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I'm willing to bet that he didn't pose any danger to these people other than having the gall to publicly harbor opinions they are uncomfortable with. In other

I'm willing to bet that he didn't pose any danger to these people other than having the gall to publicly harbor opinions they are uncomfortable with. In other words, diversity does not extend to diversity of opinion.

rtpg 10y ago
So what? The talk organizers were faced with a dilemma: either keep Crawford and lose a bunch of other speakers or lose Crawford but keep others I do think clarification is needed, but I could see "being a jerk " as a legit reason to not want to associate with someone. People do the same with people like Torvalds Being unliked is also a reason that people won't want to associate with you.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  >Being unliked is also a reason that people won't want to associate with you. Not a good reason.
- CrLf 10y ago
  Maybe perhaps they should instead opt to lose these "others"? I'm unsure as to who the "jerks" really are in this situation.
  - jrs235 10y ago
    The whole thing feels like "reverse bullying" to me.
    - gnarbarian 10y ago
      It's just normal bullying.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  Being a speaker at the same event is hardly being forced to associate with someone, nor indeed a reason to attempt to publicly repudiate them. Additionally, in my experience Linus Tovalds is not a jerk. Is this something you sense you get by reading email threads? Perhaps you associate a lack of politeness and deference with being a jerk, but it really isn't the same.
  - thomasfoster96 10y ago
    > Perhaps you associate a lack of politeness and deference with being a jerk, but it really isn't the same. I would certainly associate those two attributes with being a jerk.
    - angry_octet 10y ago
      It's hard without specific examples, but brusque or somewhat impolite generally seem common. For example, someone asserts something technical in a strong way, lacking technical insight, or re-animating a zombie topic. The response is often short and somewhat acerbic. To be honest, replying in a sensitive way, with references to past converations, takes a long time. I would contrast this with jerk as being someone who deliberately disregards the comfort and feelings of others to satisfy themselves: the queue jumper, Steve Jobs, someone who humiliates people on minimum wage, who doesn't re-rack the weights at the gym, who parks in the disabled car park.
    - ori_b 10y ago
      I don't. In fact, the opposite: I find overly deferential people difficult to work with. I'd prefer to work with someone that is going to call me an idiot when I do something dumb than someone who will keep their mouth shut and work around me -- Letting me do stupid things without correction is unpleasant. And having people waste time trying to make me feel better or whatever just annoys me. Besides, reading a good insult is just plain fun. Especially if I know the person. (And no, Linus tends not to flame people he doesn't know.)
  - bryanrasmussen 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure lack of politeness is one of the defining traits of a jerk, yes. Which I'm quite aware of because as a lot of programmers I am something of a jerk.
- minusSeven 10y ago
  Why can't we all just be a professional and move on ?
  - thescribe 10y ago
    Because we all adopted codes of conduct that assume we're easily agitated children, and then took them seriously.
- ufmace 10y ago
  So tolerance and diversity are apparently only good things if they're applied to the Right People with the Right Opinions.
  - gnarbarian 10y ago
    Tolerance and Diversity when it tips the scale toward their agenda, Shaming, Boycotts, Twitter smear campaigns, and threats to employers when it doesn't.
  - vor_ 10y ago
    If tolerance and diversity are good things, a position that is intolerant or anti-diversity would be a bad thing.
- gcb0 10y ago
  i would lose the bunch that can't hold their side in a ideological argument about their work and instead resort to ad hominem
- tobltobs 10y ago
  I do not understand how banning people due to some unproved, anonym accusations will result in a more inclusive society. Actually it sounds like a surefire way to achieve the antipode.

rtpg 10y ago

So what? The talk organizers were faced with a dilemma: either keep Crawford and lose a bunch of other speakers or lose Crawford but keep others I do think clarification is needed, but I could see "being a jerk " as a legit reason to not want to associate with someone. People do the same with people like Torvalds Being unliked is also a reason that people won't want to associate with you.

ktRolster 10y ago
>Being unliked is also a reason that people won't want to associate with you. Not a good reason.
CrLf 10y ago
Maybe perhaps they should instead opt to lose these "others"? I'm unsure as to who the "jerks" really are in this situation.
- jrs235 10y ago
  The whole thing feels like "reverse bullying" to me.
  - gnarbarian 10y ago
    It's just normal bullying.
angry_octet 10y ago
Being a speaker at the same event is hardly being forced to associate with someone, nor indeed a reason to attempt to publicly repudiate them. Additionally, in my experience Linus Tovalds is not a jerk. Is this something you sense you get by reading email threads? Perhaps you associate a lack of politeness and deference with being a jerk, but it really isn't the same.
- thomasfoster96 10y ago
  > Perhaps you associate a lack of politeness and deference with being a jerk, but it really isn't the same. I would certainly associate those two attributes with being a jerk.
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    It's hard without specific examples, but brusque or somewhat impolite generally seem common. For example, someone asserts something technical in a strong way, lacking technical insight, or re-animating a zombie topic. The response is often short and somewhat acerbic. To be honest, replying in a sensitive way, with references to past converations, takes a long time. I would contrast this with jerk as being someone who deliberately disregards the comfort and feelings of others to satisfy themselves: the queue jumper, Steve Jobs, someone who humiliates people on minimum wage, who doesn't re-rack the weights at the gym, who parks in the disabled car park.
  - ori_b 10y ago
    I don't. In fact, the opposite: I find overly deferential people difficult to work with. I'd prefer to work with someone that is going to call me an idiot when I do something dumb than someone who will keep their mouth shut and work around me -- Letting me do stupid things without correction is unpleasant. And having people waste time trying to make me feel better or whatever just annoys me. Besides, reading a good insult is just plain fun. Especially if I know the person. (And no, Linus tends not to flame people he doesn't know.)
- bryanrasmussen 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure lack of politeness is one of the defining traits of a jerk, yes. Which I'm quite aware of because as a lot of programmers I am something of a jerk.
minusSeven 10y ago
Why can't we all just be a professional and move on ?
- thescribe 10y ago
  Because we all adopted codes of conduct that assume we're easily agitated children, and then took them seriously.
ufmace 10y ago
So tolerance and diversity are apparently only good things if they're applied to the Right People with the Right Opinions.
- gnarbarian 10y ago
  Tolerance and Diversity when it tips the scale toward their agenda, Shaming, Boycotts, Twitter smear campaigns, and threats to employers when it doesn't.
- vor_ 10y ago
  If tolerance and diversity are good things, a position that is intolerant or anti-diversity would be a bad thing.
gcb0 10y ago
i would lose the bunch that can't hold their side in a ideological argument about their work and instead resort to ad hominem
tobltobs 10y ago
I do not understand how banning people due to some unproved, anonym accusations will result in a more inclusive society. Actually it sounds like a surefire way to achieve the antipode.