5 ms·

Given how much these likely cost to make and that they're unmanned, makes me wonder how they plan to keep drone jackers from capturing them for ransom; especial

by nxzero 10y ago

Given how much these likely cost to make and that they're unmanned, makes me wonder how they plan to keep drone jackers from capturing them for ransom; especially given the NYT supplied that the hangar is in Alameda, Calif.

ddeck 10y ago
I wonder the same thing about autonomous trucks. There's likely to be a significant period between the first driver-less trucks transporting goods across unpopulated areas and the vehicles being competent enough to detect the fact that someone is unloading the vehicle and that that car sitting in front of you is not traffic, but is just there to make you stop while you are pilfered. The move from a crime involving people to one only involving property may well lower the bar to would be criminals.
- pjc50 10y ago
  I'd expect them to have a lot of surveillance cameras on for this reason. Also as dashcams for collision liability, especially for the first truck vs. cyclist death incident.
  - anotheryou 10y ago
    Right. I guess a lonely truck driver can not do much more than call the cops, a good alarm system might be sufficient.
    - artmageddon 10y ago
      Surely, of all the truck drivers in the nation, a small subset of them would be armed?
      - anotheryou 10y ago
        I'm in europe, few guns around here. Still I'd rather run/comply/hide than risk my life for 20t potatoes. To figure out which truck has the iPads and get away with them you'd need: - an insider to know the time and content of the truck - stop the truck - unload the truck at the spot (it will refuse to move your way) - deal with an alarm system (maybe lights and sirens) - get away and sell all the high value goods despite their serial numbers Should it become a problem we'll just ship all the boring stuff autonomously and the rest with a guard that needs no extra breaks and can sleep on the road.
      - cstejerean 10y ago
        Unlikely. At least not with a firearm. Carrying weapons across state lines is a legal nightmare due to the inconsistent state laws. Truck drivers also get stopped by the cops more often than your average driver so I can't imagine many would risk it.
- _up 10y ago
  I wonder how much Trucks will be needed in the future. We will probably also have self driving Palettes and Packages. Which will be routed directly from the producer to the consumer.
  - amenod 10y ago
    Sure, let's suppose that happens. Then as next optimization you will have detachable wheels and engine, because that way you can use them better. And because some Palettes and Packages go the same way, you might want to carry them on the same set of wheels and engine. See where I am going with this? ;)
    - _up 10y ago
      Aren't heavy trucks considered overpropotional bad for the Roads and would use more Tires (respirable dust) and produce more noise. I don't think there is that much inscentiv if you can't cut down on expensive drivers or tech. And the tech will get very cheap some day.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  About the trucks, you file a police complaint, and the police goes after the thieves. They may decide to ignore your complaint if it is rare, but will almost certainly not ignore if it becomes common. Just like they do with armed truck robberies today.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  As with most attacks, the human is the weak link. Self-driving trucks, and self-driving ships, will both reduce theft. You can't threaten and/or bribe the driver. No driver means no need for the driver to sleep or pee. There will be no limits on the driver's duty cycle, and hence less exposure hazards. No driver means no need to provide convenient controls for diversion.
- eksemplar 10y ago
  It would be fairly simple to have an alarm go off on cargo breaches. The first autonomous trucks will be convoys following a truck with an actual driver though.
belorn 10y ago
I was thinking the same, but then I thought about how extremely huge the ocean is and how hard it would be to find such drone. They could also adapt counter measures like painting it darker and make a smaller frame.
- nxzero 10y ago
  Which is why providing the hanger location seems dangerous to me; meaning why go to the trouble of snatching them anywhere in the world when you know their likely point of origin. Also, would not be suprised if the security on these are relaxed for bandwidth reasons, or if the command and control center might be easily compromised.
anotheryou 10y ago
It's small, maybe the chance of anyone finding it in the ocean and him beeing a pirate that want's to deal with that GPS tracker on board are slim.
DasIch 10y ago
Jacking drones for ransom from a company that works directly with the US government? That might work a few times but how long until the coast guard intervenes? Not to mention that you need a ship, probably multiple people and quite a bit of time to find such a drone, which I imagine you don't want to do too close to the coast. I doubt this can be done in an economical fashion especially considering opportunity costs. Anyone who's able to do this can probably get a more stable and higher income trafficking drugs.
ceejayoz 10y ago
Do something along the lines of what commerce raiders did in WWII - give every hundredth or so drone ship some concealed anti-ship missiles.
david-given 10y ago
Actually, a more realistic problem is damage caused by running into the things. They're basically logs floating awash. The ones I've seen have a small mast with a flag on them, and you could certainly fit them with a radar reflector, but they're still really low in the water and very hard to see. And they're certainly not smart enough to spot an oncoming vessel and take evasive action. Run into one in a fibreglass yacht and you could be having a very bad day.
notahacker 10y ago
Simplest solution is not to pay the ransom, which is a lot easier when it's a drone than a ship with crew. That eliminates the possibility that actually hunting for them becomes a viable business model unless you've got a high-value black market for any of the on-board tech, and I doubt they'll send many near the coast of Somalia or Mindanao where there's a relatively high density of pirates that might steal them out of sheer opportunism.

by nxzero 10y ago

ddeck 10y ago

I wonder the same thing about autonomous trucks. There's likely to be a significant period between the first driver-less trucks transporting goods across unpopulated areas and the vehicles being competent enough to detect the fact that someone is unloading the vehicle and that that car sitting in front of you is not traffic, but is just there to make you stop while you are pilfered. The move from a crime involving people to one only involving property may well lower the bar to would be criminals.

pjc50 10y ago
I'd expect them to have a lot of surveillance cameras on for this reason. Also as dashcams for collision liability, especially for the first truck vs. cyclist death incident.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  Right. I guess a lonely truck driver can not do much more than call the cops, a good alarm system might be sufficient.
  - artmageddon 10y ago
    Surely, of all the truck drivers in the nation, a small subset of them would be armed?
    - anotheryou 10y ago
      I'm in europe, few guns around here. Still I'd rather run/comply/hide than risk my life for 20t potatoes. To figure out which truck has the iPads and get away with them you'd need: - an insider to know the time and content of the truck - stop the truck - unload the truck at the spot (it will refuse to move your way) - deal with an alarm system (maybe lights and sirens) - get away and sell all the high value goods despite their serial numbers Should it become a problem we'll just ship all the boring stuff autonomously and the rest with a guard that needs no extra breaks and can sleep on the road.
    - cstejerean 10y ago
      Unlikely. At least not with a firearm. Carrying weapons across state lines is a legal nightmare due to the inconsistent state laws. Truck drivers also get stopped by the cops more often than your average driver so I can't imagine many would risk it.
_up 10y ago
I wonder how much Trucks will be needed in the future. We will probably also have self driving Palettes and Packages. Which will be routed directly from the producer to the consumer.
- amenod 10y ago
  Sure, let's suppose that happens. Then as next optimization you will have detachable wheels and engine, because that way you can use them better. And because some Palettes and Packages go the same way, you might want to carry them on the same set of wheels and engine. See where I am going with this? ;)
  - _up 10y ago
    Aren't heavy trucks considered overpropotional bad for the Roads and would use more Tires (respirable dust) and produce more noise. I don't think there is that much inscentiv if you can't cut down on expensive drivers or tech. And the tech will get very cheap some day.
marcosdumay 10y ago
About the trucks, you file a police complaint, and the police goes after the thieves. They may decide to ignore your complaint if it is rare, but will almost certainly not ignore if it becomes common. Just like they do with armed truck robberies today.
Zigurd 10y ago
As with most attacks, the human is the weak link. Self-driving trucks, and self-driving ships, will both reduce theft. You can't threaten and/or bribe the driver. No driver means no need for the driver to sleep or pee. There will be no limits on the driver's duty cycle, and hence less exposure hazards. No driver means no need to provide convenient controls for diversion.
eksemplar 10y ago
It would be fairly simple to have an alarm go off on cargo breaches. The first autonomous trucks will be convoys following a truck with an actual driver though.

belorn 10y ago

I was thinking the same, but then I thought about how extremely huge the ocean is and how hard it would be to find such drone. They could also adapt counter measures like painting it darker and make a smaller frame.

nxzero 10y ago
Which is why providing the hanger location seems dangerous to me; meaning why go to the trouble of snatching them anywhere in the world when you know their likely point of origin. Also, would not be suprised if the security on these are relaxed for bandwidth reasons, or if the command and control center might be easily compromised.

anotheryou 10y ago

It's small, maybe the chance of anyone finding it in the ocean and him beeing a pirate that want's to deal with that GPS tracker on board are slim.

DasIch 10y ago

Jacking drones for ransom from a company that works directly with the US government? That might work a few times but how long until the coast guard intervenes? Not to mention that you need a ship, probably multiple people and quite a bit of time to find such a drone, which I imagine you don't want to do too close to the coast. I doubt this can be done in an economical fashion especially considering opportunity costs. Anyone who's able to do this can probably get a more stable and higher income trafficking drugs.

ceejayoz 10y ago

Do something along the lines of what commerce raiders did in WWII - give every hundredth or so drone ship some concealed anti-ship missiles.

david-given 10y ago

Actually, a more realistic problem is damage caused by running into the things. They're basically logs floating awash. The ones I've seen have a small mast with a flag on them, and you could certainly fit them with a radar reflector, but they're still really low in the water and very hard to see. And they're certainly not smart enough to spot an oncoming vessel and take evasive action. Run into one in a fibreglass yacht and you could be having a very bad day.

notahacker 10y ago

Simplest solution is not to pay the ransom, which is a lot easier when it's a drone than a ship with crew. That eliminates the possibility that actually hunting for them becomes a viable business model unless you've got a high-value black market for any of the on-board tech, and I doubt they'll send many near the coast of Somalia or Mindanao where there's a relatively high density of pirates that might steal them out of sheer opportunism.