7 ms·

Giant Panda no longer an endangered species

202 points by justinv 10y ago

Grue3 10y ago
How long until I can eat a delicious panda steak?
- userbinator 10y ago
  Very long... 2K in total may not be endangered, but it's still a tiny population.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    A better understanding of how to get them to breed in captivity has been a big part of growing the population. I guess bootstrapping a population to be used for meat would be wildly unpopular, but it could probably be done in a way that didn't have much impact on the wild population or captive population that is used for conservation. Which I'm not arguing it is a good idea, just pointing out that growing the population partly involved figuring out better panda husbandry, which is the same knowledge you need to produce meat.
    - Grue3 10y ago
      Yeah, a good example would be bison. They almost went extinct, and there are only a few thousands of wild bison, and yet bison meat is commercially produced.
      - acjohnson55 10y ago
        The vast majority of these are bison-cow hybrids, interestingly: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#genetics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#genetics
    - HaloZero 10y ago
      I think pandas don't have a fast enough birth cycle for that.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        Oh I agree that it wouldn't be a very interesting enterprise as far as making money, I just think you could do it without having much negative impact on the conservation efforts.
richardw 10y ago
Awesome for the bears (really), but I'm annoyed that China doesn't do more to reduce demand for rhino horn, which is devastating the African rhino population for absolutely no reason. Black rhino population is down 95%+ since 1960. Other countries can definitely share the blame, but I would imagine China would be more sensitive to the issue since they have their own endangered species that we all celebrate.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Rhino horn is an essential ingredient in many Chinese medicines, while panda is not. Even though Chinese medicine is mostly bunk pseudoscience, enough people in China believe in it to create a crisis. The Chinese government is loath to reverse these beliefs, as it would mean investing a lot more money in real western medicine. In fact, Mao originally put forth TCM as a distraction from a serious lack of real medical resources in the 50s, from wiki: In 1950, Chairman Mao Zedong made a speech in support of traditional Chinese medicine which was influenced by political necessity.[11] Zedong believed he and the Chinese Communist Party should promote traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) but he did not personally believe in TCM and he didn't use it.[11] In 1952, the president of the Chinese Medical Association said that, "This One Medicine, will possess a basis in modern natural sciences, will have absorbed the ancient and the new, the Chinese and the foreign, all medical achievements—and will be China’s New Medicine!"[11] See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine
  - dspillett 10y ago
    > loath to reverse these beliefs, as it would mean investing a lot more money in real western medicine And more generally it could raise "what else that the government has been assuring us for the last X decades might also be wrong?" thoughts in the potentially-cynical-but-not-yet-actively-so amongst the general population.
    - dmix 10y ago
      Meh, they could spin it how ever they want. They're masters at that. The Chinese government has stopped harmful Chinese traditions on a number occasions without significant backlash. Especially anything that challenged their control. Just look at the suppression of religions, ethnic cultures, and many other traditions throughout China: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/3948-commentary-6-on-how-the-chinese-communist-party-destroyed-traditional-culture/full/ http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/3948-commentary-6-on-how-the...
kelukelugames 10y ago
I love the first image. Panda wants high five! :D http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production/_91026223_gettyimages-594359398.jpg http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production...
okket 10y ago
For every good news... Eastern gorilla now critically endangered while giant panda situation improves https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-gorilla-critically-endangered-illegal-hunting-iucn-red-list https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-...
- dmix 10y ago
  China is capable of doing this now that they have wrenched themselves out of poverty. Africa has hardly even begun to make significant progress and that is largely a prerequisite for these conservation programs to be functional. They need both capital and strong rule of law to enforce it. Poaching and black markets are quite effective in dysfunctional states and/or places with questionable ethical bases of cultures in regards to animal exploitation (traditional justifications, deprioritization towards longstanding human issues, rerouting of funding to corrupt officials, etc, etc). Hopefully Congo and other surrounding countries manages to deal with this problem. Gorillas are some of the most interesting and intelligent animals on the planet and heavily relevant to us understanding our own human history. Maybe there aren't many people like Jane Goodall left with influence in the local governments to protect them like in the old British colonial days. I remember reading how she married a local politician who invested quite a bit in creating large Gorilla habitats.
andrewclunn 10y ago
So how long until I can order them from Panda Express?
- frozenport 10y ago
  Never, Panda Express isn't authentic Chinese food. They'd probably serve you a Grizzly Bear with stripes.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gcb0 10y ago
great! can finally answer if they taste good now!
Fiahil 10y ago
I'm not sure our settings for considering endangered species are quite right. Someone told me a long time ago that "[...] like any other wild animals, their biggest threat comes from mankind". With 2000 giant pandas alive and 7.5 billion bipeds, yeah, that's about right. I think we've profoundly failed as a species. Apart from bringing almost all living things on the brink of extinction, and nudge about every stable ecosystem that was prospering before us, what have we done? What kind of prowess have we achieved? Did we land on another planet yet? Did we built a cohesive hive mind shared between every individuals alive? Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right now, that would be alright. Problem is, humans tends to get nervous when you apply natural selection to them. Eating cows? No problem. Getting chased by something with large teeth? Nope nope nope nope.
- duncan_bayne 10y ago
  https://www.ourworldindata.org/roser/presentation/until%202015/June2014OnlinePresentation/Static_Images/Life-expectancy-at-birth-in-England-1540-2011-%E2%80%93-Max-Roser.png https://www.ourworldindata.org/roser/presentation/until%2020... http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee-5lN5oDoQ/Uqx4teGXB0I/AAAAAAAAAdI/z0QkfOx6YWY/s1600/Poverty.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee-5lN5oDoQ/Uqx4teGXB0I/AAAAAAAAAd... http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/images/drinking/history-graph.jpg http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/images/drinking/history-grap... If that's your idea of 'profoundly failed', I'd love to know what your idea of success is.
- djrogers 10y ago
  > Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right now, that would be alright. You gonna volunteer? Or just round up the others who you deem unworthy?
whyenot 10y ago
This is great news, but mountain gorillas were also moved from endangered to critically endangered status by IUCN. ALL of humanity's closest relatives are either critically endangered (the two species of orangutans and two species of gorillas), or endangered (bonbos and chmipanzees).
asimjalis 10y ago
Extinction happens not because people consume the animal but because they don’t. For example, the cow and the chicken are at no risk of going extinct because they are consumed.
- richardw 10y ago
  Dodo? Was primarily a source of food. Went extinct because preservation was not a priority (or, I assume, farming them since chickens might have been easier). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans
  - bhandziuk 10y ago
    Same with bison in North America. It was quite close for many years.

202 points by justinv 10y ago

Grue3 10y ago

How long until I can eat a delicious panda steak?

userbinator 10y ago
Very long... 2K in total may not be endangered, but it's still a tiny population.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  A better understanding of how to get them to breed in captivity has been a big part of growing the population. I guess bootstrapping a population to be used for meat would be wildly unpopular, but it could probably be done in a way that didn't have much impact on the wild population or captive population that is used for conservation. Which I'm not arguing it is a good idea, just pointing out that growing the population partly involved figuring out better panda husbandry, which is the same knowledge you need to produce meat.
  - Grue3 10y ago
    Yeah, a good example would be bison. They almost went extinct, and there are only a few thousands of wild bison, and yet bison meat is commercially produced.
    - acjohnson55 10y ago
      The vast majority of these are bison-cow hybrids, interestingly: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#genetics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#genetics
  - HaloZero 10y ago
    I think pandas don't have a fast enough birth cycle for that.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Oh I agree that it wouldn't be a very interesting enterprise as far as making money, I just think you could do it without having much negative impact on the conservation efforts.

richardw 10y ago

Awesome for the bears (really), but I'm annoyed that China doesn't do more to reduce demand for rhino horn, which is devastating the African rhino population for absolutely no reason. Black rhino population is down 95%+ since 1960. Other countries can definitely share the blame, but I would imagine China would be more sensitive to the issue since they have their own endangered species that we all celebrate.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Rhino horn is an essential ingredient in many Chinese medicines, while panda is not. Even though Chinese medicine is mostly bunk pseudoscience, enough people in China believe in it to create a crisis. The Chinese government is loath to reverse these beliefs, as it would mean investing a lot more money in real western medicine. In fact, Mao originally put forth TCM as a distraction from a serious lack of real medical resources in the 50s, from wiki: In 1950, Chairman Mao Zedong made a speech in support of traditional Chinese medicine which was influenced by political necessity.[11] Zedong believed he and the Chinese Communist Party should promote traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) but he did not personally believe in TCM and he didn't use it.[11] In 1952, the president of the Chinese Medical Association said that, "This One Medicine, will possess a basis in modern natural sciences, will have absorbed the ancient and the new, the Chinese and the foreign, all medical achievements—and will be China’s New Medicine!"[11] See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine
- dspillett 10y ago
  > loath to reverse these beliefs, as it would mean investing a lot more money in real western medicine And more generally it could raise "what else that the government has been assuring us for the last X decades might also be wrong?" thoughts in the potentially-cynical-but-not-yet-actively-so amongst the general population.
  - dmix 10y ago
    Meh, they could spin it how ever they want. They're masters at that. The Chinese government has stopped harmful Chinese traditions on a number occasions without significant backlash. Especially anything that challenged their control. Just look at the suppression of religions, ethnic cultures, and many other traditions throughout China: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/3948-commentary-6-on-how-the-chinese-communist-party-destroyed-traditional-culture/full/ http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/3948-commentary-6-on-how-the...

kelukelugames 10y ago

I love the first image. Panda wants high five! :D http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production/_91026223_gettyimages-594359398.jpg http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production...

okket 10y ago

For every good news... Eastern gorilla now critically endangered while giant panda situation improves https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-gorilla-critically-endangered-illegal-hunting-iucn-red-list https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-...

dmix 10y ago
China is capable of doing this now that they have wrenched themselves out of poverty. Africa has hardly even begun to make significant progress and that is largely a prerequisite for these conservation programs to be functional. They need both capital and strong rule of law to enforce it. Poaching and black markets are quite effective in dysfunctional states and/or places with questionable ethical bases of cultures in regards to animal exploitation (traditional justifications, deprioritization towards longstanding human issues, rerouting of funding to corrupt officials, etc, etc). Hopefully Congo and other surrounding countries manages to deal with this problem. Gorillas are some of the most interesting and intelligent animals on the planet and heavily relevant to us understanding our own human history. Maybe there aren't many people like Jane Goodall left with influence in the local governments to protect them like in the old British colonial days. I remember reading how she married a local politician who invested quite a bit in creating large Gorilla habitats.

andrewclunn 10y ago

So how long until I can order them from Panda Express?

frozenport 10y ago
Never, Panda Express isn't authentic Chinese food. They'd probably serve you a Grizzly Bear with stripes.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

gcb0 10y ago

great! can finally answer if they taste good now!

Fiahil 10y ago

I'm not sure our settings for considering endangered species are quite right. Someone told me a long time ago that "[...] like any other wild animals, their biggest threat comes from mankind". With 2000 giant pandas alive and 7.5 billion bipeds, yeah, that's about right. I think we've profoundly failed as a species. Apart from bringing almost all living things on the brink of extinction, and nudge about every stable ecosystem that was prospering before us, what have we done? What kind of prowess have we achieved? Did we land on another planet yet? Did we built a cohesive hive mind shared between every individuals alive? Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right now, that would be alright. Problem is, humans tends to get nervous when you apply natural selection to them. Eating cows? No problem. Getting chased by something with large teeth? Nope nope nope nope.

duncan_bayne 10y ago
https://www.ourworldindata.org/roser/presentation/until%202015/June2014OnlinePresentation/Static_Images/Life-expectancy-at-birth-in-England-1540-2011-%E2%80%93-Max-Roser.png https://www.ourworldindata.org/roser/presentation/until%2020... http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee-5lN5oDoQ/Uqx4teGXB0I/AAAAAAAAAdI/z0QkfOx6YWY/s1600/Poverty.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee-5lN5oDoQ/Uqx4teGXB0I/AAAAAAAAAd... http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/images/drinking/history-graph.jpg http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/images/drinking/history-grap... If that's your idea of 'profoundly failed', I'd love to know what your idea of success is.
djrogers 10y ago
> Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right now, that would be alright. You gonna volunteer? Or just round up the others who you deem unworthy?

whyenot 10y ago

This is great news, but mountain gorillas were also moved from endangered to critically endangered status by IUCN. ALL of humanity's closest relatives are either critically endangered (the two species of orangutans and two species of gorillas), or endangered (bonbos and chmipanzees).

asimjalis 10y ago

Extinction happens not because people consume the animal but because they don’t. For example, the cow and the chicken are at no risk of going extinct because they are consumed.

richardw 10y ago
Dodo? Was primarily a source of food. Went extinct because preservation was not a priority (or, I assume, farming them since chickens might have been easier). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans
- bhandziuk 10y ago
  Same with bison in North America. It was quite close for many years.