5 ms·

Swiss bank secrecy is in part what allows criminals and dictators around the world to ruin and enslave entire nations for money.

eli 10y ago
Is that still the case? I thought Swiss secrecy isn't what it used to be. Anyway, some people would argue that strong privacy protections are a good thing even if they help bad guys.
- dominotw 10y ago
  Don't you think they can just wipe the slate clean of decades of money laundering with zero consequences? What about millions of lives that were lost/affected by this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money_in_Swiss_banks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money...
  - zigzigzag 10y ago
    What about the people who actually did it or allowed it in those countries? Aren't they the ones to blame?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- microtherion 10y ago
  According to Swiss bankers, thanks to the FATCA agreement, the best place to do shady banking these days is… the US (specifically Delaware).
magoon 10y ago
You could make the same invalid argument for encryption.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  No you can't, encryption doesn't have awareness or morals. The Swiss made their fortune on the misfortune of others from Nazi gold to modern dictators they have an entire industry around cleaning effectively blood money.
- pif 10y ago
  > You could make the same invalid argument for encryption. You could make the same invalid^H^H^H^H^H^H^H argument for encryption. FTFY
Kenji 10y ago
As someone who has worked at a Swiss bank: This might have applied a couple of decades ago. Especially in the last decade, Swiss banks introduced rules to overcome this problem with international customers. Smaller banks started to turn down US customers right away (like the one I worked at). It has become dangerous for bank employees and banks themselves to support criminals like you mention. There is zero tolerance for money laundering. While it is far from perfect, the financial sector has matured in that regard.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  To my knowledge, these rules came from intense diplomatic pressure from the US, not from some internal realization that it wasn't ethical. I wouldn't be at all shocked if subtler approaches to dealing with tainted money have been adopted.
  - chmars 10y ago
    Yeah, and now US banks and Delaware-based entities are in the same business … cui bono?
- dominotw 10y ago
  What about all the damage that has been done? Indian politicians used it for decades to hide their money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money_in_Swiss_banks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money...
  - fdett 10y ago
    Did you even read the linked paragraph? The story has been debunked and the cited bank is HSBC. Not really what I would call a swiss bank...
    - dominotw 10y ago
      I did, did you? denial != debunking > it can be seen that bank deposits of Indians in Swiss banks have decreased from ` 23,373 crore in year 2006 to ` 9,295 crore in year 2010. > the share of Indians in the total bank deposits of citizens of all countries in Swiss banks has reduced from 0.29 per cent in 2006 to 0.13 per cent in 2010. You think they not culpable for the past because money got move around? Or that they are not guilty because the numbers are not astronomical. Why do you think India is bent on AEOI with the swiss. Just to spite them?
hkjgkjy 10y ago
And taking over the torch of tax evasion/financial privacy (two sides of the same coin?) is Bitcoin etc. Who needs a bank in Switzerland when you can just have a 50 character long private key?
- zdkl 10y ago
  In fact bitcoin makes it harder to conceal transactions from your peers. Wallets are pseudonymous and can be correlated to IRL identities if used similarly to traditional banking accounts/physical wallets. Just because you can't correlate identities doesn't mean you should expect the network to guard your "financial privacy".
david927 10y ago
I might have worked for the largest Swiss bank and was responsible for the software that ran their Financial Investigation Unit. This entire department had the mandate to investigate large deposits and accounts to ensure that there was no link to nefarious sources. The reasoning was that they would rather not have the income than be linked to any "criminal or dictator". I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and it definitely did happen, but Switzerland is no longer the place where dark money is hidden -- that's moved on.
rbcgerard 10y ago
There are two side of that coin - take WW2 for example - some Swiss banks catered to Germany helping expropriate and conceal their loot, while others played a role in safeguarding assets from illegal/immoral expropriation...in a sense you can't have one without the other...

eli 10y ago

Is that still the case? I thought Swiss secrecy isn't what it used to be. Anyway, some people would argue that strong privacy protections are a good thing even if they help bad guys.

dominotw 10y ago
Don't you think they can just wipe the slate clean of decades of money laundering with zero consequences? What about millions of lives that were lost/affected by this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money_in_Swiss_banks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money...
- zigzigzag 10y ago
  What about the people who actually did it or allowed it in those countries? Aren't they the ones to blame?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
microtherion 10y ago
According to Swiss bankers, thanks to the FATCA agreement, the best place to do shady banking these days is… the US (specifically Delaware).

magoon 10y ago

You could make the same invalid argument for encryption.

dogma1138 10y ago
No you can't, encryption doesn't have awareness or morals. The Swiss made their fortune on the misfortune of others from Nazi gold to modern dictators they have an entire industry around cleaning effectively blood money.
pif 10y ago
> You could make the same invalid argument for encryption. You could make the same invalid^H^H^H^H^H^H^H argument for encryption. FTFY

Kenji 10y ago

As someone who has worked at a Swiss bank: This might have applied a couple of decades ago. Especially in the last decade, Swiss banks introduced rules to overcome this problem with international customers. Smaller banks started to turn down US customers right away (like the one I worked at). It has become dangerous for bank employees and banks themselves to support criminals like you mention. There is zero tolerance for money laundering. While it is far from perfect, the financial sector has matured in that regard.

ceejayoz 10y ago
To my knowledge, these rules came from intense diplomatic pressure from the US, not from some internal realization that it wasn't ethical. I wouldn't be at all shocked if subtler approaches to dealing with tainted money have been adopted.
- chmars 10y ago
  Yeah, and now US banks and Delaware-based entities are in the same business … cui bono?
dominotw 10y ago
What about all the damage that has been done? Indian politicians used it for decades to hide their money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money_in_Swiss_banks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_black_money#Black_money...
- fdett 10y ago
  Did you even read the linked paragraph? The story has been debunked and the cited bank is HSBC. Not really what I would call a swiss bank...
  - dominotw 10y ago
    I did, did you? denial != debunking > it can be seen that bank deposits of Indians in Swiss banks have decreased from ` 23,373 crore in year 2006 to ` 9,295 crore in year 2010. > the share of Indians in the total bank deposits of citizens of all countries in Swiss banks has reduced from 0.29 per cent in 2006 to 0.13 per cent in 2010. You think they not culpable for the past because money got move around? Or that they are not guilty because the numbers are not astronomical. Why do you think India is bent on AEOI with the swiss. Just to spite them?

hkjgkjy 10y ago

And taking over the torch of tax evasion/financial privacy (two sides of the same coin?) is Bitcoin etc. Who needs a bank in Switzerland when you can just have a 50 character long private key?

zdkl 10y ago
In fact bitcoin makes it harder to conceal transactions from your peers. Wallets are pseudonymous and can be correlated to IRL identities if used similarly to traditional banking accounts/physical wallets. Just because you can't correlate identities doesn't mean you should expect the network to guard your "financial privacy".

david927 10y ago

I might have worked for the largest Swiss bank and was responsible for the software that ran their Financial Investigation Unit. This entire department had the mandate to investigate large deposits and accounts to ensure that there was no link to nefarious sources. The reasoning was that they would rather not have the income than be linked to any "criminal or dictator". I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and it definitely did happen, but Switzerland is no longer the place where dark money is hidden -- that's moved on.

rbcgerard 10y ago

There are two side of that coin - take WW2 for example - some Swiss banks catered to Germany helping expropriate and conceal their loot, while others played a role in safeguarding assets from illegal/immoral expropriation...in a sense you can't have one without the other...