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Latest Intel, AMD chips won't support Windows versions earlier than Windows 10
- cm2187 10y agoBut new x86 chips are backward compatible. What will happen if I install windows 7? Will Microsoft introduce a kill switch or am I just not going to take advantage of the new features?
- kyriakos 10y agoit will work just fine, you just won't get support from Microsoft and it Windows 7 will not use any of the newer processor features.
- cm2187 10y agoReading another article I wonder if the chipset won't be more of a problem. Like USB drivers.
- kyriakos 10y agomaybe you are right about Windows 7, but Windows 8/8.1 has the same driver model with Windows 10 so at least that won't be an issue. now why would anyone want to run Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 10 is unclear to me.
- cm2187 10y agoAgree. If they were making an adware and spyware free version of Windows 10, I would be more than happy to upgrade. I know Windows 10 enterprise is adware/spyware free, but as an individual I have no idea of how to get one.
- lagadu 10y agoMSDN subscription.
- cm2187 10y agoIsn't there a limit on how many licenses I can get? I have a few laptops and VMs around, it can go up pretty quickly.
- lagadu 10y agoNo limits on the amount of devices, though IIRC after using 10 different keys (for each version) you have to ask for a refresh. To be honest I'm also unsure on the details of how you can use the OSs you get from the MSDN license. edit: I checked my subscription, for enterprise editions you get 2 multiple activation keys. I've no idea how many activations these keys allow. It's worth noting that you get two for regular enterprise, 2 for the N edition and 2 more for the LTSB version. edit2: nevermind! Turns out that if you want to stay 100% legal the msdn subscription is pretty restrictive: > Many Visual Studio subscribers use a computer for mixed use—both design, development, testing, and demonstration of your programs (the use allowed under the Visual Studio subscription license) and some other use. Using the software in any other way, such as for doing email, playing games, or editing a document is another use and is not covered by the Visual Studio subscription license. When this happens, the underlying operating system must also be licensed normally by purchasing a regular copy of Windows such as the one that came with a new OEM PC.
- cm2187 10y agoI think I'll probably get one. Everything I do is kind of experimental and hacky (home DIY rather than professional programmer). So none of what I do really leaves testing!
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago> But new x86 chips are backward compatible. Broadly-speaking, yes, but older OSes may not support newer CPU and other hardware features, and at some point those features become essential to working at all. Plus, CPUs actually do drop features sometimes. In the case of Skylake, Windows 7 doesn't support xHCI, the new USB controller interface. Without USB, you won't have much luck doing anything.
- IANAD 10y ago>> Microsoft loves Linux! Right? > Right. Do I detect a note of sarcasm?
- pbz 10y agoYour sensor is indeed properly calibrated; carry on.
- jcbeard 10y agoSlightly mis-leading headline....bug it's direct from the register. tldr; the headline should read "Windows 10 is the only Windows OS that will support latest processors." Guess MS is tired of supporting 30 years of hardware with each OS release. Hopefully that'll free them up a bit to do more interesting stuff.
- quonn 10y ago> Guess MS is tired of supporting 30 years of hardware with each OS release. It seems they are supporting old hardware on each new OS. What they are not supporting is new hardware on an old OS.
- flamedoge 10y agoI'm pretty sure new hardware can run old OS. It's just new features won't be utilized.
- wvenable 10y agoYeah, that's forwards compatibility not backwards compatibility. In many cases, this situation is already here. My laptop came with Windows 8 and if I ran Windows 7 on it, it would work, but many of the newer power management and performance features wouldn't work.
- hiram112 10y agoInterestingly, I've been a hardcore Dell fan for many years with many tens of thousands of dollars in purchases - home and work. I bought an outlet Latitude two weeks ago. It came with Win 8 which is awful. It would not run Win 7, no matter how many tricks I tried (numerous driver issues). I do not want Win 10. The Dell is being returned, and I am buying my first ever personal MacBook (I'm done with Linux on the laptop, too - too busy these days to deal with the typical issues that have plagued Linux for 15 years now). I'm done with Microsoft and any company that wants to tie themselves to them: Dell, HP, Lenovo, Intel, etc.
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- ngold 10y agoSo loading win 7 ahould be no problem, it just won't be supported any longer?
- vidyesh 10y agoFrom the article > Microsoft holding back support is the xHCI USB controller in sixth-generation Skylake and seventh-generation Kaby Lake: Windows 7 doesn't support that USB hardware, so installing the operating system from a USB stick using those chips is tricky. Intel provides xHCI drivers for Windows 7 once it's up and running.
- kijin 10y agoAFAIK, consumer editions of Windows 7 never even officially came in a "USB stick" form factor. It has always been on a DVD. So the more salient question would be: is it possible to plug in a USB external ODD to a Kaby Lake laptop, pop the Windows 7 DVD in it, and install from it? Or is it just as "tricky" as installing from a USB stick?
- nikanj 10y agoHow would the usb ODD work without a working usb controller?
- nine_k 10y agoHow can one boot from an USB DVD then, sans an OS?
- userbinator 10y agoI don't know what the newer systems do, but on older ones that had USB boot support, the BIOS has a basic USB driver that lets even DOS apps access CD/DVD/USB media via the traditional INT 13H interface.
- creshal 10y ago
- delish 10y agoIn HN, the headline currently reads: Latest Intel, AMD chips will only run Windows 10 and Linux, BSD, OS X But on thereg it reads: Latest Intel, AMD chips will only run Windows 10... and Linux, BSD, OS X The ellipsis implies that Intel's and AMD's chips run other OSes too. In fact, according to thereg, they'll run "homebrew kernels", which I'm glad for. I don't want to be limited to Windows and Unix-derivatives. I agree with commenter jcbeard that the headline should be changed to "Windows 10 is the only Windows OS that will support latest processors", or something similar.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- random55643 10y agoLol, the ellipsis means... pause.
- theossuary 10y agoLol, the ellipsis can also mean... information is left out.
- mythz 10y ago> Why is Microsoft doing this? > Windows 10 must succeed at all costs. It's Windows 10 or bust. If you're buying a flash new machine, what a superb way for Microsoft to shoehorn its latest operating system onto it; that'll really help inflate its usage numbers.
- ivanca 10y agoFuck Microsoft, I been using Windows all my life but if I could jump to any other operative system with games and software support I would do it in a heartbeat.
- dingo_bat 10y agoAfter having used windows 10 for about a year, I feel confident in saying that if you don't want to use Windows 10, it is better to switch to Linux or something else you like, than using clearly inferior versions of windows. Most people want to stick with 7 just because of nostalgia, and it's good that intel is cutting them off.
- hobs 10y agoWell isn't that nice that you have decided that for everyone else. We want to stick with 7 because 8 was atrocious, and 10 doesnt offer enough improvements for the standard user to change the UI in useless ways.
- lsiebert 10y agoMeh I would have updated to 10 on my dual boot Window Linux Mint machine, but you need to have the latest updates on windows 7 to be able to even get 10, and even with the generous three days leeway I gave myself to back up, update, and roll back, I couldn't get updates working in time. I really don't see what reason there is to run windows for me, other then gaming, and even then, most of what I want to play I can get on os x or linux.
- SquareWheel 10y agoWhat was wrong with 8? I found the UI a significant improvement, even better than 10. The only qualm I had was the removal of the power button, but that was resolved in the 8.1 update.
- khedoros 10y agoInvisible hotspots to bring up necessary dialogs, settings split into multiple different places that used to be collected in one place, flat UI elements, two conflicting interfaces (tablet UI on a mouse-based device? bleh). Windows 7 fits in with my experience on Windows going back over 20 years. Windows 8 throws that away for something I think is a contradictory mish-mash. Windows 10 doesn't completely clean up the mess, and it adds other things that I don't like. If Microsoft removed the metro UI style, the tile interface, the Windows Store, Cortana, and forced updates (or allowed the user to disable those things), I'd be running Windows 10 now.
- vidyesh 10y agoFix the title please, lets not bring clickbaits on HN. Newest Intel & AMD chips will not work with any Windows version below 10.
- tomsmeding 10y agoIt's practically the title of the actual article.
- kyriakos 10y agobut even that title is not correct. it will work, just won't receive support for it.
- jxy 10y agoMicrosoft chooses not to support new Intel & AMD chips in Windows versions earlier than 10. The title makes it the fault of chip makers. Isn't it just a software problem?
- infodroid 10y agoWhat I understand is that Intel and AMD decided not to work on drivers for their new chips to support older Windows, aligning themselves with the new Microsoft support policy... Intel said: "Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core per Microsoft's support policy change". AMD said: "AMD's processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft’s software strategy". Microsoft are also holding back, for example by not supporting 7th gen xHCI USB controller on older versions of Windows. So it doesn't seem like it is Microsoft's choice alone. I think the current title (Latest Intel & AMD chips won't support Windows versions earlier than Windows 10) is not pointing blame at anyone, just saying that the chips are not going to be officially supported. Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112663/software/microsoft-made-em-do-it-the-latest-kaby-lake-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112663/software/microsoft-ma...
- Sylos 10y agoRationally speaking, yeah, it doesn't mean much more than that they won't work with it, independent of who's to blame, but I did initially still read it as if it was Intel's and AMD's fault, and I'm obviously not alone with that either. Better would have been like I've already used it: "Intel's and AMD's chips won't work with Windows 7/8" Then it's completely open why that is and the reader can make up their own mind.
- infodroid 10y agoI agree with you that "won't work with" is even more neutral than "won't support". But I think only the mods can change the title at this point.
- regularfry 10y ago"Fault" is one way of looking at it. However, another way is to say that it's apparently not commercially worth while to the chip makers to support generation N-1 of Microsoft's OS. That says something interesting about the market.
- omarforgotpwd 10y agoWhat a pain in the ass for people doing OS compatibility testing
- cwyers 10y agoUse a VM.
- LeoPanthera 10y agoWould this work? Doesn't a VM pass the CPU directly through to the client OS?
- binarycrusader 10y agoIt can, but it doesn't have to. And most of the compatibility issues here are in system chipsets, not so much the CPUs (unless you count the integrated graphics some have).
- wila 10y agoMost likely works. You can mask off the newer features on all previous cpus to make them look like an older model. Normally that kind of feature is preserved on newer products.
- oakwhiz 10y agoIn a VM the hardware is fake, and usually works on most OSes. The real hardware is the problem here, because it only has official drivers for Windows 10. The CPU is fine. Using a VM makes it more difficult to use some features of real hardware, even if it is still technically possible to pass real hardware into a VM. It's a usability issue. What people want is to have their favorite OS or OSes on the newest hardware. But sometimes the hardware and OS makers collude to make older tech obsolete.
- sandworm101 10y agoWhen microsoft is done shooting off its own feet, I've got a bridge to sell them. But I'm all for win10 atm. I just bought a new dirt-cheap netbook. The push for Win10 meant that even the cheapest of netbooks requires the muscle to run win10. The fact that mine never even booted into that OS is beside the point. Rather than a machine that runs win10 poorly, I've now got a very nice little linux mint box ... and a pile of Win10-related stickers.
- phire 10y agoWindows 7 is now in extended support. Microsoft are 100% within their rights to not support the new CPUs on it. But not adding Zen and Kaby Lake support to windows 8.1 is a little weird, it still has 16 months of mainstream support.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dnlrn 10y agoI don't get what the big deal is. Does Linux add support for newer Intel and AMD chips in old kernels? No. Does Apple add support for newer Intel and AMD chips in older versions of Mac OS? I'm sure no. So why does Microsoft have to do something the other companies aren't doing either? I mean it's not like they actively prevent older Windows versions on running on these chips, it's just that they don't add support for the newest chip features. Sometimes when I see these newspapers bashing Microsoft I question whether they even think about what they are writing before pressing the publish button. Headline: Microsoft is doing what all other OS companies are doing too.
- ekianjo 10y agoSometimes doing something different is expected when you are the market leader.
- Sylos 10y agoEspecially also when your market lead causes a lot of exclusivity like it does in the software world. I.e. many people have to run Windows to do their job and often even have to run Windows 7 specifically, but might still need new hardware in the future.
- Chronic9q 10y ago> many people have to run Windows to do their job and often even have to run Windows 7 specifically, but might still need new hardware in the future. Microsoft is under absolutely no obligation to support Windows 7. Those "many people" should and will be forced to upgrade, otherwise a substitute will appear and rake over their jobs/company/market.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y agoUnfortunately for the coherency of that argument, the same point applies to MS itself. Microsoft is under no obligation to cater to the needs of any customers whatsoever. Which is fine. MS can shoot itself in the head if it wants to. But there will be consequences for the company.
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- xbmcuser 10y agoIt is the other way around Microsoft wont support Windows 8.1 and older on newer processors.
- milesf 10y agoWon't happen. Microsoft has made threats like this before, and backed off at the last minute.
- rincebrain 10y agoI wouldn't take that bet this time. Microsoft's shown an aggressive willingness to break anything that gets in the way of Windows 10.
- milesf 10y agoNo, they are too beholden to large corporations who will not be railroaded into using an OS they don't need or cannot use for compatibility reasons. It may take some time, but eventually Microsoft will capitulate. They always capitulate. There's no sane business reason not to.
- static_noise 10y agoDoes this mean a) older Windows versions will not run at all on those chips? b) older Windows versions will still run but cause some problems? c) older Windows versions will run without problems or performance impediment compared to old chips but some new features are not supported? d) everything will work just as well but when problems occur Microsoft won't provide official support?
- lagadu 10y agoIt means it's untested. In reality it should be option d) but they're saying that if a) to c) eventually happen then you were warned. Also don't ever expect chipset drivers for those OSs.
- pavlov 10y agoWhen the AMD Opteron came out in 2003, did Windows 95 run on it? I don't think so. Windows 7 is seven years old. It's just a reality that commercial software that old doesn't get support, unless you're an enterprise customer willing to pay for the privilege.
- static_noise 10y agoThen should we consider Windows or other commerical software for anything designed to outlast a 5 year period?
- lagadu 10y agoWhat's the alternative? Old MacOS versions also don't support newer hardware, old Linux kernels neither. By your reasoning, no operating system should ever be considered for anything designed to outlast a 7 year period (which is windows' 7 age).
- creshal 10y ago> Old MacOS versions also don't support newer hardware Which is why nobody uses MacOS in production for anything but end user devices. > old Linux kernels neither They do. All major enterprise distributions backport drivers exactly for that reason – and unlike with Windows, you can update the kernel in place without having to touch any other part of your software stack. Your software won't care whether it's running on top of Linux 2.4 or 4.2, but it will care whether it's running on Windows 7 or Windows 10.
- pavlov 10y agoProbably not? I'd be perfectly happy to see BSD deployed more regularly in these kinds of environments.
- creshal 10y ago> When the AMD Opteron came out in 2003, did Windows 95 run on it? I don't think so. It did. That was the whole point of AMD64, as opposed to Itanium: It runs all the legacy crap you could possibly wish to.
- hsivonen 10y agoTo get an idea of what kind of grief arises from a legacy kernel on significantly newer hardware: XP doesn't know how to save and restore AVX register state across context switches. The cpuid instruction doesn't look at the OS, so AVX is detected as being available, but it doesn't work right. (This has been an actual problem for crypto code in Firefox.)
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y agoXP doesn't natively support hard disks with non-512-byte sectors, leading to performance degradation (and possibly more wear?) on modern, higher-capacity hard drives which use 4096-byte sectors and have to emulate 512-byte sectors for Windows XP's sake.
- brassic 10y agoVanilla Windows 7 doesn't support 4K sectors either. I discovered this when I unthinkingly replaced my laptop's failing disk with a 4K disk. Windows 7 installed itself from the recovery DVD, but would blue screen on the first reboot.
- userbinator 10y agoIf I remember correctly, Intel CPUs had support in hardware for automatically saving and restoring the CPU state (doing a task switch) since the 386, and there was a way to query the CPU for how big that state needs to be. That would've enabled automatic forward-compatibility, but I have a feeling that feature got broken sometime around the AMD64 timeframe (by AMD, not Intel.)
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoYeah but nobody used it - the task state segment was slow to write and read - so it was faster to push/pop registers. Pity - because this forward-compatibility argument might have convinced folks back then.
- snorrah 10y agoBit of a tangent, but that was a surprisingly readable article for TheRegister. They seemed very clickbaity with CAPITAL LETTER WORDS scattered around not so long ago. Are they now back to this more reasonable style in general or was this a fluke ?
- youdontknowtho 10y agoThis is clickbait.
- ihsw 10y agoWill the next Intel & AMD chips support Windows 10, or will we see a similar planned-obsolescence dance again? I'm asking to see whether this is part of a larger trend where compatibility is falling by the wayside or whether this is an isolated incident to kick the world up to modernity, and I am fully aware that it is difficult to predict the future. IMO Windows 10 really is an atrocious piece of software and forcing it onto people could backfire.
- graycat 10y agoAnd what about Windows Server?
- jsolson 10y agoSeems like there's a market for a tiny hypervisor.
- userbinator 10y agoOne example of Microsoft holding back support is the xHCI USB controller in sixth-generation Skylake and seventh-generation Kaby Lake: Windows 7 doesn't support that USB hardware, so installing the operating system from a USB stick using those chips is tricky. Intel provides xHCI drivers for Windows 7 once it's up and running. As far as I know, the xHCI spec is freely available, and so are the DDKs that let you write your own drivers (or perhaps port them from Linux), so I don't see anything stopping the enthusiast community from doing that, besides maybe (currently trivially circumventable, but who knows...) driver signing, and if my past predictions are any indication, that will likely happen. Ironically, there are already xHCI drivers for DOS: http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/ http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/
- eximius 10y agoAll I want is an operating system to game on that doesn't spy on me and advertise to me and force me to do things or disallow me to do what I want. I sure hope WINE has gotten better in the past couple years because I refuse to put up with this Windows 10 bullshit.
- immigrantsheep 10y agoWine and linux drivers will never be good enough to play games. You might as well install windows 7 in a vritual machine. And this whole thing about spying... you can install O&O ShutUp10 which helps a lot but on the other hand, if you're on the internet, chances are everything is spying on everything. Google is spying on you, facebook is spying on you. Unless you're only using TOR and chat clients with end to end encryption, if someone wants to spy on you, they will. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone Microsoft for this (hence the o&o comment) just that there are other players here as well. On the other hand, being a user of all three OSes I could complain about all three of them.
- eximius 10y agoI'll look into that. I minimize the usage of my windows machine usage to steam and gmail and a handful of gaming websites. Nothing out of the ordinary is spying on me. But I'm far more concerned by my OS spying on me than whatever details some JS can pick up. Hell, I have my ext4 fs mounted on windows. In Windows 10, that means it can index and beam that info back to the mothership.
- immigrantsheep 10y agoComing from a semi-security IT background I always assume there are forces out there who see everything (in the great scheme of internet things). It doesn't make it better any way. Just helps me cope with how everything is screwed up these days.
- charonn0 10y agoAll I'm reading is that my next upgrade will see me move to Linux full time.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- CommanderData 10y agoCortana will force herself inside your hardware whether your willing or unwilling. This is an interesting move and I wonder if these companies will back track under pressure from corporate. Is this just a matter of a few drivers built by AMD, Intel or Microsoft? I don't know.