6 ms·

The problem with cameras is that the limits are set by physics. The bigger your lens, the better the resolution. If only Apple could figure out a way to minia

by labster 10y ago

The problem with cameras is that the limits are set by physics. The bigger your lens, the better the resolution. If only Apple could figure out a way to miniaturize visible light.

richman777 10y ago
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that if they made the phone a little bit thicker to make if flush, we could get some crazy battery life (and a headphone jack).
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  You are definitively not alone. This race to thin phones with unusable battery life reminds me to the race to more and more mega pixels in digital cameras with unusable low exposition quality some years ago. It's just about the buzz, it just hinders the technology in order to be able to tell a more catchy number to consumers. I would happily go with a 33% thicker iPhone with great battery life and a headphone jack and I doubt that most of the people would notice the difference in size.
  - relaytheurgency 10y ago
    Right, I feel like we're back in the days before iPhone when so many different companies were coming out with lame gimmicks to sell their flip phones and sliders that were all virtually identical. Maybe we're stuck here until wearable tech becomes more of a reality?
  - threeseed 10y ago
    Pretty sure the hundreds of millions of people using untethered smartphones negates your argument that the battery life is "unusable". I would guess most people are okay using their phone during the day and charging at night.
    - labster 10y ago
      It doesn't negate the argument (even if it was hyperbole). I took an iPhone 5S out on a car trip yesterday across L.A., and forgot the car charger but hey it was fully charged. Used it for navigation for about 20 minutes total, and maybe 10 minutes total of phone calls. Checked email maybe 5 times. By about 8PM, the battery was at 2%, and I still needed to drive home. So the phone was unusable to me if I wanted to have ability to make an emergency call. And if the battery had gone down another 2%, the phone would have been entirely unusable. My iPhone 2G had better battery life than this given similar usage patterns. Sure you can cite LTE vs. 2G and processor ability etc, but battery life made the modern(-ish) phone less useful to me under what I consider are not that strenuous of conditions. This is a real problem, and battery life will definitely be a major consideration to the next phone I buy.
      - girvo 10y ago
        That happens with most 3 year old phones though... Batteries degrade unfortunately.
        tdkl 10y ago
        Being a phone announced 3 years ago, doesn't mean it's 3 years old. He could buy that phone last year, or get a new battery in it recently. The point is that the battery didn't last even a full day. All these gimmicks and breakthroughs don't mean shit, make a phone that lasts 3 days and that will be a game changer.
        girvo 10y ago
        > All these gimmicks and breakthroughs don't mean shit, make a phone that lasts 3 days and that will be a game changer. Oh, I completely agree with that. It's more that I have an iPhone 5S that I replaced the battery in and it lasts for about 24 hours with my usage patterns -- would I love more? Heck yes I would! A phone not making it through from morning to evening though implies that it's likely a dying battery, as the iPhone 5S should last longer than that.
  - massysett 10y ago
    This option is already available to you: buy an aftermarket case/battery combo. I see these around all the time. The beauty of Apple selling millions of iPhone is there is a viable market for whatever accessory you may want.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  iPhone SE: flush camera, great battery life, still has a headphone jack, and it fits in one hand!
  - serge2k 10y ago
    shame the screen is so tiny.
    - hanklazard 10y ago
      True but I'm not actually sure the smaller SE size is so bad--I'm not sure I actually need all this real estate. In fact, as I look to switch to an android phone because of this headphone nonsense, I'm actually finding my new problem is not being able to find a phone small enough! Maybe I'll regret it but my next phone (and last iPhone) might be an SE.
      - conception 10y ago
        You won't. It's fantastic and everything you want.
      - goerz 10y ago
        Trading my iPhone 6 "down" for an iPhone SE was one of the best choices I ever made!
      - wlesieutre 10y ago
        FWIW, I switched from an iPhone 4 to a Z3 Compact because it was the only decent "small" phone available. But a 4.6 inch screen is not actually "compact", as far as I'm concerned. I switched back to iPhones for the SE, which isn't that much physically smaller, but is a lot more usable nonetheless. It turns out the important dimensions are the overall width (for being able to hold it one handed) and the screen height (to reach everywhere with your thumb), and the iPhone SE's top and bottom bezels don't screw up either of those. With the Z3C you can hold it one handed, but you can't use it effectively unless you have gigantic hands. Making a phone fit in one hand isn't enough; if the entire face is covered with screen then it still takes two hands to operate it.
- adwf 10y ago
  Yep, the Sony Z3 compact did this a couple of years ago and was amazing. Top notch waterproof, superb battery, headphone jack, magnetic charger, SD card. Just one of those phones that really managed to hit the spot. Oddly enough, the main complaint I had about it was that because it was so flush and shiny, it slid around too much on a table. Had to put a protective film on which was a bit more grippy.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    > Top notch waterproof You mean those stupid plastic flaps with the gaskets that came unglued and prevented the flaps from even closing properly? http://stellatech.com/pubs/uploads/54c8de18efd94.jpg http://stellatech.com/pubs/uploads/54c8de18efd94.jpg And after marketing it as an underwater camera, they later backpedaled and said "waterproofing was tested in a standby state under laboratory conditions, do not attempt to use the phone underwater"? http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-don-t-use-waterproof-xperia-phones-underwater http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-don-t-use-waterproof... Waterproofing, maybe. Top notch waterproofing, absolutely not.
    - kevinykchan 10y ago
      > You mean those stupid plastic flaps with the gaskets that came unglued and prevented the flaps from even closing properly? This. Girlfriend had that phone. The device and their after-sales service was completely garbage. Sony failed to repair the unplugging flaps, even after multiple service attempts. And every single time, they did complete factory reset on the phone to replace the flaps (!!!).
      - Symbiote 10y ago
        They replaced my water damaged Z3 very quickly, but this was in the EU where consumer rights are stronger. My phone flaps are fine, but I charge it using the magnetic connector, so I rarely open them.
    - adwf 10y ago
      I've never opened those since I bought the phone. Installed the sim and SD card and then never touched it again. That's why I listed magnetic charging as a key feature ;)
fluxquanta 10y ago
This was something that confused me a bit too. On their product page they mention twice (once as a bold headline) that the maximum aperture of the camera is f/1.8. Why? I'm guessing that the average consumer has no idea what an f-stop is, or that having a maximum lens aperture of f/1.8 is any better than f/5.6 or f/16. And the people who do know probably also know that for a lens and sensor that are maybe a quarter of an inch wide, a bump in the maximum aperture is not going to make the camera perform anywhere near a dedicated camera, so the focus on that detail is a bit odd to me.
- b0p1x 10y ago
  Low light situations. You shouldn't need software to compensate for the light level (as much).
  - chris_7 10y ago
    The point is that anyone that knows what "f/1.8" means knows that a sensor of that size won't perform well. It's a weirdly technical term to include.
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      It's a great point from a marketing perspective. Something users don't understand but can pretend too - I need this because it's got a f/1.8 camera, way better than the Samsung f/5.6 [I made that up]. What's super good is that it looks so technical, it looks like something that real cameras have about them too. Marketing fluff, yay.
      - chris_7 10y ago
        Would be funny if it backfired - "the Samsung has more Fs!"
        pbhjpbhj 10y ago
        I'm sure that argument has been made many times. ("Better" depth of field!)
CamperBob2 10y ago
Interferometric arrays come to mind. An 8x8 array of small, flat lenses will eventually be just as good as one big one.

by labster 10y ago

The problem with cameras is that the limits are set by physics. The bigger your lens, the better the resolution. If only Apple could figure out a way to miniaturize visible light.

richman777 10y ago

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that if they made the phone a little bit thicker to make if flush, we could get some crazy battery life (and a headphone jack).

jbmorgado 10y ago
You are definitively not alone. This race to thin phones with unusable battery life reminds me to the race to more and more mega pixels in digital cameras with unusable low exposition quality some years ago. It's just about the buzz, it just hinders the technology in order to be able to tell a more catchy number to consumers. I would happily go with a 33% thicker iPhone with great battery life and a headphone jack and I doubt that most of the people would notice the difference in size.
- relaytheurgency 10y ago
  Right, I feel like we're back in the days before iPhone when so many different companies were coming out with lame gimmicks to sell their flip phones and sliders that were all virtually identical. Maybe we're stuck here until wearable tech becomes more of a reality?
- threeseed 10y ago
  Pretty sure the hundreds of millions of people using untethered smartphones negates your argument that the battery life is "unusable". I would guess most people are okay using their phone during the day and charging at night.
  - labster 10y ago
    It doesn't negate the argument (even if it was hyperbole). I took an iPhone 5S out on a car trip yesterday across L.A., and forgot the car charger but hey it was fully charged. Used it for navigation for about 20 minutes total, and maybe 10 minutes total of phone calls. Checked email maybe 5 times. By about 8PM, the battery was at 2%, and I still needed to drive home. So the phone was unusable to me if I wanted to have ability to make an emergency call. And if the battery had gone down another 2%, the phone would have been entirely unusable. My iPhone 2G had better battery life than this given similar usage patterns. Sure you can cite LTE vs. 2G and processor ability etc, but battery life made the modern(-ish) phone less useful to me under what I consider are not that strenuous of conditions. This is a real problem, and battery life will definitely be a major consideration to the next phone I buy.
    - girvo 10y ago
      That happens with most 3 year old phones though... Batteries degrade unfortunately.
      - tdkl 10y ago
        Being a phone announced 3 years ago, doesn't mean it's 3 years old. He could buy that phone last year, or get a new battery in it recently. The point is that the battery didn't last even a full day. All these gimmicks and breakthroughs don't mean shit, make a phone that lasts 3 days and that will be a game changer.
        girvo 10y ago
        > All these gimmicks and breakthroughs don't mean shit, make a phone that lasts 3 days and that will be a game changer. Oh, I completely agree with that. It's more that I have an iPhone 5S that I replaced the battery in and it lasts for about 24 hours with my usage patterns -- would I love more? Heck yes I would! A phone not making it through from morning to evening though implies that it's likely a dying battery, as the iPhone 5S should last longer than that.
- massysett 10y ago
  This option is already available to you: buy an aftermarket case/battery combo. I see these around all the time. The beauty of Apple selling millions of iPhone is there is a viable market for whatever accessory you may want.
wlesieutre 10y ago
iPhone SE: flush camera, great battery life, still has a headphone jack, and it fits in one hand!
- serge2k 10y ago
  shame the screen is so tiny.
  - hanklazard 10y ago
    True but I'm not actually sure the smaller SE size is so bad--I'm not sure I actually need all this real estate. In fact, as I look to switch to an android phone because of this headphone nonsense, I'm actually finding my new problem is not being able to find a phone small enough! Maybe I'll regret it but my next phone (and last iPhone) might be an SE.
    - conception 10y ago
      You won't. It's fantastic and everything you want.
    - goerz 10y ago
      Trading my iPhone 6 "down" for an iPhone SE was one of the best choices I ever made!
    - wlesieutre 10y ago
      FWIW, I switched from an iPhone 4 to a Z3 Compact because it was the only decent "small" phone available. But a 4.6 inch screen is not actually "compact", as far as I'm concerned. I switched back to iPhones for the SE, which isn't that much physically smaller, but is a lot more usable nonetheless. It turns out the important dimensions are the overall width (for being able to hold it one handed) and the screen height (to reach everywhere with your thumb), and the iPhone SE's top and bottom bezels don't screw up either of those. With the Z3C you can hold it one handed, but you can't use it effectively unless you have gigantic hands. Making a phone fit in one hand isn't enough; if the entire face is covered with screen then it still takes two hands to operate it.
adwf 10y ago
Yep, the Sony Z3 compact did this a couple of years ago and was amazing. Top notch waterproof, superb battery, headphone jack, magnetic charger, SD card. Just one of those phones that really managed to hit the spot. Oddly enough, the main complaint I had about it was that because it was so flush and shiny, it slid around too much on a table. Had to put a protective film on which was a bit more grippy.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  > Top notch waterproof You mean those stupid plastic flaps with the gaskets that came unglued and prevented the flaps from even closing properly? http://stellatech.com/pubs/uploads/54c8de18efd94.jpg http://stellatech.com/pubs/uploads/54c8de18efd94.jpg And after marketing it as an underwater camera, they later backpedaled and said "waterproofing was tested in a standby state under laboratory conditions, do not attempt to use the phone underwater"? http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-don-t-use-waterproof-xperia-phones-underwater http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-don-t-use-waterproof... Waterproofing, maybe. Top notch waterproofing, absolutely not.
  - kevinykchan 10y ago
    > You mean those stupid plastic flaps with the gaskets that came unglued and prevented the flaps from even closing properly? This. Girlfriend had that phone. The device and their after-sales service was completely garbage. Sony failed to repair the unplugging flaps, even after multiple service attempts. And every single time, they did complete factory reset on the phone to replace the flaps (!!!).
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      They replaced my water damaged Z3 very quickly, but this was in the EU where consumer rights are stronger. My phone flaps are fine, but I charge it using the magnetic connector, so I rarely open them.
  - adwf 10y ago
    I've never opened those since I bought the phone. Installed the sim and SD card and then never touched it again. That's why I listed magnetic charging as a key feature ;)

fluxquanta 10y ago

This was something that confused me a bit too. On their product page they mention twice (once as a bold headline) that the maximum aperture of the camera is f/1.8. Why? I'm guessing that the average consumer has no idea what an f-stop is, or that having a maximum lens aperture of f/1.8 is any better than f/5.6 or f/16. And the people who do know probably also know that for a lens and sensor that are maybe a quarter of an inch wide, a bump in the maximum aperture is not going to make the camera perform anywhere near a dedicated camera, so the focus on that detail is a bit odd to me.

b0p1x 10y ago
Low light situations. You shouldn't need software to compensate for the light level (as much).
- chris_7 10y ago
  The point is that anyone that knows what "f/1.8" means knows that a sensor of that size won't perform well. It's a weirdly technical term to include.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    It's a great point from a marketing perspective. Something users don't understand but can pretend too - I need this because it's got a f/1.8 camera, way better than the Samsung f/5.6 [I made that up]. What's super good is that it looks so technical, it looks like something that real cameras have about them too. Marketing fluff, yay.
    - chris_7 10y ago
      Would be funny if it backfired - "the Samsung has more Fs!"
      - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
        I'm sure that argument has been made many times. ("Better" depth of field!)

CamperBob2 10y ago

Interferometric arrays come to mind. An 8x8 array of small, flat lenses will eventually be just as good as one big one.