ago
Cue defensive comments from male readers...
- Chinjut 10y ago
  Boy oh boy, so many. Any time a woman dares to lament how maybe her experiences in tech are colored by that minority status, Hacker News pounces en masse with little self-awareness. Not everyone on HN, of course. But, overall, threads like this are... distressing to read.
  - jasoncchild 10y ago
    Yes. This. Most of my career was in electrical engineering and electronics design. Until one month ago, after finally transitioning into a 100% software role with a 100% software shop after 15 years in tech, I work with a female engineer. 15 years, a dozen companies. One, lone female engineer. It is this experience that helps inform me to the problems of inequity in tech. It also has exposed me to many, many defensive colleagues who are all good people...but cannot divorce their own personal worth from the topic. They are hypersensitive to perceived criticisms.
  - exstudent2 10y ago
    I think there's quite a bit of self-awareness and honesty in questioning these types of initiatives. So many of these "women in tech" discussions are thiny veiled power plays to take economic and decision making power away from developers. In the past few years we've seen feminists call for Linus Torvalds' head, attacks on the _concept_ of meritocracy, codes of conduct forced down many open source project's throats, masses of women only networking and hiring events, diversity drives that favor hiring women over men, many social media witch hunts against engineers of all levels... At some point you have to step back and question the narrative that's being pushed. There is not, and never has been anything stopping women from learning to code. All you need is a computer, an internet connection and self motivation.
    - keyboardhitter 10y ago
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generic_user 10y ago
My question is why do feel people should ask you questions as 'Engineers' when you are posing anonymously with no qualifications or specific engineering credentials? This leads me to the conclusion that this project should be renamed as "Ask a Female". Clearly this is the intention no? My second question then is why do you think "Ask a Female questions" is an appropriate service for an audience that is concerned with Computing,Technology and related business ventures? This seems like rather blatant stereotyping on your part. You are making the assumption that your audience are Men that have no Woman around to ask questions. I have plenty of Woman around to ask questions without your service. And also plenty of engineers who I know the credentials of and trust there judgement whom I can ask technical questions. The thought that I would need some anonymous Woman to answer my random questions about no defined topic in particular is a little creepy.
grillvogel 10y ago
lol at all the mansplaining goobers in here. "i'm incapable of empathizing with these issues therefore they aren't real, just b urself "
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't do this here. Adding uncivil/unsubstantive comments to a difficult subject just makes things worse for everyone. Fortunately this thread attracted a wealth of substantive original contributions in addition to some of the usual predictable stuff. I've enjoyed reading many of the comments, which is... not exactly typical for such subject matter.
32wattle_park 10y ago
Hi, I got my CS degree from a university in Australia back in the early 90s. It was hard to find a job after I graduated, lots of companies prefer guys to work for them. So I had to start from a very bottom position, data entry. After a year, I managed to find a position as a junior programmer. I had the lowest salary in the team. I liked technical challenges, but hardly got any because all the interesting projects went to the male (junior mostly) programmers. Younger male programmers were more ambitious, in terms of getting somewhere. So they didn't stay in the company for long. One day, we received a job for a big government project (multi millions dollars) and there was only me, the manager and the project manager left. So I was sent to do the project with no prior experience or knowledge for this particular software. Long story short, I managed to complete the project, by myself within the time frame. I built the hardware (cards, screws, motherboard etc) by myself, installed, configured and programmed the whole thing. During the project, I was never invited to a technical meeting. I believed I was the first female in Australia to build this particular system. Then I moved to another job, with higher salary. It was hell. The bullying was obvious, even in front of the customer. It was very stressful time for me. Then I got pregnant. After 3 months, I notified my manager that I was pregnant. I was made redundant few weeks later. The whole experiences were very stressful for me. It was a brutal environment. IT industry is not kind to female staff. I did not enjoy sitting and coding for hours/days/weeks. I enjoyed building the hardware, writing code to make it work etc. The commitment to long hours also discouraging. I know a few female around my age that have CS degree and were doing IT stuff but gave it up because the environment were too toxic. Most of them gave it up after having kids or switch to other non technical job. Having lots of overseas workers coming to do the job also bringing in a different set of culture into the tech world. They provide cheap labour, but it does not mean they solve the problem of gender diversity in the long run. In fact they might contribute to the current problem. What I can see, employee would hire foreign workers (graduated in foreign countries) first instead of giving Australian female graduates the position. my2c.
- jshevek 10y ago
  > I did not enjoy sitting and coding for hours/days/weeks. I enjoyed building the hardware, writing code to make it work etc. The commitment to long hours also discouraging. Your honesty is refreshing. I also prefer a greater diversity in my activities.
janettejones 10y ago
I thought the comment about Australia was pretty random - I'm guessing this engineer is an Australian? I don't understand the context - are they saying that Australia doesn't have problems with gender bias? Because that is certainly not the case.
pg_is_a_butt 10y ago
sexism is sexist, ladies. you're all ignorant hypocrites.
jshevek 10y ago
> I’m constantly aware of being female. When a coworker looks to a junior male engineer on the team for help instead of me, a senior engineer. This sounds like it could easily be confirmation bias. There is a long list of hypothetical reasons why this might be the case, including the desire to not bother a senior person - whose time is more valuable - by pestering them with questions that a junior person could answer. If one is inclined to assume that this is a result of sexism, they are going to see imaginary sexism everywhere. > Or when someone corrects my code in a way that shows their default assumption is that I don’t know something rather than that I made a mistake. By some value systems, this would be the more generous assumption. If they were always assuming someone made a mistake (rather than simply being ignorant), one could equally well complain that this (the inverse assumption) was a result of sexism.

174 points by cbcowans 10y ago

Can you add an introductory blurb (education, current company/role) for each respondant? It's hard to tie in experiences to just a first name.

cbcowans 10y ago
We intentionally left those out and used pseudonyms so the engineers would feel comfortable answering candidly
- minimaxir 10y ago
  Ah, missed that note in the intro. That's an approach I disagree with, especially since there are many female engineers who are willing to discuss these issues openly and would benefit from the exposure from The Macro/HN.
  - cbcowans 10y ago
    Absolutely, but we feel like there’s room for more than one approach here. Part of this experiment is to see whether anonymity on both sides allows for a freer discussion. That being said, if women who join the conversation would like to use their real names we'd be glad to post those.
    - andreasklinger 10y ago
      Also those women might not want to diffuse their personal brand. Eg. I imagine it to be quite hard to be primarily known for engineering work and not for "example for female in engineering"
- wnissen 10y ago
  Love, love, love the pseudonyms chosen, by the way.
- favorited 10y ago
  Loved the choice of pseudonyms – particularly Ada and Grace!

rcba 10y ago

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women are already organising, telling stories and advocating for themselves". All views appreciated!

ozim 10y ago
Dude, politics, stay away from that. Specially if you have to ask such questions.
- rcba 10y ago
  Is this not part of the problem? How will anything get solved if we all shy away from difficult problems?
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Im not answering your main question because Im not sure I have a good one. I will address the risk. What's happening is an Us vs Them situation developing around that very issue. You might end up fighting with this group in a way that impacts your career badly. If any SJW's in there, they will passive-aggressively bait you into saying or doing something they can portray as sexist or unprofessional while appearing blameless themselves. These people are small percentage of people who take action but quite effective and in groups like you describe more than average. It took me months to counter a talented one years back that wanted my higher position at any cost. I got lucky some women in power knew the both of us enough to find my evidence most believable. So, it's the kind of thing that can be anywhere from a situation you can talk out to a hornets nest that will light you on fire. Be careful. Id say ask more women online for advise focusing on those with stronger, personal skills. Get more opinions.
  - ozim 10y ago
    It is not about not doing anything but you have to pick your battles. It is like saving someone from car in flames. If it will blow up, you will not be able save anyone later. You can't save everyone.

deleted 10y ago

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bitchypat 10y ago

Do you think it's funny that you titled the interview as you did and chose the first question to be "how conscious are you of being a female engineer as opposed to just an engineer"? I do.

iLoch 10y ago
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the interviewer and assume it's supposed to be interpreted as the presumed perspective of the average programmer.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wmeredith 10y ago
I do, too. This is a little cringey.
cbcowans 10y ago
Thanks for making the point. We've adjusted the language.

NTDF9 10y ago

Not trying to be sarcastic but how would the world respond if someone starts, "Ask a male engineer"?

reitanqild 10y ago
Try rather with: "ask a male nurse". That is more comparable, i.e.: both are perfectly normal, but both are not too common for historical and possibly other reasons.
- NTDF9 10y ago
  But I'm not trying to 'balance' anything out. Equality means equal regardless of gender. So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". Your example is valid too. This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    > This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want? While I do care a lot I don't identify with the typical "SJW", so I think this should be perfectly OK, only very boring so I wouldn't create it.
    - NTDF9 10y ago
      Boring really? As a male who enjoys company of other males (not sexually), I have not found it boring at all. Mixed groups have definitely been socially better but I'd pick male mentoring forums any day. Boring isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of male-spaces. More like brotherhood, mentorship and competition.
      - 1q2w3e4r5t 10y ago
        Then start it. You're missing the point. Some people think that hearing from female engineers would benefit others. I (as a white, male, non-engineer) am one of them. That is the point of /this/. Start whatever group you want.

houselouse 10y ago

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

grahamburger 10y ago
Even if it's not misinterpreted by her, it could be misinterpreted by friends / colleagues / SO's if either of you are married or in a serious relationship. Inter-gender relationships are hard :( I'm reminded of this xkcd[0], 'Hooray! we've solved the problem of drama!' [0] https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/ EDIT: I should add a bit of context. I am self employed as a contractor, but my 'boss' at my biggest client - the one that pays the bills - is a woman who is close to my age. We are both married. I would be a little bit uncomfortable going to lunch or coffee one-on-one with her, not because I question her intentions but because I'd rather not be seen on what could be interpreted as a 'date' with someone other than my wife in my community.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  I agree that things can be misinterpreted, but that's not a reason to avoid relationships with people. It's a reason to keep things clearly communicated. And if people choose to gossip and act like high schoolers, let them. Maybe call them out on it, depending on the nature of your professional/personal relationship this can be easier said than done. But, maybe this is just me, I'm not going to forfeit my good relationships with women (several single, attractive) just because my SO is getting jealous. If she doesn't trust me, then that needs to be addressed directly. And if she can't trust me, that's a bad sign for the relationship in the long-term. If my coworkers start rumormongering because I go to lunch or coffee with a female colleague, they need to grow up. Men and women are quite capable of having professional, and personal, relationships that remain entirely platonic. And barring these sorts of professional relationships on the basis of gender means reducing the professional network of both people, which can result in long-term career setbacks. This is exactly the sort of thing that can hold women back in a male dominated field.

redDictionary 10y ago

I would like to ask a female engineer some things. 1) do you think there are more men in engineering exclusively as a result of men being prejudiced against women? 2) do you think your male co-workers are less qualified to be engineers because they were hired for their gender? 3) one of the engineers in this article said she felt uncomfortable being aware of being the only female. Can anyone explain what causes the discomfort?

cbcowans 10y ago
Thanks so much for asking. I'll add these to the questions that have been submitted for future posts!
- MollyR 10y ago
  I think you need an editor with notes about HR approved behavior too, in case some given advice is less than good.
20years 10y ago
My answers as a female. 1.) Not completely. This profession isn't appealing to a lot of women for many reasons outside of it being prominently male dominated. 2.) No 3.) In my early career I was always the only female on smaller male dominated teams. New male devs that came in initially automatically assumed I was administration. It only took a few days for them to realize what I did and all had total respect after. I personally think the heavy PR push towards women in code over the last couple of years has made it more uncomfortable for women in the profession. I for one don't want that kind of spotlight on me. I want to be judged for my capabilities not for my gender. I am also turned off by companies who heavily promote that they hire women/men equally. I want to be chosen because they think I am the best fit for the job not because they are trying to fill some more female seats.
- zamalek 10y ago
  Personally I'm in agreement with the rhetoric that blames the interests that we expose our children to, this tweet[1] really sums up that whole situation (though I'm not so naive to think that this is alone to blame). Some more questions: 1. Did you have [what shouldn't be] atypical interests as a girl? 2. If yes, did other girls discriminate against you because of those interests? My thinking is that it's a compounded problem: as liberal as I might try to be with my children, their peers might disuade them from doing what they want to do (primarily because of their archaic upbringing). It's always good to re-evaluate your beliefs, so I'm genuinely interested here. Regardless, thanks for your insightful comment. [1]: https://twitter.com/mariofusco/status/772677525885640704 https://twitter.com/mariofusco/status/772677525885640704

wmeredith 10y ago

On attending a meeting as a female engineer... "I immediately figure out who is likely to hear me out based on our previous interactions. Then I’ll purposefully sit somewhere near those allies. If I’m feeling less confident when I’m speaking, I’ll look at them first. I’m less likely to even speak up in meetings where I don’t feel like I have supportive people. I don’t often feel like I’m not heard at meetings, but I think that’s because I’m careful about when I choose to speak." What does this have to do with being a female? It sounds like every meeting I've ever attended.

bonoboTP 10y ago
Yeah there are lots of dominance dynamics among men. But I guess we (men) are more used to it, from growing up with it since childhood.
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
Because any aspect of the human condition as experienced by women, or minorities, or anyone really, is a problem unique to that sub-group. Apparently. And needs to be explicitly called out as a problem. I don't get it. I mean, as a middle-aged white guy in an affluent society with social welfare and healthcare I've never experienced anything uncomfortable, of course. Never experienced anything unpleasant.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Come on, man. How many middle-aged white guys, or white guys, or just guys, have you seen hounded out of our industry by death threats and rape threats? I despise identity politics, but I kind of think you have to be trying pretty hard not to see that there's a problem here.
  - plandis 10y ago
    I have not seen women being hounded out of the industry by rape and death threats either. I think your statement is hyperbole. I also think that TheSpiceIsLife has a point. Somewhere along the lines of championing equality it became unpopular to show empathy for males. For instance within my team we are now required to make sure that we ask everyone what their opinion is on any given matter just in case someone was too shy to speak up. I like the intent but to be honest being forced to do it kind of implies that we were not doing this previously. I'm sick of being treated like the bad guy simply for being a man. I got the same thing growing up as a poor white kid. My problems were some how not real problems because it was easier for me being white..

pcsanwald 10y ago

My wife just tried to email to offer to participate, the email bounced.

cbcowans 10y ago
Sorry about that! Issue should be resolved now if she'd like to retry.

benclarkwood 10y ago

It is good to see YC trying to use its platform to move this discussion forward, but I think that the title of the series is inherently troublesome. Referring to women software engineers as female software engineers is reductive and dehumanizing. Men are not usually referred to as “males”. Frankly, it sounds like a Ferenghi.

hnbroseph 10y ago
> Men are not usually referred to as “males”. citation needed, i guess. perhaps it's a background thing, as i've heard and used the terms "male" and "female" more frequently than "men" and "women" in my adult life. the latter set seems marginally "less serious" to me personally, though otherwise identical.
zild3d 10y ago
I completely disagree. "Female" and "male" are adjectives. "Women" and "men" are plural nouns. "Women software engineers" isn't even grammatically correct. [noun profession]: man painter - someone who paints a man. [adjective profession]: male painter - a man who paints.
ewjordan 10y ago
That's a bit of a knee-jerk, I think. Men are referred to as "male software engineers", because "men software engineers" sounds absolutely ridiculous. The asymmetry you're thinking of is when people refer to women as "females" and men as "men". That's a super offensive one, because we usually only use "female" and "male" as nouns when speaking about animals. Better, more specific words exist for humans. In the current situation, though, "female" is being used as an adjective, which is correct. The only alternative is to (ab)use "woman" as an apposite noun, which sometimes works, but can go terribly wrong as a general rule: "Ask a Man Nurse" vs. "Ask a Male Nurse" All that said, due to common usage "woman" works as an apposite in many places where "man" does not ("woman president" is fine, "man president" sounds weird). See http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/02/18/when_you_should_use_female_woman_or_lady_as_an_adjective_a_guide.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/02/18/when_yo... for more on all this.
marxidad 10y ago

tomc1985 10y ago

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational solutions (interviews, diversity name-and-shame, putting females in a zoo) when we really need to be attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought? It's interesting she mentions voice so much. We men need to check our emotional responses to stupid inputs like "sound of voice" or "shape of body" or whatever. These things DO NOT MATTER. All that matters is ability. Nothing else!

zamalek 10y ago
I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought It's a forcing function. I really think that the current plan is the most logical approach given the current situation; though, we do need to eventually move away from it. Exactly when is going to be hard to nail down; too soon and everyone will revert to their sexist ways, too late and it's ceremony - not change. In lieu of what you are saying, everyone needs to come to the table. This type of thing also needs to go away: > Ada: [...] Otherwise I get home at night and realize I haven’t heard another woman’s voice all day. I understand where she's coming from, though. As a trailblazer it might be hard when you realize that you are alone.
- tomc1985 10y ago
  > I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought I agree, but only as long as the end result is the best candidate for the job being hired. Granting special consideration to a group is just as bad as shutting them out.
  - zamalek 10y ago
    Exactly: * It becomes impossible for women to measure their growth. "Did I earn this promotion because of my gender?" As a man I face this reality all the time and it sucks. * It becomes impossible for society to measure progress in terms of the overall moral compass. "Are people only hiring women because they are forced to?"

abz10 10y ago

Are we allowed to ask them Engineering questions?

cbcowans 10y ago
Of course!
20years 10y ago
This x 100. Yes, please do.

crapolasplatter 10y ago

“Ask a Female Engineer” Why leave other important engineering characteristics out? Are you fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black? I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering. Nor understand the desire to get more fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white, black , male or females involved in engineering.

crapolasplatter 10y ago
For those that are down voting, care to expand on why? Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering: fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black?
- hnbroseph 10y ago
  i can't downvote but: > I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering that expression is too vague to really say anything about. there exist "minority groups" in various fields (such as "male nurses"), and said groups sometimes have distinct life experiences and insights as a result, including their relationship with the "majority group". > Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering this seems non-sequitur or a strawman. the mere existence of "ask a female engineer" does not necessarily imply anything about other potential "ask a _ engineer" q&a's.
  - crapolasplatter 10y ago
    "that expression is too vague to really say anything about" The same goes for "Ask a Female Engineer" hence I wanted more information about other non engineering characteristics such as her height,weight, color, height, etc. "this seems non-sequitur or a strawman" Its not a strawman it was a valid question , why did she only decide to single out her sex. Why not disclose her weight,height,color,etc?
    - hnbroseph 10y ago

emilecantin 10y ago

> Once I was representing my company at a career fair with a male engineer. He and I were standing next to each other ready to take resumes and answer questions, but all the candidates lined up in front of him. I tried writing “SOFTWARE ENGINEER” in big letters on my name tag, but even then had to continuously tell people in line “I’m an engineer and can answer your questions too!” Having been in a few career fairs, there _is_ a tendency for females to be HR, and males to be engineers. That's kind of sad, but the only way to reverse that trend is to have more male HR reps and more female engineers, so please continue going!

damagednoob 10y ago

Are they cherry-picking the answers? I would be interested in Jean's answer to the first question.

jean_engineer 10y ago
Hello, I'm Jean. I didn't answer the first question because I have tele-commuted for a very long time. My entire interaction with co-workers is over email, github, slack, hangouts, etc.
- MollyR 10y ago
  I'm thinking about having a child, and possibly telecommuting. Did you run into any issues that might have been related to gender ? I'm pretty sure I'm not planning to tell them I'm pregnant if I can avoid it.
  - jean_engineer 10y ago
    I have only tele-commuted on teams where most or all of the team also tele-commuted, often from different timezones. Some jobs there was no corporate office even if I had wanted to work in one. It would be much harder to be on a team where most of them are together in an office, able to talk face-to-face. Also tele-commuting is not a work/child-care combination. I have a separate office. When my kids were young, I always had full child care coverage, as though I wasn't there.

beardicus 10y ago

Interesting. I've been watching "Ask a Female Engineer" for years now, except they just call it "Ask an Engineer". Here's Adafruit's weekly show by that name: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7AE4BFB81D3DC925 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7AE4BFB81D3DC925

danso 10y ago

I would like to know some origin stories, e.g. "Where were you before? How did you get into engineering?" I mean, the answers to these are interesting regardless of occupation or identity.

cbcowans 10y ago
Thanks for posting! We've added them to our list of questions.

fatdog 10y ago

Two questions: 1. In the same job (say, sr. developer) with equivalent qualifications, what differences in approach, behavior, and performance can one attribute to someone being a man or a woman? 2. How would you recommend responding to a peer, a subordinate, or a superior who behaves in a way that reinforces negative stereotypes about their identity?

cbcowans 10y ago
I've taken note of your questions for our future posts. Thank you for asking!

neom 10y ago

The most mind boggling part of this whole thread is it appears that there are many people who don't know how to begin active communication with another human. What isn't being taught in schools?

qu4z-2 10y ago
The stereotypes about hackers having learned computers instead of (or due to a lack of) social skills aren't created entirely of whole cloth. I'm personally more surprised that there are people on Hacker News who are surprised by this (although of course it's not true for many people).
Kenji 10y ago
Uh, no? In schools you get taught to sit still and do your exercises. And don't you dare bother anyone or speak up. Communication is something you learn on the job and when you go out.
qntty 10y ago
I wish we could all get along like we could when we were young school kids. Kids fight but at least they know how to empathize with each other when they try.

user5994461 10y ago

The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title. People are who they are and go where they want. Tech is no exception. When one walks into a car garage, one doesn't make a fuss about mechanics being all men. When one walks into a kindergarden, one doesn't make a fuss about teachers being all women.

fasdf 10y ago
I do think that kindergarten teachers being all women is a big problem. If I have a son someday, I would want him to have some good male teachers that he can look up to from a young age. I had one in 5th grade and it really helped me.
- ythl 10y ago
  Actually, it's becoming a pretty big problem not just for kindergartens, but for K-12 teachers in general. K-12 is completely dominated by women, while colleges and universities are split between STEM (male professors) and liberal arts (female)
  - tomjakubowski 10y ago
    Do you have a source for the gender split among STEM and liberal arts professors?
- pyre 10y ago
  If you're a man, and say that you want to teach kids "people" will suspect you of being a pedophile.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    Yes, and not if you are a woman. Is this 'female privilege'?
    - pyre 10y ago

FT_intern 10y ago

Diversity initiatives for the tech world baffle me. The tech world is already very diverse, along lines that transcend race and gender. I am talking about national diversity. Engineering teams are composed of a huge percentage of foreign born workers who carry truly diverse experiences. The difference in experience between nationalities completely trumps the differences in experience between gender and race within the same nationality. Looking for diversity in the form of race and gender is unproductive given the current diversity in the work force. American females have a very similar experience as American males, as do African Americans and White Americans in this context. Americans regardless of race and gender are all part of the same tribe. The current diversity in the tech world have made in groups almost non-existent. No one nationality has had a large enough share of the engineering population for in groups to form and be problematic. tldr: Diversity in the form of nationality is prevalent in the tech world. National diversity creates true diversity while gender and race diversity creates insignificant diversity.

stale2002 10y ago
Most women engineers seem to disagree with you. The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.
- PavlovsCat 10y ago
  Nah, they don't seem to, and it's not. Isn't intellectual debate fun? Also, what do they disagree on - that an Iraqi bombed to death is worse off than even a poor albino woman in the US? That starving to death in Africa as a male is worse than being a female engineer wherever? Technically, you just called "most female engineers" very ignorant and selfish.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. Because I have spoken to a lot of them, and read about many of their experiences. And the vast majority of them say the same thing. That they have to deal with serious problems that their male counterparts do not. And just because other people have things worse, doesn't mean that other important problems don't exist.

gjolund 10y ago

Here's my question: "Why do you feel the need to constantly bring up your gender?"

Mz 10y ago
"Because it is clear to me that it has caused problems in male dominated environments. I find it works better to take the bull by the horns and deal with that head on than to try to pretend I am not being treated differently when I am, in fact, being treated differently. Thank you for asking." (I am a woman, but not an engineer, fwiw.)
- gjolund 10y ago
  I want to be treated the same as everyone else. Unless I am feeling uncomfortable, and then I want to be treated differently.
  - Mz 10y ago
    I have covered this before: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/01/oh-my-god-its-girl.html http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/01/oh-my-god-it... So I assume you don't actually know me. Because, no, that isn't my position.
    - gjolund 10y ago
      I don't know you, but I agree with what you have to say. 2) Talk to people who disagree with me (definitely applies) 3) Engage in polite public hand-slapping (I have benefited from this on occasion) I have experienced the other side of the coin. I have been in several hiring positions where I was forced to hire more female engineers out of a desire to build a diverse workforce. I have passed over qualified candidates for unqualified ones in the name of "diversity". To me that is more damaging to the perception of women in tech than anything else, and leads to environments where women in tech are viewed through an adversarial lens. To me it feels like a one-way conversation, where gender is a trump card that automatically gives one side the right of way. If it were up to me I wouldn't know a candidates gender until the first day they showed up for work.

deleted 10y ago

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jasoncchild 10y ago

Cue defensive comments from male readers...

Chinjut 10y ago
Boy oh boy, so many. Any time a woman dares to lament how maybe her experiences in tech are colored by that minority status, Hacker News pounces en masse with little self-awareness. Not everyone on HN, of course. But, overall, threads like this are... distressing to read.
- jasoncchild 10y ago
  Yes. This. Most of my career was in electrical engineering and electronics design. Until one month ago, after finally transitioning into a 100% software role with a 100% software shop after 15 years in tech, I work with a female engineer. 15 years, a dozen companies. One, lone female engineer. It is this experience that helps inform me to the problems of inequity in tech. It also has exposed me to many, many defensive colleagues who are all good people...but cannot divorce their own personal worth from the topic. They are hypersensitive to perceived criticisms.
- exstudent2 10y ago
  I think there's quite a bit of self-awareness and honesty in questioning these types of initiatives. So many of these "women in tech" discussions are thiny veiled power plays to take economic and decision making power away from developers. In the past few years we've seen feminists call for Linus Torvalds' head, attacks on the _concept_ of meritocracy, codes of conduct forced down many open source project's throats, masses of women only networking and hiring events, diversity drives that favor hiring women over men, many social media witch hunts against engineers of all levels... At some point you have to step back and question the narrative that's being pushed. There is not, and never has been anything stopping women from learning to code. All you need is a computer, an internet connection and self motivation.
  - keyboardhitter 10y ago

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generic_user 10y ago

My question is why do feel people should ask you questions as 'Engineers' when you are posing anonymously with no qualifications or specific engineering credentials? This leads me to the conclusion that this project should be renamed as "Ask a Female". Clearly this is the intention no? My second question then is why do you think "Ask a Female questions" is an appropriate service for an audience that is concerned with Computing,Technology and related business ventures? This seems like rather blatant stereotyping on your part. You are making the assumption that your audience are Men that have no Woman around to ask questions. I have plenty of Woman around to ask questions without your service. And also plenty of engineers who I know the credentials of and trust there judgement whom I can ask technical questions. The thought that I would need some anonymous Woman to answer my random questions about no defined topic in particular is a little creepy.

grillvogel 10y ago

lol at all the mansplaining goobers in here. "i'm incapable of empathizing with these issues therefore they aren't real, just b urself "

dang 10y ago
Please don't do this here. Adding uncivil/unsubstantive comments to a difficult subject just makes things worse for everyone. Fortunately this thread attracted a wealth of substantive original contributions in addition to some of the usual predictable stuff. I've enjoyed reading many of the comments, which is... not exactly typical for such subject matter.

32wattle_park 10y ago

Hi, I got my CS degree from a university in Australia back in the early 90s. It was hard to find a job after I graduated, lots of companies prefer guys to work for them. So I had to start from a very bottom position, data entry. After a year, I managed to find a position as a junior programmer. I had the lowest salary in the team. I liked technical challenges, but hardly got any because all the interesting projects went to the male (junior mostly) programmers. Younger male programmers were more ambitious, in terms of getting somewhere. So they didn't stay in the company for long. One day, we received a job for a big government project (multi millions dollars) and there was only me, the manager and the project manager left. So I was sent to do the project with no prior experience or knowledge for this particular software. Long story short, I managed to complete the project, by myself within the time frame. I built the hardware (cards, screws, motherboard etc) by myself, installed, configured and programmed the whole thing. During the project, I was never invited to a technical meeting. I believed I was the first female in Australia to build this particular system. Then I moved to another job, with higher salary. It was hell. The bullying was obvious, even in front of the customer. It was very stressful time for me. Then I got pregnant. After 3 months, I notified my manager that I was pregnant. I was made redundant few weeks later. The whole experiences were very stressful for me. It was a brutal environment. IT industry is not kind to female staff. I did not enjoy sitting and coding for hours/days/weeks. I enjoyed building the hardware, writing code to make it work etc. The commitment to long hours also discouraging. I know a few female around my age that have CS degree and were doing IT stuff but gave it up because the environment were too toxic. Most of them gave it up after having kids or switch to other non technical job. Having lots of overseas workers coming to do the job also bringing in a different set of culture into the tech world. They provide cheap labour, but it does not mean they solve the problem of gender diversity in the long run. In fact they might contribute to the current problem. What I can see, employee would hire foreign workers (graduated in foreign countries) first instead of giving Australian female graduates the position. my2c.

jshevek 10y ago
> I did not enjoy sitting and coding for hours/days/weeks. I enjoyed building the hardware, writing code to make it work etc. The commitment to long hours also discouraging. Your honesty is refreshing. I also prefer a greater diversity in my activities.

janettejones 10y ago

I thought the comment about Australia was pretty random - I'm guessing this engineer is an Australian? I don't understand the context - are they saying that Australia doesn't have problems with gender bias? Because that is certainly not the case.

pg_is_a_butt 10y ago

sexism is sexist, ladies. you're all ignorant hypocrites.

jshevek 10y ago

> I’m constantly aware of being female. When a coworker looks to a junior male engineer on the team for help instead of me, a senior engineer. This sounds like it could easily be confirmation bias. There is a long list of hypothetical reasons why this might be the case, including the desire to not bother a senior person - whose time is more valuable - by pestering them with questions that a junior person could answer. If one is inclined to assume that this is a result of sexism, they are going to see imaginary sexism everywhere. > Or when someone corrects my code in a way that shows their default assumption is that I don’t know something rather than that I made a mistake. By some value systems, this would be the more generous assumption. If they were always assuming someone made a mistake (rather than simply being ignorant), one could equally well complain that this (the inverse assumption) was a result of sexism.