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"but said Apple doesn’t recognize it as an issue" Oh, I am so glad we have laws in my country to prevent asshole companies from doing things like this. Goods t
by tyfon 10y ago
"but said Apple doesn’t recognize it as an issue"
Oh, I am so glad we have laws in my country to prevent asshole companies from doing things like this.
Goods that is "expected to last long" has a five year mandatory warranty here and mobiles are included. The rest has two years.
It doesn't matter if they recognize it as an issue, the phone is broken period.
- davidiach 10y agoThere's no free lunch. What are the trade-offs? Do you pay more for the same devices than in other countries?
- k-mcgrady 10y agoThis extended warranty thing is common throughout the EU (in the UK it's 6 years for example). In the UK we pay more than the US for most things but it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences.
- anexprogrammer 10y agoIn the last couple of years the Sale of Goods Act protections were weakened as part of bringing us into line with Europe. It's now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act which although clearer gives fewer rights to refund from the seller. Note it's the retailer rather than manufacturer who is liable, so we have much more confidence that what we buy is "of merchantable quality", safe and legal to sell. Quite a number of HN threads have made this advantage clear.
- k-mcgrady 10y agoYes it's manufacturer for the first year (or two possibly) and after that it falls to the retailer.
- sbuk 10y ago"..it's hard to pin down the exact reasons and price differences" Generally it's down to VAT @ 20% and import duties, with some exchange rate padding. Example: Apple iPhone SE is £359 in the UK and $399 in the US. As of 15:00 on 06/09, the $399 is ~£298. Add 20% VAT and you have ~£358. EDIT: Exchange rates play a big part.
- tyfon 10y agoNo, they seem to about comparable i think. Electronics is generally ok priced here. I have no idea about apple prices in general, but a "Apple iPhone 6s Plus 128GB Sølv (Silver)" is approx 1257 USD including 25% VAT. That is about 1/3 of an average monthly salary here, maybe a bit less. Edit: country is Norway
- lorenzhs 10y agoFor comparison: it's $949 + sales tax in the US, and 1075€ ($1200) in Germany, including 19% VAT. So the German price without VAT is the same as the Norwegian without VAT. Mandatory warranty in Germany is 2 years, where in the first six months the manufacturer has to prove that it wasn't defective when they sold it to you if they want to dispute your claim. After six months, there's a reversal in the burden of proof, but claims are usually accepted without dispute. I'm not aware of anything that requires more than two years of warranty here, even for durable goods expected to last longer than that.
- germanier 10y ago> Mandatory warranty > the manufacturer has to prove Just nitpicking: the mandatory warranty ("Gewährleistung") is supplied by the seller, not the manufacturer. As a consumer you don't need to deal with the latter no matter what the former is trying to tell you. In the same line, the burden of proof after six month is on the seller not the manufacturer. A manufacturer often has an additional voluntary warranty ("Garantie") distinct from that. That is the case (including the role of the seller) across the whole EU by Directive 1999/44/EC (although member states can go beyond that and often do by e.g. extending the time).
- tyfon 10y agoIt is the same here, you never deal with the company, just send it to the store and they handle it from there. The five or two year warranty is called "Reklamasjonsrett" in Norwegian which covers design and manufacturing flaws. It also states that the seller can try to fix it three times, after that it needs to give you something equivalent (i.e. a new phone of at least the price of the old) and that they can't charge the customer for any ting relating to the repair. But we also have the "Garanti" from the manufacturer like you do.
- cortesoft 10y agoCorporate profits aren't as high.
- edpichler 10y agoWhat country do you live?
- hkjgkjy 10y agoWhile all us non-americans can gloat about what great consumer protection laws we have (and I'm very happy about them as a consumer!) it's not for no reason that all cool stuff is made by americans. They have the state of Delaware, and they have the government who prioritize business before social issues. Correlated (and if you ask me, causative (is that a word?)) is that most impressive companies and products are invented by Americans.
- jhbadger 10y agoRather the cool stuff is made by the Chinese and Koreans, although sometimes according to American designs.
- Synaesthesia 10y agoThe main reason why "cool stuff" is made in America is because of massive government subsidy to the computer industry in the 50's, 60's and thanks to publically funded research (Bell labs, PARC etc). Again in the 80's under Reagan there was big investment in the computer industry as they recognized that Japan was starting to take the lead in tech industry.
- wcunning 10y agoMy understanding is that both Bell Labs and PARC were owned and operated solely by large corporations (AT&T and Xerox, respectively). Do you have a source on government funding of either?
- genericacct 10y agoI Wouldn't be surprised if the DOD was the biggest customer for both.. "subsidy" doesn't mean they were owned or directly financed.
- ctrl-j 10y agoOwned? No, it doesn't mean that. Directly financed? I wouldn't call it a subsidy otherwise: https://www.google.com/search?q=subsidy&oq=subsidy https://www.google.com/search?q=subsidy&oq=subsidy
- marcoperaza 10y agoAnd then people in your country probably get all upset when things cost way more. See "ripoff Britain" or all of the controversy in Australia. Your politicians won't break you the hard truth, but the reason why you pay more is that it's more expensive to sell to you.
- izacus 10y agoAre you really claiming that expectation for a piece of hardware to work more than 2 years is something that hugely increases costs? We're not talking 15 years here. 2 years.
- marcoperaza 10y agoApple charges $99 for the two year warranty in the states. You get that "free" in Europe. Add in all of the other regulatory burdens, labor laws, and such, and it's very easy to see why things cost more in the rest of the Western world. As a perfect example, they're likely on the hook for many millions of dollars of repairs with this issue in the article in the EU. In the US, only the people that had the problem early on or bought the extended warranty are covered. There ain't no free lunch.
- reitanqild 10y agoActually, looking at Apples stock performance I'd easily say that this is just about demanding normal decency from Apple. They come to Europe to sell phones and we demand that they compete on the same terms as anyone else here. Edit: > they're likely on the hook for many millions of dollars of repairs with this issue in the article in the EU. They can expect no mercy ;-) They are big enough that they should know about key concepts like QA, continuous improvement and insurance.
- marcoperaza 10y agoThat's all fine and dandy, but it isn't free. That's the point I'm making.
- UlyssesSKrunk 10y agoYeah, as an American this sucks. My aunt had this issue and was similarly told to buy another iphone because the "1 year limited warranty doesn't cover this". Took less than 5 minutes on the phone for her to get her money back through amex. Chargebacks are a godsend to us unprotected American consumers. I doubt the chargeback hurt apple much, but any little extra expense to them makes me happy.