14 ms·

Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

199 points by rhubarbcustard 10y ago

wodenokoto 10y ago
Do they literally mean zero intake of calories for 72 hours? That sounds like a long time. How do you prepare for that nutrition wise and mentally? People eat at night during the ramadan.
- majewsky 10y ago
  I suppose not, but the lack of specification which method of fasting was used is the most glaring omission in this piece.
  - xarope 10y ago
    see my comment above: "In this study, the mice were allowed to drink water, but no food was allowed"
    - majewsky 10y ago
      Thanks for taking the time to drill into the study. It's just disappointing that the journalists apparently didn't have the time (or didn't consider it relevant).
- MrLeftHand 10y ago
  Probably there is some minimum, because when you drink just regular water that has some calories as well. And not drinking for a day might be he worst dietary idea ever. UPDATE: Water doesn't contain calories. Sorry for the misinformation. My mouth (actually my hands) was faster then my brain. :-)
  - majewsky 10y ago
    If regular water has calories in it, then I would not be willing to drink it. ;)
  - kseistrup 10y ago
    Please explain where the calories in plain water come from.
    - dottedmag 10y ago
      According to mass-energy equivalence, every gram of water contains ~2.15*10^13 calories.
      - macalicious 10y ago
        I think you're missing an algebraic sign there.
      - nnq 10y ago
        So where can I sign up for having my stomach replaced with a matter-antimater reactor or whatever it is this gadget that actually gives me access to this energy?
      - collyw 10y ago
        I assume you are talking on the physics e=mc^2 type level rather than an energy store that can be metabolized by your body.
- codedinosaur 10y ago
  About 3 years ago, I undertook a water fast that lasted about 17 days. It does take a lot of mental preparation. Nutrition wise, I ate only fruits for about a week before the fast. The first few days were very hard, but then I simply did not feel hunger at all. I intended to continue the fast for 30 days. But from about the 4th day onwards my mouth started having an awful odour and my tongue had a thick white coating that was the source. Into the third week, I simply couldn't bear that smell anymore and gave up. for getting back to regular food, I did the same thing and had only juices and fruits for about 3-4 days. Now, I'm not an expert, but I read while preparing for the water fast that your body has nutrients it needs to survive for a few weeks. I didn't take any supplements during that time. Unfortunately, at that time i didn't have the means to measure and quantify what changed after the fast. I do remember being in a great mood for a few days after the fast. I don't know how much it benefited me, but it was an interesting exercise
  - xarope 10y ago
    That odour is probably the ketones coming into play when the body starts using fat for energy, instead of carbs or protein. And yes, it's a well known fact.
    - dualogy 10y ago
      For 3 weeks straight would be unusual though and not explain the commonly occurring tongue coating.
      - AstralStorm 10y ago
        Sounds more like lack of immunity and candidosis.
  - chongli 10y ago
    You still have to brush your teeth when fasting. Scrape all that plaque biofilm off your tongue. Plaque bacteria feed on all sorts of nutrients in your mouth and in your saliva, not just food residue.
- xarope 10y ago
  Thanks to blue1 who found the original paper (http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%2900151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%...), I found this in the comments section: "In this study, the mice were allowed to drink water, but no food was allowed. In general, when limited food & water are allowed, the protocol is referred to as a "fasting-mimicking diet"" So no food, but water was allowed. Just remember the context: the mice were subjected to chemotherapy schedules... so it's not like "hey take healthy mice, fast them and see them get healthy", but more like "hey take healthy mice, fast them, subject them to chemotherapy, and look... their immune system responds better than if we allowed them to eat pre-chemo" (apologies if I summarised this wrong)
  - davidwparker 10y ago
    That paper isn't the original- it's a followup. The original is a strict fast (water only) for 72 hours. The FMD (Fasting Mimic Diet) is for 120 hours (5 days) and has more food allowed: "The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate)."
    - AstralStorm 10y ago
      Wow, that's lower than what many calorie restriction experimenters run!
      - davidwparker 10y ago
        Yeah, it's supposed to "Mimic" a fast. Supposedly it's easier to do than the 3-day water only fast, since you're getting some sustenance, but I haven't tried it.
- musha68k 10y ago
  If you have regularly eaten well for some time before (i.e. no junk food but real food) you probably (?) have a sufficient store of nutrients to keep your system running for 72 hours. The important question to me: Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast?
  - forgetsusername 10y ago
    >Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast? I don't think so, but I'm not professional. The caloric content of black coffee is negligible.
  - ux-app 10y ago
    > Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast? I curious about this and the effect of zero calorie soft drinks.
  - leonroy 10y ago
    As a coffee addict and someone who fasts I keep looking into this. Strictly speaking a fast is supposed to allow a period of detox for the body so coffee isn't really a good idea. That said it doesn't break your fast since it has a trace calorie content (provided no milk and sugar). After all some proponents of fasting recommend water with lemons or apple cider vinegar (for killing bio films/candida effects). I can't imagine coffee would be that different to lemon water calorie wise. Pros and cons - if no coffee makes your fast unbearable have some (I always do), but ideally you're looking to consume only water.
- hyperdunc 10y ago
  It's not that hard. If you're going to do three days you might as well do a little longer. It takes around three days to switch to ketosis, after which hunger disappears. I did a week with just a sense of determination and knowledge of what to expect, and my relationship with food improved immensely.
  - mobiuscog 10y ago
    It's even easier if you eat a ketogenic diet already.
- pmoriarty 10y ago
  There is a lot of evidence that the human body can survive for much, much longer than 72 hours without food: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-can-a-person-sur/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-can-a-per... http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17095605 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17095605 The first article mentions someone going for 73 days without food, the second 66 days, and many others for shorter periods (but still on the order of multiple tens of days). Some examples: "In the 1940s, Mahatma Gandhi survived 21 days on sips of water during a display of civil disobedience." "Dr Mike Stroud, senior lecturer of Medicine and Nutrition at Southampton University ... who accompanied veteran British adventurer Sir Ranulph Fiennes across the Antarctic, said it was possible to survive 60 days without food." "In 1981, Republican prisoner Bobby Sands died in Northern Ireland's Maze prison after a hunger strike lasting 66 days." Of course many factors may influence how long you can go without food, such as the amount of physical activity you engage in. If you're running marathons every day, you're naturally not going to be able to go without food as long as someone who's immobile the whole time, etc.
  - yuja_wang 10y ago
    Fat people can fast for a year with few problems. Here's a write up from the NIH. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/post... Overeating is a psychological disorder. Few Americans would have any ill effects not eating for a few days -- especially the 66% of Americans who are obese or overweight.
FuNe 10y ago
> When you starve, the system tries to save energy, and one of the things it can do to save energy is to recycle a lot of the immune cells that are not needed, especially those that may be damaged That's remarkable news. I'm waiting to see the counter-arguments though. Fasting for 3 days seems like stretching the limits a bit. Also it seems to imply that these 3days periods are repeatable over the course of a few months.
- hyperdunc 10y ago
  It is indeed a fascinating discovery. BTW, fasting for more than three days sounds crazy but can be surprisingly easy.
blue1 10y ago
The original paper: http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%2900151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%...
- elabftw 10y ago
  THANK YOU!
kseistrup 10y ago
Although I haven't attempted this myself, I have seen many people attempt to endure a 72 hours fast (as part of diagnosing a potential pheochromocytoma) and the majority experience this as extremely difficult. I wonder if multiple shorter fasts — e.g., a 24 hours fast once a week — could be as beneficial.
- snowpanda 10y ago
  I have fasted for approximately a week on 4 different occasions and interestingly enough the 72 hours that you mentioned are indeed the hardest. For me personally it started getting easier at that specific 72 hour mark. In regards to the multiple 24 hours fast I was wondering the same thing reading this article. Although I think it might not work because of the white blood cells regenerating.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    I don't think that's fasting any more, sounds more like starvation, to me.
    - hyperdunc 10y ago
      No, hunger disappears around day 3, then returns with a vengeance shortly before death, which can be up to 3 months later. This second burst of hunger is actual starvation.
- dazzawazza 10y ago
  I regularly fast for 20+ hours (calorie restriction, I do drink water because I am not an idiot) once or twice a week. You get very used to it. While its not something I look forward to, it's purely psychological. A few hours after I miss 'breakfast' my tummy rumbles two or three times and then my body doesn't care anymore. The max time I've fasted is forty hours and I have to say if you can get past the first fours hours, it's easy. I didn't really plan to fast that long, circumstances led to it. I actually found it hard to eat after it. I normally eat a very small 500-600 calorie meal after a fast but I couldn't finish it after the long fast. I think we underestimate how adaptable our body is and how intermittent fasting is actually the norm for most mammals.
mabcat 10y ago
Tim Ferriss has poked at the positive effects of intermittent fasting on cancer/health/longevity a bit. I found this interview with Dominic D'Agostino very informative: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/ Also: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/03/02/postponing-death-caloric-restriction-vs-intermittent-fasting-part-1/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/03/02/postponing-death-calo...
- sogen 10y ago
  Sounds good, how old is he? 80? 90?
- cableshaft 10y ago
  What he argues makes some sense, but his total dismissal of IF paired with low-carb seemed counter-productive. "The one question that remains unanswered is whether or not the intermittent fast followed in a low-carbohydrate way will lead to these same problems. To me, that point is kind of moot. Why? Because I looked at the IF as a strategy that allowed me to eat a lot of high carb foods that I would normally avoid and not pay the health consequences for it. If I’m going to limit myself to low-carb foods, why go on the IF? I can get the same results just following a regular, whole-food, low-carb diet without having to eat only every other day." Okay, so you only care about IF if it lets you indulge in high-carbohydrate food, so you aren't even going to try to determine if your thermogenesis argument holds for people doing both IF and low carb? Considering I'm currently doing a low-carb diet and using mild IF (basically skipping breakfasts and not eating after ~8pm, so roughly 14-16 hours fasting most days) to try to break my weight plateaus and meet my weight loss goals, that paragraph, while valid (and I'm glad he shared it), rubbed me the wrong way and doesn't give me any information to help me determine whether I should be skipping that meal or not.
  - jwdunne 10y ago
    I was reading a blog post by Dr Jason Fung that compared LCHF with IF. Conclusion was that LCHF is around 70% as effective as IF on insulin levels. You are still maintaining a low insulin level even on eating day, with a significant drop on fasting days. This should, by logic, have greater impact on insulin sensitivity due to long periods of low insulin levels. His whole blog is quite interesting. His book, The Obesity Code, is a great and easy read. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/power-comparison-fasting-vs-low-carb-fasting-26/ https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/power-comparison-fast...
xarope 10y ago
I tried searching for the original article, but this is the closest I could find that had a better writeup than from the telegraph: https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system/ https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regene... This is the most relevant summary: "In both mice and a Phase 1 human clinical trial involving patients receiving chemotherapy, long periods of not eating significantly lowered white blood cell counts. In mice, fasting cycles then “flipped a regenerative switch,” changing the signaling pathways for hematopoietic stem cells, which are responsible for the generation of blood and immune systems, the research showed." So, mice, and people undergoing chemotherapy. Not exactly (for those who have had friends and relatives ever had to undergo chemotherapy, you will understand what I mean) the common population. I'll pass on this intermittent fasting "fad" for now!
- coldtea 10y ago
  >So, mice, and people undergoing chemotherapy. Not exactly (for those who have had friends and relatives ever had to undergo chemotherapy, you will understand what I mean) the common population. Why would it be any different for the "common population"? >I'll pass on this intermittent fasting "fad" for now! Fad? It's being around for millennia for.
  - erelde 10y ago
    >Why would it be any different for the "common population"? Because the "common population" does not have half their blood replaced by burning chemicals every week. >Fad? It's being around for millennia for. And for millenia, many people thought the Earth was flat, the age of a belief doesn't validate that belief.
    - radiorental 10y ago
      Intermittent fasting is a well documented & proven phenomena. It also regularly appears in the form of various articles on HN with many proponents here. I don't follow it, I like my food. However, a cursory glance through other comment on this thread may give you cause to rethink your pov.
NinoScript 10y ago
If I were to fast for that long, should I ingest anything other than water? Some vitamin supplements for example? Or maybe a bit of salt? Or is it really only water?
- Oras 10y ago
  exactly what I thought when I read the article.
- baccheion 10y ago
  Ingesting anything will ruin the fast. Even brushing your teeth becomes tricky, as toothpaste can ruin everything. I ended up using a salt water solution (and an electric tooth brush) to do the job, but in hindsight, I could've used something like ToothSoap. It's extremely important to rinse the mouth thoroughly, so you don't swallow anything. It is possible to run low on vitamins (depending on how long you go). If it's just 3-7 days, then it doesn't matter as much, but some people go a full 28 days (you can theoretically go about 40 days without causing problems, but as it will take another 40 days to break the fast, it proves to be too much for someone's first time (with 3-7 days working better)). The step in a water fast that does most people in is the breaking of the fast. The key to a successful water fast is properly breaking the fast. It can be even more difficult, as while any hunger usually goes away within the first day or two, when the fast is first broken (with your first taste of 50% watermelon + 50% water, for example), it will kick the digestive system back into action, and you may easily become overwhelmed by an intense hunger. If you don't have the willpower to ignore this hunger, then you may end up eating something prematurely or eating too much. The solution that works for most is to either buffer up on vitamins and minerals in the weeks leading up to the fast (which also ensures they don't have any hidden deficiencies), or to start with a juice fast (vegetables blended in a Vitamix, for example).
  - imatworkyo 10y ago
    and whats wrong with eating too much - I understand that you say breaking the fast is important ... but why?
mikkom 10y ago
I thought I had seen this before and then I checked the date. This is from 2014.
ivanhoe 10y ago
Donating blood has a very similar "boost" effect, and also helps save lives.
- koolba 10y ago
  Are there long term studies of the health effects of blood donation? I wonder if there's a way to have a control group that thinks they donated, but didn't. Fake blood pack maybe?
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    A significant problem is that they check to see if you are relatively healthy before they take your blood.
- acconrad 10y ago
  Unless the act of donating blood releases some endorphins because you're helping someone else, then this is just bloodletting or phlebotomy, which is considered pseudoscience by the medical community. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=vH1EAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&dq=bloodletting+pseudoscience&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0VL3VJfPJIagyQTLkIGICg&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=bloodletting%20pseudoscience&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=vH1EAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&dq=b...
  - nwah1 10y ago
    Donating blood can remove some excess iron in your bloodstream, which could be the source of some purported health benefits of blood donation.
  - mrob 10y ago
    Phlebotomy is still the standard treatment for iron overload. Humans usually regulate iron levels effectively by reducing absorption when iron levels are high, but there are genetic diseases where this regulation malfunctions, and very high dietary intake (usually from supplements) can overwhelm it. Iron overload affects many different organs so mild cases might not have any obvious symptoms beyond a vague sense of bad health. There has been some research suggesting health benefits to phlebotomy even in patients without obvious iron overload, eg: http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-10-54 http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7...
baccheion 10y ago
The most shocking thing (when I fasted for 5 days) occurred when I broke the fast. I broke it with 4 ounces of liquid (50% watermelon (straight from the fruit) + 50% water), only to have it come right back out 15-30 minutes later-- just as red as it was when it went it. It was mind boggling. I suppose I had gone my entire life thinking what comes out was always supposed to be brown, but when I looked in the toilet, all I saw was red. I couldn't believe it. Also, I'm not dead. And lucky enough for me, I wasn't very toxic, so I easily went 5 days on nothing but water.
- chillax 10y ago
  You weren't very toxic?
  - baccheion 10y ago
    I didn't have a lot of toxins stored in my fat cells, as I was reasonably healthy prior to the fast. Some people have a lot of "bad stuff" which will enter their bloodstream when their body breaks down adipose for fuel. They tend to be better served by starting with a juice fast, then building up to a full on water fast. It's easy to tell if you're among them, as you'll have severe "detox" symptoms a day or two into the fast. The proper reaction to such an experience is to wind the fast down, or transition to a juice fast (all things you should read about and be aware of before you begin).
    - adwn 10y ago
      > Some people have a lot of "bad stuff" which will enter their bloodstream when their body breaks down adipose for fuel. [...] you'll have severe "detox" symptoms a day or two into the fast. Your body doesn't work that way. "Detoxing diets" are pure superstition – which toxins are those supposed to be anyway? From [1]: "The 'toxins' usually remain undefined, with little to no evidence of toxic accumulation in the patient." This fits your claims perfectly... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification_(alternative_medicine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification_(alternative_me...
abarringer 10y ago
In my own experience day 3 of a water fast had profound effect on my health. I have some health issues so I closely monitor my blood pressure and blood sugar. On the morning of the fourth day my blood pressure and blood sugar would drop tremendously and stay normal for several months. ymmv
- Karnickel 10y ago
  We are missing a lot of context - much of which you can't supply here even if you wanted to. For example, it seems entirely plausible and not exactly rocket science that not eating the wrong foods (for a given person - what "wrong" means may vary widely and wildly depending on their context!) is better than eating it. For an example (of the example), if you eat a lot of high glycemic index foods it's not hard to guess why your blood sugar is doing better without it. This is the problem with all those reports from people who say they are doing so much better during a fast.
  - abarringer 10y ago
    You are right on every point. Water fasting was not Dr. recommended but the profound positive effects were documented by the follow on tests they performed. No one seems to know why it "worked". I dunno if it is knowable at this point. But one thing I do know I was very ill and now I'm a lot better and fasting was a key reason why.
    - jgreaser 10y ago
      I'm reminded of Ignaz Semmelweis, the doctor associated with hand-washing. Even though he demonstrated clinically that hand-washing reduced sickness/mortality, it took decades to catch on because, "it didn't make sense." I.e., there wasn't sufficient theory to explain WHY it worked.
- 6DM 10y ago
  It should be noted that going from eating a lot of unhealthy food to a 24hr fast might be a little on the dangerous side for some. The first time I tried it after about 12 or so hours I felt like I was going to pass out. So I ate something to stablize myself. After eating healthier for a while it's much easier to attempt.
mrfusion 10y ago
How do you get electrolytes during a fast?
- hyperdunc 10y ago
  You don't need to consume any. For a normal water fast where you don't exercise, everything you need is taken from the liver and fat.
  - mrfusion 10y ago
    So it's really just sweating that draws down your electroliytes?
    - hyperdunc 10y ago
      Sweating will eliminate large quantities of electrolytes quickly, but you will pass out before that happens. Any exercise beyond light stretching while on a water fast is dangerous.
mrfusion 10y ago
Would this help with gum disease?
- BuildTheRobots 10y ago
  Somewhat off topic, but a few friends now seem to have great success using Oil Pulling to combat gum disease so might be worth looking into (obviously keep brushing/flossing etc). I've started doing it on my drive to work which has the added bonus of stopping me smoking as much.
  - collyw 10y ago
    And these is some science backing it up: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408265 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408265
- acwu 10y ago
  It's interesting you brought this up. I used to skip breakfast all the time being a late riser. My gums were in a terrible shape with constant flare ups. I couldn't figure out why since I don't smoke. A few months ago I started eating breakfast regularly and I've noticed marked improvement. Obviously this is just my personal experience and YMMV.
  - hollerith 10y ago
    It is hard for me to figure out what an improvement caused by starting to eat breakfast regularly has to do with the immune-stimulating effects of not eating for 3 days! ADDED. Thanks for the reply to this comment.
    - acwu 10y ago
      I was just responding to a comment asking about gum disease. Also I cringed somewhat reading comments thst advocate fasting that involves skipping breakfast. I don't claim to have any expertise.
lgp171188 10y ago
I fasted for a day when fighting with my parents. Worst thing to do since I am a Type-1 diabetic and ended up with Diabetic Ketoacidosis the next day and a near-death experience :-( Fasting is not for everyone!
- dualogy 10y ago
  Well it's pretty much for any mammal except type-1 diabetics --- plus folks taking medication for blood sugar / insulin regulation without informing themselves thoroughly beforehand and monitoring carefully.
  - lgp171188 10y ago
    I was an idiot and I am not proud of that! I was thinking like "I need insulin when I eat food. So since I am not eating, I don't need insulin and everything will be fine" :-(
pknerd 10y ago
Well, Islam gave the concept of 3 days fasting every month 1500 years ago and called "Ayyam Beez" and many Muslims have been practising it in every generation. Glad to know that science also discovered it.
- misev 10y ago
  Interesting, why isn't it as popular as Ramadan? I could barely find anything about it online.
  - pknerd 10y ago
    Ramadan's fasting are compulsory while this and many others are not.
  - SinomaSo 10y ago
    It's not popular as Ramadan because it's not a must. Its called "ayaam albeed" which translates to "white days". It's called that because the moon is full on those three Days (13, 14 and 15th of each moon calendar month). The fast is from dawn to sunset and you are not allowed to drink water during that period. [1] https://pearlsofamuslim.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/white-days.jpg?w=771&h=953 https://pearlsofamuslim.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/white-da...
- sosuke 10y ago
  Scientific study proves (and sometimes doesn't) thing we take as common sense. Recently there was a study that dogs understood us more than was previously thought. Which wasn't a shocker but you have a camp of folks saying dogs understand nothing and another camp that continuously speak to their dogs. The scientific study just adds empirical proof.
- xutopia 10y ago
  If we were to take everything religion brings to the table seriously we'd be in a big mess.
  - pknerd 10y ago
micahbright 10y ago
I am curious the effect this would have on people with HIV/AIDS.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  Likely deadly in case of AIDS. Initial stage of the fast lowers immunity a lot. Body reacts by lowering metabolism via parathyroid suppression among other things.
randomgyatwork 10y ago
Last weekend I did a 60 hour fast, part of my motivation was research like this. What I discovered after and into this week is that my self-control has increased dramatically.
rdtsc 10y ago
It is interesting that fasting and dietary restrictions are part of many popular religions. Perhaps some discovered these benefits and codified them as scriptures.
drc0 10y ago
let's see how many people will try fasting alone and end up with bad side effects.
chiefalchemist 10y ago
For ages various alt-medical practitioners have been mentioning fasting as a positive. But "the real science" has denied its value. Not, "Oh, we're not sure." But, "Oh. No way. That can't be." Will Med Science now come out and say, "Oh, we're sorry. Looks like y'all were right all along."? (Hit: No never.) Instead they'll spin it as, "Look what we found..." And people wonder why many of us don't trust Big Science, Big Med, Big Pharma, etc. Ha. They're assholes. That's why. Makes ya wonder, when occasional we hear about some "miracle" recovery if that person didn't accidentally fast from being too ill to eat, and that actually kicked started curing them. It wasn't the meds. It was the fasting. How many meds and med studies were skewed because this wasn't factored in?
chiefalchemist 10y ago
re: "People are better eating on a regular basis.” Well, that depends on what you're eating. One can't help but wonder if the reaction is not because of fasting per se, but because toxins are not be introduced into the body on a regular basis.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
yuja_wang 10y ago
The "Body Positivity" movement that encourages people, especially young woman, to be obese or overweight, and tries to criminalize images of slender people in advertising may be the most unhealthy political movement there is. Obesity kills 300,000 people in the U.S. each year, and with the exception of several hundred people suffering with psychological disorders who manage to starve themselves each year, being slender or even a bit "underweight" has no negative health effects and may have some positive ones.
simonebrunozzi 10y ago
I know Valter Longo, one of the paper's authors. Valter created a company, L-Nutra (http://www.l-nutra.com/ http://www.l-nutra.com/), and donated his shares to a foundation to avoid any conflict of interest. I have tried their product, Pro-Lon, twice, and I have been very pleased with the results. Feel free to ask me anything if you're interested in learning more.

199 points by rhubarbcustard 10y ago

Do they literally mean zero intake of calories for 72 hours? That sounds like a long time. How do you prepare for that nutrition wise and mentally? People eat at night during the ramadan.

majewsky 10y ago
I suppose not, but the lack of specification which method of fasting was used is the most glaring omission in this piece.
- xarope 10y ago
  see my comment above: "In this study, the mice were allowed to drink water, but no food was allowed"
  - majewsky 10y ago
    Thanks for taking the time to drill into the study. It's just disappointing that the journalists apparently didn't have the time (or didn't consider it relevant).
MrLeftHand 10y ago
Probably there is some minimum, because when you drink just regular water that has some calories as well. And not drinking for a day might be he worst dietary idea ever. UPDATE: Water doesn't contain calories. Sorry for the misinformation. My mouth (actually my hands) was faster then my brain. :-)
- majewsky 10y ago
  If regular water has calories in it, then I would not be willing to drink it. ;)
- kseistrup 10y ago
  Please explain where the calories in plain water come from.
  - dottedmag 10y ago
    According to mass-energy equivalence, every gram of water contains ~2.15*10^13 calories.
    - macalicious 10y ago
      I think you're missing an algebraic sign there.
    - nnq 10y ago
      So where can I sign up for having my stomach replaced with a matter-antimater reactor or whatever it is this gadget that actually gives me access to this energy?
    - collyw 10y ago
      I assume you are talking on the physics e=mc^2 type level rather than an energy store that can be metabolized by your body.
codedinosaur 10y ago
About 3 years ago, I undertook a water fast that lasted about 17 days. It does take a lot of mental preparation. Nutrition wise, I ate only fruits for about a week before the fast. The first few days were very hard, but then I simply did not feel hunger at all. I intended to continue the fast for 30 days. But from about the 4th day onwards my mouth started having an awful odour and my tongue had a thick white coating that was the source. Into the third week, I simply couldn't bear that smell anymore and gave up. for getting back to regular food, I did the same thing and had only juices and fruits for about 3-4 days. Now, I'm not an expert, but I read while preparing for the water fast that your body has nutrients it needs to survive for a few weeks. I didn't take any supplements during that time. Unfortunately, at that time i didn't have the means to measure and quantify what changed after the fast. I do remember being in a great mood for a few days after the fast. I don't know how much it benefited me, but it was an interesting exercise
- xarope 10y ago
  That odour is probably the ketones coming into play when the body starts using fat for energy, instead of carbs or protein. And yes, it's a well known fact.
  - dualogy 10y ago
    For 3 weeks straight would be unusual though and not explain the commonly occurring tongue coating.
    - AstralStorm 10y ago
      Sounds more like lack of immunity and candidosis.
- chongli 10y ago
  You still have to brush your teeth when fasting. Scrape all that plaque biofilm off your tongue. Plaque bacteria feed on all sorts of nutrients in your mouth and in your saliva, not just food residue.
xarope 10y ago
Thanks to blue1 who found the original paper (http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%2900151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%...), I found this in the comments section: "In this study, the mice were allowed to drink water, but no food was allowed. In general, when limited food & water are allowed, the protocol is referred to as a "fasting-mimicking diet"" So no food, but water was allowed. Just remember the context: the mice were subjected to chemotherapy schedules... so it's not like "hey take healthy mice, fast them and see them get healthy", but more like "hey take healthy mice, fast them, subject them to chemotherapy, and look... their immune system responds better than if we allowed them to eat pre-chemo" (apologies if I summarised this wrong)
- davidwparker 10y ago
  That paper isn't the original- it's a followup. The original is a strict fast (water only) for 72 hours. The FMD (Fasting Mimic Diet) is for 120 hours (5 days) and has more food allowed: "The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate)."
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    Wow, that's lower than what many calorie restriction experimenters run!
    - davidwparker 10y ago
      Yeah, it's supposed to "Mimic" a fast. Supposedly it's easier to do than the 3-day water only fast, since you're getting some sustenance, but I haven't tried it.
musha68k 10y ago
If you have regularly eaten well for some time before (i.e. no junk food but real food) you probably (?) have a sufficient store of nutrients to keep your system running for 72 hours. The important question to me: Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast?
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast? I don't think so, but I'm not professional. The caloric content of black coffee is negligible.
- ux-app 10y ago
  > Does drinking coffee (black without sugar naturally) blow the supposedly positive effects of the fast? I curious about this and the effect of zero calorie soft drinks.
- leonroy 10y ago
  As a coffee addict and someone who fasts I keep looking into this. Strictly speaking a fast is supposed to allow a period of detox for the body so coffee isn't really a good idea. That said it doesn't break your fast since it has a trace calorie content (provided no milk and sugar). After all some proponents of fasting recommend water with lemons or apple cider vinegar (for killing bio films/candida effects). I can't imagine coffee would be that different to lemon water calorie wise. Pros and cons - if no coffee makes your fast unbearable have some (I always do), but ideally you're looking to consume only water.
hyperdunc 10y ago
It's not that hard. If you're going to do three days you might as well do a little longer. It takes around three days to switch to ketosis, after which hunger disappears. I did a week with just a sense of determination and knowledge of what to expect, and my relationship with food improved immensely.
- mobiuscog 10y ago
  It's even easier if you eat a ketogenic diet already.
pmoriarty 10y ago
There is a lot of evidence that the human body can survive for much, much longer than 72 hours without food: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-can-a-person-sur/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-can-a-per... http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17095605 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17095605 The first article mentions someone going for 73 days without food, the second 66 days, and many others for shorter periods (but still on the order of multiple tens of days). Some examples: "In the 1940s, Mahatma Gandhi survived 21 days on sips of water during a display of civil disobedience." "Dr Mike Stroud, senior lecturer of Medicine and Nutrition at Southampton University ... who accompanied veteran British adventurer Sir Ranulph Fiennes across the Antarctic, said it was possible to survive 60 days without food." "In 1981, Republican prisoner Bobby Sands died in Northern Ireland's Maze prison after a hunger strike lasting 66 days." Of course many factors may influence how long you can go without food, such as the amount of physical activity you engage in. If you're running marathons every day, you're naturally not going to be able to go without food as long as someone who's immobile the whole time, etc.
- yuja_wang 10y ago
  Fat people can fast for a year with few problems. Here's a write up from the NIH. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/post... Overeating is a psychological disorder. Few Americans would have any ill effects not eating for a few days -- especially the 66% of Americans who are obese or overweight.

FuNe 10y ago

> When you starve, the system tries to save energy, and one of the things it can do to save energy is to recycle a lot of the immune cells that are not needed, especially those that may be damaged That's remarkable news. I'm waiting to see the counter-arguments though. Fasting for 3 days seems like stretching the limits a bit. Also it seems to imply that these 3days periods are repeatable over the course of a few months.

hyperdunc 10y ago
It is indeed a fascinating discovery. BTW, fasting for more than three days sounds crazy but can be surprisingly easy.

blue1 10y ago

The original paper: http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%2900151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%...

elabftw 10y ago
THANK YOU!

kseistrup 10y ago

Although I haven't attempted this myself, I have seen many people attempt to endure a 72 hours fast (as part of diagnosing a potential pheochromocytoma) and the majority experience this as extremely difficult. I wonder if multiple shorter fasts — e.g., a 24 hours fast once a week — could be as beneficial.

snowpanda 10y ago
I have fasted for approximately a week on 4 different occasions and interestingly enough the 72 hours that you mentioned are indeed the hardest. For me personally it started getting easier at that specific 72 hour mark. In regards to the multiple 24 hours fast I was wondering the same thing reading this article. Although I think it might not work because of the white blood cells regenerating.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  I don't think that's fasting any more, sounds more like starvation, to me.
  - hyperdunc 10y ago
    No, hunger disappears around day 3, then returns with a vengeance shortly before death, which can be up to 3 months later. This second burst of hunger is actual starvation.
dazzawazza 10y ago
I regularly fast for 20+ hours (calorie restriction, I do drink water because I am not an idiot) once or twice a week. You get very used to it. While its not something I look forward to, it's purely psychological. A few hours after I miss 'breakfast' my tummy rumbles two or three times and then my body doesn't care anymore. The max time I've fasted is forty hours and I have to say if you can get past the first fours hours, it's easy. I didn't really plan to fast that long, circumstances led to it. I actually found it hard to eat after it. I normally eat a very small 500-600 calorie meal after a fast but I couldn't finish it after the long fast. I think we underestimate how adaptable our body is and how intermittent fasting is actually the norm for most mammals.

mabcat 10y ago

Tim Ferriss has poked at the positive effects of intermittent fasting on cancer/health/longevity a bit. I found this interview with Dominic D'Agostino very informative: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/ Also: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/03/02/postponing-death-caloric-restriction-vs-intermittent-fasting-part-1/ http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/03/02/postponing-death-calo...

sogen 10y ago
Sounds good, how old is he? 80? 90?
cableshaft 10y ago
What he argues makes some sense, but his total dismissal of IF paired with low-carb seemed counter-productive. "The one question that remains unanswered is whether or not the intermittent fast followed in a low-carbohydrate way will lead to these same problems. To me, that point is kind of moot. Why? Because I looked at the IF as a strategy that allowed me to eat a lot of high carb foods that I would normally avoid and not pay the health consequences for it. If I’m going to limit myself to low-carb foods, why go on the IF? I can get the same results just following a regular, whole-food, low-carb diet without having to eat only every other day." Okay, so you only care about IF if it lets you indulge in high-carbohydrate food, so you aren't even going to try to determine if your thermogenesis argument holds for people doing both IF and low carb? Considering I'm currently doing a low-carb diet and using mild IF (basically skipping breakfasts and not eating after ~8pm, so roughly 14-16 hours fasting most days) to try to break my weight plateaus and meet my weight loss goals, that paragraph, while valid (and I'm glad he shared it), rubbed me the wrong way and doesn't give me any information to help me determine whether I should be skipping that meal or not.
- jwdunne 10y ago
  I was reading a blog post by Dr Jason Fung that compared LCHF with IF. Conclusion was that LCHF is around 70% as effective as IF on insulin levels. You are still maintaining a low insulin level even on eating day, with a significant drop on fasting days. This should, by logic, have greater impact on insulin sensitivity due to long periods of low insulin levels. His whole blog is quite interesting. His book, The Obesity Code, is a great and easy read. https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/power-comparison-fasting-vs-low-carb-fasting-26/ https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/power-comparison-fast...

xarope 10y ago

I tried searching for the original article, but this is the closest I could find that had a better writeup than from the telegraph: https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system/ https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regene... This is the most relevant summary: "In both mice and a Phase 1 human clinical trial involving patients receiving chemotherapy, long periods of not eating significantly lowered white blood cell counts. In mice, fasting cycles then “flipped a regenerative switch,” changing the signaling pathways for hematopoietic stem cells, which are responsible for the generation of blood and immune systems, the research showed." So, mice, and people undergoing chemotherapy. Not exactly (for those who have had friends and relatives ever had to undergo chemotherapy, you will understand what I mean) the common population. I'll pass on this intermittent fasting "fad" for now!

coldtea 10y ago
>So, mice, and people undergoing chemotherapy. Not exactly (for those who have had friends and relatives ever had to undergo chemotherapy, you will understand what I mean) the common population. Why would it be any different for the "common population"? >I'll pass on this intermittent fasting "fad" for now! Fad? It's being around for millennia for.
- erelde 10y ago
  >Why would it be any different for the "common population"? Because the "common population" does not have half their blood replaced by burning chemicals every week. >Fad? It's being around for millennia for. And for millenia, many people thought the Earth was flat, the age of a belief doesn't validate that belief.
  - radiorental 10y ago
    Intermittent fasting is a well documented & proven phenomena. It also regularly appears in the form of various articles on HN with many proponents here. I don't follow it, I like my food. However, a cursory glance through other comment on this thread may give you cause to rethink your pov.

NinoScript 10y ago

If I were to fast for that long, should I ingest anything other than water? Some vitamin supplements for example? Or maybe a bit of salt? Or is it really only water?

Oras 10y ago
exactly what I thought when I read the article.
baccheion 10y ago
Ingesting anything will ruin the fast. Even brushing your teeth becomes tricky, as toothpaste can ruin everything. I ended up using a salt water solution (and an electric tooth brush) to do the job, but in hindsight, I could've used something like ToothSoap. It's extremely important to rinse the mouth thoroughly, so you don't swallow anything. It is possible to run low on vitamins (depending on how long you go). If it's just 3-7 days, then it doesn't matter as much, but some people go a full 28 days (you can theoretically go about 40 days without causing problems, but as it will take another 40 days to break the fast, it proves to be too much for someone's first time (with 3-7 days working better)). The step in a water fast that does most people in is the breaking of the fast. The key to a successful water fast is properly breaking the fast. It can be even more difficult, as while any hunger usually goes away within the first day or two, when the fast is first broken (with your first taste of 50% watermelon + 50% water, for example), it will kick the digestive system back into action, and you may easily become overwhelmed by an intense hunger. If you don't have the willpower to ignore this hunger, then you may end up eating something prematurely or eating too much. The solution that works for most is to either buffer up on vitamins and minerals in the weeks leading up to the fast (which also ensures they don't have any hidden deficiencies), or to start with a juice fast (vegetables blended in a Vitamix, for example).
- imatworkyo 10y ago
  and whats wrong with eating too much - I understand that you say breaking the fast is important ... but why?

mikkom 10y ago

I thought I had seen this before and then I checked the date. This is from 2014.

ivanhoe 10y ago

Donating blood has a very similar "boost" effect, and also helps save lives.

koolba 10y ago
Are there long term studies of the health effects of blood donation? I wonder if there's a way to have a control group that thinks they donated, but didn't. Fake blood pack maybe?
- maxerickson 10y ago
  A significant problem is that they check to see if you are relatively healthy before they take your blood.
acconrad 10y ago
Unless the act of donating blood releases some endorphins because you're helping someone else, then this is just bloodletting or phlebotomy, which is considered pseudoscience by the medical community. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=vH1EAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&dq=bloodletting+pseudoscience&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0VL3VJfPJIagyQTLkIGICg&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=bloodletting%20pseudoscience&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=vH1EAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&dq=b...
- nwah1 10y ago
  Donating blood can remove some excess iron in your bloodstream, which could be the source of some purported health benefits of blood donation.
- mrob 10y ago
  Phlebotomy is still the standard treatment for iron overload. Humans usually regulate iron levels effectively by reducing absorption when iron levels are high, but there are genetic diseases where this regulation malfunctions, and very high dietary intake (usually from supplements) can overwhelm it. Iron overload affects many different organs so mild cases might not have any obvious symptoms beyond a vague sense of bad health. There has been some research suggesting health benefits to phlebotomy even in patients without obvious iron overload, eg: http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-10-54 http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7...

baccheion 10y ago

The most shocking thing (when I fasted for 5 days) occurred when I broke the fast. I broke it with 4 ounces of liquid (50% watermelon (straight from the fruit) + 50% water), only to have it come right back out 15-30 minutes later-- just as red as it was when it went it. It was mind boggling. I suppose I had gone my entire life thinking what comes out was always supposed to be brown, but when I looked in the toilet, all I saw was red. I couldn't believe it. Also, I'm not dead. And lucky enough for me, I wasn't very toxic, so I easily went 5 days on nothing but water.

chillax 10y ago
You weren't very toxic?
- baccheion 10y ago
  I didn't have a lot of toxins stored in my fat cells, as I was reasonably healthy prior to the fast. Some people have a lot of "bad stuff" which will enter their bloodstream when their body breaks down adipose for fuel. They tend to be better served by starting with a juice fast, then building up to a full on water fast. It's easy to tell if you're among them, as you'll have severe "detox" symptoms a day or two into the fast. The proper reaction to such an experience is to wind the fast down, or transition to a juice fast (all things you should read about and be aware of before you begin).
  - adwn 10y ago
    > Some people have a lot of "bad stuff" which will enter their bloodstream when their body breaks down adipose for fuel. [...] you'll have severe "detox" symptoms a day or two into the fast. Your body doesn't work that way. "Detoxing diets" are pure superstition – which toxins are those supposed to be anyway? From [1]: "The 'toxins' usually remain undefined, with little to no evidence of toxic accumulation in the patient." This fits your claims perfectly... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification_(alternative_medicine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification_(alternative_me...

abarringer 10y ago

In my own experience day 3 of a water fast had profound effect on my health. I have some health issues so I closely monitor my blood pressure and blood sugar. On the morning of the fourth day my blood pressure and blood sugar would drop tremendously and stay normal for several months. ymmv

Karnickel 10y ago
We are missing a lot of context - much of which you can't supply here even if you wanted to. For example, it seems entirely plausible and not exactly rocket science that not eating the wrong foods (for a given person - what "wrong" means may vary widely and wildly depending on their context!) is better than eating it. For an example (of the example), if you eat a lot of high glycemic index foods it's not hard to guess why your blood sugar is doing better without it. This is the problem with all those reports from people who say they are doing so much better during a fast.
- abarringer 10y ago
  You are right on every point. Water fasting was not Dr. recommended but the profound positive effects were documented by the follow on tests they performed. No one seems to know why it "worked". I dunno if it is knowable at this point. But one thing I do know I was very ill and now I'm a lot better and fasting was a key reason why.
  - jgreaser 10y ago
    I'm reminded of Ignaz Semmelweis, the doctor associated with hand-washing. Even though he demonstrated clinically that hand-washing reduced sickness/mortality, it took decades to catch on because, "it didn't make sense." I.e., there wasn't sufficient theory to explain WHY it worked.
6DM 10y ago
It should be noted that going from eating a lot of unhealthy food to a 24hr fast might be a little on the dangerous side for some. The first time I tried it after about 12 or so hours I felt like I was going to pass out. So I ate something to stablize myself. After eating healthier for a while it's much easier to attempt.

mrfusion 10y ago

How do you get electrolytes during a fast?

hyperdunc 10y ago
You don't need to consume any. For a normal water fast where you don't exercise, everything you need is taken from the liver and fat.
- mrfusion 10y ago
  So it's really just sweating that draws down your electroliytes?
  - hyperdunc 10y ago
    Sweating will eliminate large quantities of electrolytes quickly, but you will pass out before that happens. Any exercise beyond light stretching while on a water fast is dangerous.

mrfusion 10y ago

Would this help with gum disease?

BuildTheRobots 10y ago
Somewhat off topic, but a few friends now seem to have great success using Oil Pulling to combat gum disease so might be worth looking into (obviously keep brushing/flossing etc). I've started doing it on my drive to work which has the added bonus of stopping me smoking as much.
- collyw 10y ago
  And these is some science backing it up: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408265 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408265
acwu 10y ago
It's interesting you brought this up. I used to skip breakfast all the time being a late riser. My gums were in a terrible shape with constant flare ups. I couldn't figure out why since I don't smoke. A few months ago I started eating breakfast regularly and I've noticed marked improvement. Obviously this is just my personal experience and YMMV.
- hollerith 10y ago
  It is hard for me to figure out what an improvement caused by starting to eat breakfast regularly has to do with the immune-stimulating effects of not eating for 3 days! ADDED. Thanks for the reply to this comment.
  - acwu 10y ago
    I was just responding to a comment asking about gum disease. Also I cringed somewhat reading comments thst advocate fasting that involves skipping breakfast. I don't claim to have any expertise.

lgp171188 10y ago

I fasted for a day when fighting with my parents. Worst thing to do since I am a Type-1 diabetic and ended up with Diabetic Ketoacidosis the next day and a near-death experience :-( Fasting is not for everyone!

dualogy 10y ago
Well it's pretty much for any mammal except type-1 diabetics --- plus folks taking medication for blood sugar / insulin regulation without informing themselves thoroughly beforehand and monitoring carefully.
- lgp171188 10y ago
  I was an idiot and I am not proud of that! I was thinking like "I need insulin when I eat food. So since I am not eating, I don't need insulin and everything will be fine" :-(

pknerd 10y ago

Well, Islam gave the concept of 3 days fasting every month 1500 years ago and called "Ayyam Beez" and many Muslims have been practising it in every generation. Glad to know that science also discovered it.

misev 10y ago
Interesting, why isn't it as popular as Ramadan? I could barely find anything about it online.
- pknerd 10y ago
  Ramadan's fasting are compulsory while this and many others are not.
- SinomaSo 10y ago
  It's not popular as Ramadan because it's not a must. Its called "ayaam albeed" which translates to "white days". It's called that because the moon is full on those three Days (13, 14 and 15th of each moon calendar month). The fast is from dawn to sunset and you are not allowed to drink water during that period. [1] https://pearlsofamuslim.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/white-days.jpg?w=771&h=953 https://pearlsofamuslim.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/white-da...
sosuke 10y ago
Scientific study proves (and sometimes doesn't) thing we take as common sense. Recently there was a study that dogs understood us more than was previously thought. Which wasn't a shocker but you have a camp of folks saying dogs understand nothing and another camp that continuously speak to their dogs. The scientific study just adds empirical proof.
xutopia 10y ago
If we were to take everything religion brings to the table seriously we'd be in a big mess.
- pknerd 10y ago

micahbright 10y ago

I am curious the effect this would have on people with HIV/AIDS.

AstralStorm 10y ago
Likely deadly in case of AIDS. Initial stage of the fast lowers immunity a lot. Body reacts by lowering metabolism via parathyroid suppression among other things.

randomgyatwork 10y ago

Last weekend I did a 60 hour fast, part of my motivation was research like this. What I discovered after and into this week is that my self-control has increased dramatically.

rdtsc 10y ago

It is interesting that fasting and dietary restrictions are part of many popular religions. Perhaps some discovered these benefits and codified them as scriptures.

drc0 10y ago

let's see how many people will try fasting alone and end up with bad side effects.

chiefalchemist 10y ago

For ages various alt-medical practitioners have been mentioning fasting as a positive. But "the real science" has denied its value. Not, "Oh, we're not sure." But, "Oh. No way. That can't be." Will Med Science now come out and say, "Oh, we're sorry. Looks like y'all were right all along."? (Hit: No never.) Instead they'll spin it as, "Look what we found..." And people wonder why many of us don't trust Big Science, Big Med, Big Pharma, etc. Ha. They're assholes. That's why. Makes ya wonder, when occasional we hear about some "miracle" recovery if that person didn't accidentally fast from being too ill to eat, and that actually kicked started curing them. It wasn't the meds. It was the fasting. How many meds and med studies were skewed because this wasn't factored in?

chiefalchemist 10y ago

re: "People are better eating on a regular basis.” Well, that depends on what you're eating. One can't help but wonder if the reaction is not because of fasting per se, but because toxins are not be introduced into the body on a regular basis.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

yuja_wang 10y ago

The "Body Positivity" movement that encourages people, especially young woman, to be obese or overweight, and tries to criminalize images of slender people in advertising may be the most unhealthy political movement there is. Obesity kills 300,000 people in the U.S. each year, and with the exception of several hundred people suffering with psychological disorders who manage to starve themselves each year, being slender or even a bit "underweight" has no negative health effects and may have some positive ones.

simonebrunozzi 10y ago

I know Valter Longo, one of the paper's authors. Valter created a company, L-Nutra (http://www.l-nutra.com/ http://www.l-nutra.com/), and donated his shares to a foundation to avoid any conflict of interest. I have tried their product, Pro-Lon, twice, and I have been very pleased with the results. Feel free to ask me anything if you're interested in learning more.