13 ms·

Reading the comments to the story (on the Buzzfeed site), one sees the dichotomy between younger residents and longtime residents. (I've been here about 20 yea

by mturmon 10y ago

Reading the comments to the story (on the Buzzfeed site), one sees the dichotomy between younger residents and longtime residents. (I've been here about 20 years.) The latter tend to give all kinds of arguments about why owning a car is necessary, including safety, convenience, and cost. And they may be right -- for them. They live in the hills of a relatively remote area, like La Crescenta or Burbank or Chatsworth, and have Sunday brunch at some place in the Valley, and drive to Costco to fill up a freezer and a garage with goods, and drive to their dentist, doctor, and gym across town as well. It's a whole series of decisions, and it locks down tighter and tighter. But newer residents are showing that a different way of life is possible, by making all these decisions differently. It's fantastic. It has changed the streetscape a lot, as various local enclaves spring up to offer services within walking or cycling distance, or near to transit. But the gap between these two lifestyles really makes for some major disconnects around subjects like housing development along thoroughfares, density of development, parking, and bike lanes.

api 10y ago
What's really insane to me is that all the walkable cities are out East and get run over by a glacier for half the year. If there's anywhere where walking and biking and taking transit should be preferred it's LA. It's beautiful almost year round.
- throwawayawaya 10y ago
  San fran is a supremely walkable city.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    ...except for the hills and, depending on your point of view, lurking vagrants/robbers/poopers. Some of us prefer our walks without the aroma of fresh human feces.
    - arjie 10y ago
      None of that in Portola and the Excelsior. Ingleside, too. I've also found Bernal Heights quite pleasant.
  - what_ever 10y ago
    I wouldn't call it "supremely" walkable but yeah it is walkable.
neffy 10y ago
Exactly - it really depends on where you live/work, but LA's a surprisingly nice city for cycling in. It almost never rains, the Bus's all have bicycle carriers for emergency punctures/Hollywood, and the cars are rarely going fast enough to be a problem. The bicycle theft problem is also much less than usual, since not that many know how to ride a bicycle.
- nicky0 10y ago
  > Bus's all have bicycle carriers for emergency punctures/Hollywood Can you elaborate on the Hollywood part?
  - darkr 10y ago
    Hills I guess?
  - neffy 10y ago
    As darkr says. Most of LA is really flat, and perfect for cycling, but those hills were just annoying. Fun coming back though.
    - cardiffspaceman 10y ago
      Hollywood is hillier than Van Nuys, which brings me to ask, what is it like exactly to go over the hill (i.e. go between Downtown LA and The Valley) on a bike?
      - harmmonica 10y ago
        If you ride a bike regularly for exercise the ride itself wouldn't be too extreme because the hills are not that steep for a fit cyclist, but for those of us who only ride in the flats it'd be a brutal ride over the hills. That said even if you're fit, the main roads that go over the hills are not particularly bicycle friendly because usually it's either cars sitting in traffic or cars driving aggressively because there's a break in the traffic or cars driving aggressively trying to beat the traffic. There are a few less-trafficked routes but those are windy with Waze drivers driving, you guessed it, aggressively. If you go west of the major LA hills to Topanga and above Malibu there is a vibrant weekend cyclist community that only has to deal with... aggressive drivers in fashionable cars out joy riding (I jest somewhat but that area is one of the most popular with serious and casual cyclists (lotta spandex up in that piece!)).
shams93 10y ago
My friend got cancer so I lent her my car and haven't been driving for a few months now, I grew up here in LA so its always been seen as a disaster to not have a car. but even to get to music gigs it hasn't been a problem. I do use uber for some things but because I live close to a metro station its easy to get to downtown and then take any of the lines to get up to general areas, then if I need to get to a more remote place I uber over from the station. The combination of Uber/Lyft and the stations enables me to get anywhere I need to go in LA without a car, even late night recording sessions in Hollywood, I live in a good location so its not costly to use Uber for the times when I have to be out later than the train runs.
- analog31 10y ago
  If I may ask, how does Uber/Lift work for musicians who play larger instruments? I'm a double bassist. For now, playing music is pretty much my main use of a car. Can you request a bigger car?
cs702 10y ago
I suspect the breakdown is not only between younger and longtime residents, but also between those who have or don't have a family (i.e., children) at home. My perception and experience is that parents need vehicles of a more permanent nature and drive far more frequently/extensively than non-parents.
alphonsegaston 10y ago
Any recommendations for neighborhoods where living car free is easy/enjoyable?
- spotman 10y ago
  West LA has a great bike trail system and you never need to go out of a 1-3 mile radius for anything. Venice, Santa Monica, culver city, Mar vista etc
untog 10y ago
That's because young people don't have families. You see this play out with every generation. I read an article recently that incredulously reported that Millenials - the car rejecting generation! - have started buying cars. Of course they have, because they're coming into the age where they get married, have kids and move to the suburbs. So, you're right, in that this is a young/old split. But don't expect it to persist as the young become old. EDIT: the more I think about it, the more interested I'll be to see if there is, in fact, a trend in the opposite direction. The suburbs are a total compromise - close to job centers, retail facilities, etc etc, while far enough from city centers to be affordable. The coming era of remote work and efficient delivery services might mean that living further away from the city makes more sense. But there are a lot of caveats in that.
- andys627 10y ago
  Sources?
  - untog 10y ago
    I can't even remember if this was the article I read, but a quick Google of "millennials buying cars" returns: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/forget-stereotypes-millennials-are-buying-cars-survey-says-n553066 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/forget-stereotypes-mil...
    - noobermin 10y ago
      Not very strong evidence. Essentially, it says that Millennials are more likely to buy a car in the next 12 months than people 30-50 and people 50+...right because presumably such other groups already own cars?
  - manyxcxi 10y ago
    I'm an anecdote. Wife and 3 kids (the oldest is 3 1/2) and about a year ago I sold my truck so we're down to 1 SUV for the family. I was able to do this because the office space I moved in to is only 4mi from our house so I ride my bicycle or my motorcycle. I know a motorcycle is technically cheating in a way, but it gets 45mpg, means I never have to ride share, and costs me 1/6th as much to insure as the $55k truck did. We live about 14mi south of downtown Portland- which has pretty good public transport, but means we've got pretty piss poor options if you don't want to spend 2+ hours getting downtown. My gym is 2 blocks from the office, we chose our suburb neighborhood because there's literally a dozen parks and playgrounds within walking/biking distance for toddlers. We, as a family, absolutely need the car for 99% of things. Me, as a 34 year old guy going about his daily non-family business, can get by even in the 'burbs without a car.
stevejobscousin 10y ago
Nobody sees "dichtonomy", because nobody understands what the fuck this is and nobody uses it in real life. Actually, even Google Chrome marks it as a mistake. When you live in the motherfucking LA, you fucking drive a car. If you o not like it, go to Manhattan, and why not - Europe, where people have this shit figured out. Some of them even drive bikes, can you imagine that?
nononosisisi 10y ago
I live in nyc and owning a car is totally worth it. Today I drove to costco and sams club for some shopping. Tomorrow I'll drive to the jfk airport to pick up family. The freedom and convenience I get from it makes owning a car great. Even in NYC. Sure, I can go without a car but frankly it is a pain in the ass to go to costco or to the airport without. Convenience is my highest priority and owning a car is very convenient.
- jseliger 10y ago
  Tomorrow I'll drive to the jfk airport to pick up family. The freedom and convenience I get from it makes owning a car great You especially like it because most cities (including NYC w/ street parking in most boroughs) subsidize the cost of parking: http://www.accessmagazine.org/articles/spring-2016/cutting-the-cost-of-parking-requirements http://www.accessmagazine.org/articles/spring-2016/cutting-t.... The cost of free parking is high.
- exhilaration 10y ago
  Why the downvotes, folks? Don't judge, s/he's allowed to enjoy the automobile lifestyle.
base698 10y ago
There is a third group of people to which I belong: Don't use car for normal work life but use it for weekend adventures. I'm a bike commuter during the week but on weekends I drive more than 100 miles one way. Doing this with Uber or zipcar was cost prohibitive but I did consider it and even try it.
gcb0 10y ago
you're completely reaching without any data.
JBlue42 10y ago
Have been here for 7 years and also see the split between transplants and those that grew up here and are just used to horrendous commutes. I drive though and wish I didn't. The start to my day has been far less stressful when taking a train, bus, or carpooling. I've kept my car around because the nature of working in LA means that you might go from working one mile from home to somewhere all the way across the city. People say 'live closer to work' but it's kind of hard when you have an area you like living in at a (relatively) affordable price. This ties in with the families/homeowners. Work moves, or closes down, and you might end up having to drive where it goes or where you can get a job. It's hard to live centrally and public transit is still in its infancy here. The subway is getting expanded, though I feel the hub and spoke pattern doesn't help us as a city, and the stations are too widely spread apart to make it worthwhile to walk to. The buses...well, it would take me an hour, with one change, to make it 2.5 miles to where my work currently is. That's if it comes on time (which it never does). There aren't dedicated bus lanes, and people would protest if they cut down a lane on some of the major streets to make it so. Biking is an option but I'm not really into the risk over reward with that at this time. Too many people I know have been doored or hit by cars (at least one a hit and run). Police don't enforce traffic laws and that makes it less safe for cars, bikes, and pedestrians. Lyft/Uber have been a godsend though. Whether carpooling to other places in the city, and sometimes to work (my coworkers all leave at different times so it's hard to do regularly), and especially for safe nights out, everyone in my age group (mid-20s to 30s) heavily use the apps. I only use Lyft due to having some moral opposition to Uber, plus their drivers always seem better and not just former taxi drivers (who were shit when they were taxi drivers). I used to take taxis prior to the apps but always had trouble with them showing up at scheduled times and knowing where to actually go. So, for now, I'll drive to work and feel a little guilty. I'll take Lyft and the subway when necessary. Still a sharp nope to the buses.

by mturmon 10y ago

api 10y ago

What's really insane to me is that all the walkable cities are out East and get run over by a glacier for half the year. If there's anywhere where walking and biking and taking transit should be preferred it's LA. It's beautiful almost year round.

throwawayawaya 10y ago
San fran is a supremely walkable city.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  ...except for the hills and, depending on your point of view, lurking vagrants/robbers/poopers. Some of us prefer our walks without the aroma of fresh human feces.
  - arjie 10y ago
    None of that in Portola and the Excelsior. Ingleside, too. I've also found Bernal Heights quite pleasant.
- what_ever 10y ago
  I wouldn't call it "supremely" walkable but yeah it is walkable.

neffy 10y ago

Exactly - it really depends on where you live/work, but LA's a surprisingly nice city for cycling in. It almost never rains, the Bus's all have bicycle carriers for emergency punctures/Hollywood, and the cars are rarely going fast enough to be a problem. The bicycle theft problem is also much less than usual, since not that many know how to ride a bicycle.

nicky0 10y ago
> Bus's all have bicycle carriers for emergency punctures/Hollywood Can you elaborate on the Hollywood part?
- darkr 10y ago
  Hills I guess?
- neffy 10y ago
  As darkr says. Most of LA is really flat, and perfect for cycling, but those hills were just annoying. Fun coming back though.
  - cardiffspaceman 10y ago
    Hollywood is hillier than Van Nuys, which brings me to ask, what is it like exactly to go over the hill (i.e. go between Downtown LA and The Valley) on a bike?
    - harmmonica 10y ago
      If you ride a bike regularly for exercise the ride itself wouldn't be too extreme because the hills are not that steep for a fit cyclist, but for those of us who only ride in the flats it'd be a brutal ride over the hills. That said even if you're fit, the main roads that go over the hills are not particularly bicycle friendly because usually it's either cars sitting in traffic or cars driving aggressively because there's a break in the traffic or cars driving aggressively trying to beat the traffic. There are a few less-trafficked routes but those are windy with Waze drivers driving, you guessed it, aggressively. If you go west of the major LA hills to Topanga and above Malibu there is a vibrant weekend cyclist community that only has to deal with... aggressive drivers in fashionable cars out joy riding (I jest somewhat but that area is one of the most popular with serious and casual cyclists (lotta spandex up in that piece!)).

shams93 10y ago

My friend got cancer so I lent her my car and haven't been driving for a few months now, I grew up here in LA so its always been seen as a disaster to not have a car. but even to get to music gigs it hasn't been a problem. I do use uber for some things but because I live close to a metro station its easy to get to downtown and then take any of the lines to get up to general areas, then if I need to get to a more remote place I uber over from the station. The combination of Uber/Lyft and the stations enables me to get anywhere I need to go in LA without a car, even late night recording sessions in Hollywood, I live in a good location so its not costly to use Uber for the times when I have to be out later than the train runs.

analog31 10y ago
If I may ask, how does Uber/Lift work for musicians who play larger instruments? I'm a double bassist. For now, playing music is pretty much my main use of a car. Can you request a bigger car?

cs702 10y ago

I suspect the breakdown is not only between younger and longtime residents, but also between those who have or don't have a family (i.e., children) at home. My perception and experience is that parents need vehicles of a more permanent nature and drive far more frequently/extensively than non-parents.

alphonsegaston 10y ago

Any recommendations for neighborhoods where living car free is easy/enjoyable?

spotman 10y ago
West LA has a great bike trail system and you never need to go out of a 1-3 mile radius for anything. Venice, Santa Monica, culver city, Mar vista etc

untog 10y ago

That's because young people don't have families. You see this play out with every generation. I read an article recently that incredulously reported that Millenials - the car rejecting generation! - have started buying cars. Of course they have, because they're coming into the age where they get married, have kids and move to the suburbs. So, you're right, in that this is a young/old split. But don't expect it to persist as the young become old. EDIT: the more I think about it, the more interested I'll be to see if there is, in fact, a trend in the opposite direction. The suburbs are a total compromise - close to job centers, retail facilities, etc etc, while far enough from city centers to be affordable. The coming era of remote work and efficient delivery services might mean that living further away from the city makes more sense. But there are a lot of caveats in that.

andys627 10y ago
Sources?
- untog 10y ago
  I can't even remember if this was the article I read, but a quick Google of "millennials buying cars" returns: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/forget-stereotypes-millennials-are-buying-cars-survey-says-n553066 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/forget-stereotypes-mil...
  - noobermin 10y ago
    Not very strong evidence. Essentially, it says that Millennials are more likely to buy a car in the next 12 months than people 30-50 and people 50+...right because presumably such other groups already own cars?
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  I'm an anecdote. Wife and 3 kids (the oldest is 3 1/2) and about a year ago I sold my truck so we're down to 1 SUV for the family. I was able to do this because the office space I moved in to is only 4mi from our house so I ride my bicycle or my motorcycle. I know a motorcycle is technically cheating in a way, but it gets 45mpg, means I never have to ride share, and costs me 1/6th as much to insure as the $55k truck did. We live about 14mi south of downtown Portland- which has pretty good public transport, but means we've got pretty piss poor options if you don't want to spend 2+ hours getting downtown. My gym is 2 blocks from the office, we chose our suburb neighborhood because there's literally a dozen parks and playgrounds within walking/biking distance for toddlers. We, as a family, absolutely need the car for 99% of things. Me, as a 34 year old guy going about his daily non-family business, can get by even in the 'burbs without a car.

stevejobscousin 10y ago

Nobody sees "dichtonomy", because nobody understands what the fuck this is and nobody uses it in real life. Actually, even Google Chrome marks it as a mistake. When you live in the motherfucking LA, you fucking drive a car. If you o not like it, go to Manhattan, and why not - Europe, where people have this shit figured out. Some of them even drive bikes, can you imagine that?

nononosisisi 10y ago

I live in nyc and owning a car is totally worth it. Today I drove to costco and sams club for some shopping. Tomorrow I'll drive to the jfk airport to pick up family. The freedom and convenience I get from it makes owning a car great. Even in NYC. Sure, I can go without a car but frankly it is a pain in the ass to go to costco or to the airport without. Convenience is my highest priority and owning a car is very convenient.

jseliger 10y ago
Tomorrow I'll drive to the jfk airport to pick up family. The freedom and convenience I get from it makes owning a car great You especially like it because most cities (including NYC w/ street parking in most boroughs) subsidize the cost of parking: http://www.accessmagazine.org/articles/spring-2016/cutting-the-cost-of-parking-requirements http://www.accessmagazine.org/articles/spring-2016/cutting-t.... The cost of free parking is high.
exhilaration 10y ago
Why the downvotes, folks? Don't judge, s/he's allowed to enjoy the automobile lifestyle.

base698 10y ago

There is a third group of people to which I belong: Don't use car for normal work life but use it for weekend adventures. I'm a bike commuter during the week but on weekends I drive more than 100 miles one way. Doing this with Uber or zipcar was cost prohibitive but I did consider it and even try it.

gcb0 10y ago

you're completely reaching without any data.

JBlue42 10y ago

Have been here for 7 years and also see the split between transplants and those that grew up here and are just used to horrendous commutes. I drive though and wish I didn't. The start to my day has been far less stressful when taking a train, bus, or carpooling. I've kept my car around because the nature of working in LA means that you might go from working one mile from home to somewhere all the way across the city. People say 'live closer to work' but it's kind of hard when you have an area you like living in at a (relatively) affordable price. This ties in with the families/homeowners. Work moves, or closes down, and you might end up having to drive where it goes or where you can get a job. It's hard to live centrally and public transit is still in its infancy here. The subway is getting expanded, though I feel the hub and spoke pattern doesn't help us as a city, and the stations are too widely spread apart to make it worthwhile to walk to. The buses...well, it would take me an hour, with one change, to make it 2.5 miles to where my work currently is. That's if it comes on time (which it never does). There aren't dedicated bus lanes, and people would protest if they cut down a lane on some of the major streets to make it so. Biking is an option but I'm not really into the risk over reward with that at this time. Too many people I know have been doored or hit by cars (at least one a hit and run). Police don't enforce traffic laws and that makes it less safe for cars, bikes, and pedestrians. Lyft/Uber have been a godsend though. Whether carpooling to other places in the city, and sometimes to work (my coworkers all leave at different times so it's hard to do regularly), and especially for safe nights out, everyone in my age group (mid-20s to 30s) heavily use the apps. I only use Lyft due to having some moral opposition to Uber, plus their drivers always seem better and not just former taxi drivers (who were shit when they were taxi drivers). I used to take taxis prior to the apps but always had trouble with them showing up at scheduled times and knowing where to actually go. So, for now, I'll drive to work and feel a little guilty. I'll take Lyft and the subway when necessary. Still a sharp nope to the buses.