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I understand the argument that forcing content through a proprietary jack opens the door for controlling said content and has huge implications for hardware man

I understand the argument that forcing content through a proprietary jack opens the door for controlling said content and has huge implications for hardware manufacturers and the way people use their stuff. What I am having a hard time understanding is why is that any different than the OS influencing what gets sent to the 3.5mm jack? It isn't like apps running in iOS had to interact with APIs to do all the other things (e.g. camera) but not the jack. Is it?

kabdib 10y ago
Exactly; Apple has always controlled what can be sent to the DAC on the audio jack. (I don't know if it has a dedicated DAC, but even if it shares with the speaker, the device knows when something is plugged into the jack). How secure are these dongles? Will we see third party ones, or do you need key material from Apple before they will light up? The Xbox is full of this kind of thing, btw (most peripherals require a "security chip" that just needs to handshake; purely revenue protection, and nothing to do with security).
- frandroid 10y ago
  You mean, purely "revenue security".
  - kabdib 10y ago
    Exactly.
onli 10y ago
My understanding is that it is about what is the output. The 3.5mm jack outputs the regular audio data. You could just make it output encrypted data, but that is the same as removing it, all the headphones won't work. If you replace it with a proprietary system you can add in DRM, like not outputting anything if the connected device (which can be an adapter) is not certified. Everything has to get transformed into regular data at one point, but the content mafia is trying since many years to control as many parts of the system as possible. This is one further step. I could be a bit off the mark here, not my area.
- cr1895 10y ago
  >The 3.5mm jack outputs the regular audio data. You could just make it output encrypted data, but that is the same as removing it, all the headphones won't work. The 3.5mm jack outputs an analog signal. It's already been converted from digital data to an analog signal by the phone's DAC chip.
  - em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
    but hypothetically you could send a digital encrypted signal over the audio 3.5mm jack, provided that the receiving device has an ADC and can decrypt.
    - cr1895 10y ago
      So D > A > Encr. A > D > A > Ear? In practice that sounds ridiculous.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        There are a lot of ridiculous things going on every day in many areas of life that are there just because someone wants to make a buck.
      - marcosdumay 10y ago
        All of DRM sounds (and actually is) ridiculous.
sigmar 10y ago
>why is that any different than the OS influencing what gets sent to the 3.5mm jack? Their issue seems to be that it is not analog. The lightening port and bluetooth connection are two-way data connections, and the phone will be able to identify what is attached (rather than just outputing an analog signal). Here's the quotes that make that clear- > But intentionally or not, by removing the analog port, Apple is giving itself more control than ever over what people can do with music or other audio content on an iPhone. >With Bluetooth, the phone can distinguish between different types of devices and treat them differently. Apple can choose which manufacturers get to create Lightning-compatible audio devices.
- dazmax 10y ago
  But if a manufacturer wanted to only play audio to their device, they could have already made it a lightning-connected device. If they do give the ability to distinguish the lightning-to-3.5mm adapter from other lightning headphones, that isn't any greater than the ability to distinguish between the 3.5mm jack and the lightning port is it?
  - 0x0 10y ago
    It's all about defaults and out-of-the-box experience.
  - Thrillington 10y ago
    The issue not likely to arise with hardware manufacturers. However, content license holders have been eager to have powers to restrict playback based on the device that will be playing back, see region encoded disks and HDMI.
- mxfh 10y ago
  So exclusive releases for specific hardware IDs are feasible. A not so far fetched Scenario extending on the exclusive iTunes release practice: Popular new Artist - New Album: Listen before everyone else exclusively on beats
  - 10y ago
wfo 10y ago
Apple has been very good at predicting (or perhaps directly causing) the demise of certain technologies: the disk drive, the CD drive, the ethernet port. They removed them much to the chagrin of many a loyal customer, and a few years later they nearly ceased to exist across the entire industry (we're still waiting on the ethernet port to go away but give it time). How many times will it take you forgetting your dongle to just pony up and buy the apple approved headphones? How long will it take you using the non-default, non-apple, non-sleek, clunky dongle as you show off your fancy new iPhone 7 to your friends before you decide it's got to go? What if they're using it the apple-intended way? How long will it take before nobody buys headphones anymore? A few generations until they deprecate the dongle since nobody is using it? Where you can no longer buy a $10 set of headphones at a drugstore and plug them in? Where 'every audio device must provide analog audio output in a universal format that every device has been able to read since audio was invented or it is functionally useless' is no longer a maxim? Long-term, we are giving up a universal and open protocol that all devices work with for a proprietary one. If you don't expect companies to abuse this to make money and to stop you from doing what you want with your equipment, well, I've got a bridge to sell you.
- stinkytaco 10y ago
  Floppy disks, optical disks, ethernet were all replaced by unencumbered standards and they all lead to a superior experience (well, maybe not ethernet, but there are definitly advantages to wireless). If you're old enough to have used a floppy disk drive you do not miss them. Any time you introduce two way communication, you introduce the possibility of DRM, but that does not guarantee it. I can still use my HDMI with my linux PC. DRM is exclusive of the technology and I see no reason to hold back the technology because we are worried about DRM. There are lots of compelling reasons to dislike this change. Among them the fact that I have a large investment in traditional headphones and devices that work well with them (my iPod, my HTC Phone, my stereo, TV, piano, guitar amp, etc etc etc), a decrease in quality, convenience and weight of wireless headsets (how long do they work? How much do they weigh? Can I swim or workout with them?). But DRM is not automatic.
  - dTal 10y ago
acagle 10y ago
Apple products have always been built with a Walled Garden approach, so nothing new here. The same ios software/hardware combo has always been fully controlled by Apple.
domador 10y ago
I'd think that the OS is irreparably "blind" to devices connected to the 3.5mm jack, unable to identify them, and unable to discriminate among them, unable to send audio output to some of them, and not to others. A proprietary audio standard might include a way to identify devices (since manufacturers would likely have to use some kind of ID in the devices they make with Apple's blessing).

kabdib 10y ago

Exactly; Apple has always controlled what can be sent to the DAC on the audio jack. (I don't know if it has a dedicated DAC, but even if it shares with the speaker, the device knows when something is plugged into the jack). How secure are these dongles? Will we see third party ones, or do you need key material from Apple before they will light up? The Xbox is full of this kind of thing, btw (most peripherals require a "security chip" that just needs to handshake; purely revenue protection, and nothing to do with security).

frandroid 10y ago
You mean, purely "revenue security".
- kabdib 10y ago
  Exactly.

onli 10y ago

My understanding is that it is about what is the output. The 3.5mm jack outputs the regular audio data. You could just make it output encrypted data, but that is the same as removing it, all the headphones won't work. If you replace it with a proprietary system you can add in DRM, like not outputting anything if the connected device (which can be an adapter) is not certified. Everything has to get transformed into regular data at one point, but the content mafia is trying since many years to control as many parts of the system as possible. This is one further step. I could be a bit off the mark here, not my area.

cr1895 10y ago
>The 3.5mm jack outputs the regular audio data. You could just make it output encrypted data, but that is the same as removing it, all the headphones won't work. The 3.5mm jack outputs an analog signal. It's already been converted from digital data to an analog signal by the phone's DAC chip.
- em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
  but hypothetically you could send a digital encrypted signal over the audio 3.5mm jack, provided that the receiving device has an ADC and can decrypt.
  - cr1895 10y ago
    So D > A > Encr. A > D > A > Ear? In practice that sounds ridiculous.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      There are a lot of ridiculous things going on every day in many areas of life that are there just because someone wants to make a buck.
    - marcosdumay 10y ago
      All of DRM sounds (and actually is) ridiculous.

sigmar 10y ago

>why is that any different than the OS influencing what gets sent to the 3.5mm jack? Their issue seems to be that it is not analog. The lightening port and bluetooth connection are two-way data connections, and the phone will be able to identify what is attached (rather than just outputing an analog signal). Here's the quotes that make that clear- > But intentionally or not, by removing the analog port, Apple is giving itself more control than ever over what people can do with music or other audio content on an iPhone. >With Bluetooth, the phone can distinguish between different types of devices and treat them differently. Apple can choose which manufacturers get to create Lightning-compatible audio devices.

dazmax 10y ago
But if a manufacturer wanted to only play audio to their device, they could have already made it a lightning-connected device. If they do give the ability to distinguish the lightning-to-3.5mm adapter from other lightning headphones, that isn't any greater than the ability to distinguish between the 3.5mm jack and the lightning port is it?
- 0x0 10y ago
  It's all about defaults and out-of-the-box experience.
- Thrillington 10y ago
  The issue not likely to arise with hardware manufacturers. However, content license holders have been eager to have powers to restrict playback based on the device that will be playing back, see region encoded disks and HDMI.
mxfh 10y ago
So exclusive releases for specific hardware IDs are feasible. A not so far fetched Scenario extending on the exclusive iTunes release practice: Popular new Artist - New Album: Listen before everyone else exclusively on beats
- 10y ago

wfo 10y ago

Apple has been very good at predicting (or perhaps directly causing) the demise of certain technologies: the disk drive, the CD drive, the ethernet port. They removed them much to the chagrin of many a loyal customer, and a few years later they nearly ceased to exist across the entire industry (we're still waiting on the ethernet port to go away but give it time). How many times will it take you forgetting your dongle to just pony up and buy the apple approved headphones? How long will it take you using the non-default, non-apple, non-sleek, clunky dongle as you show off your fancy new iPhone 7 to your friends before you decide it's got to go? What if they're using it the apple-intended way? How long will it take before nobody buys headphones anymore? A few generations until they deprecate the dongle since nobody is using it? Where you can no longer buy a $10 set of headphones at a drugstore and plug them in? Where 'every audio device must provide analog audio output in a universal format that every device has been able to read since audio was invented or it is functionally useless' is no longer a maxim? Long-term, we are giving up a universal and open protocol that all devices work with for a proprietary one. If you don't expect companies to abuse this to make money and to stop you from doing what you want with your equipment, well, I've got a bridge to sell you.

stinkytaco 10y ago
Floppy disks, optical disks, ethernet were all replaced by unencumbered standards and they all lead to a superior experience (well, maybe not ethernet, but there are definitly advantages to wireless). If you're old enough to have used a floppy disk drive you do not miss them. Any time you introduce two way communication, you introduce the possibility of DRM, but that does not guarantee it. I can still use my HDMI with my linux PC. DRM is exclusive of the technology and I see no reason to hold back the technology because we are worried about DRM. There are lots of compelling reasons to dislike this change. Among them the fact that I have a large investment in traditional headphones and devices that work well with them (my iPod, my HTC Phone, my stereo, TV, piano, guitar amp, etc etc etc), a decrease in quality, convenience and weight of wireless headsets (how long do they work? How much do they weigh? Can I swim or workout with them?). But DRM is not automatic.
- dTal 10y ago

acagle 10y ago

Apple products have always been built with a Walled Garden approach, so nothing new here. The same ios software/hardware combo has always been fully controlled by Apple.

domador 10y ago

I'd think that the OS is irreparably "blind" to devices connected to the 3.5mm jack, unable to identify them, and unable to discriminate among them, unable to send audio output to some of them, and not to others. A proprietary audio standard might include a way to identify devices (since manufacturers would likely have to use some kind of ID in the devices they make with Apple's blessing).