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Vancouver recently enacted an anti foreign buyer tax that seems to have almost completely stopped the practice. Curious if we will start to see more and more of

Vancouver recently enacted an anti foreign buyer tax that seems to have almost completely stopped the practice. Curious if we will start to see more and more of this local protionism.

jewbacca 10y ago
> almost completely stopped the practice That is way overselling any evidence of what's happened. The tax was enacted less than a month ago. Volumes are way down right now, but the effect on prices are uncertain. I think the consensus is that people are in wait-and-see mode.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
antisthenes 10y ago
Unless every desirable city introduces this tax uniformly, doesn't this just shift the burden from Vancouver onto other cities?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- r00fus 10y ago
  This is why it should go viral. Wealthy individuals/ buying houses in droves to sit empty does not benefit anyone in the long run. What happens when the bubble pops?
  - jonknee 10y ago
    I think they should be allowed to buy the homes, but then face stiff property taxes (with a homestead exemption for actual residents). The property taxes on Billionaire's Row in NYC are often absurdly low: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont-pay-property-taxes-in-new-york/389886/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont...
    - tezza 10y ago
      They will pay pensioners to live there 'on paper' to meet your homestead requirement. The whole tax penalty is thwarted that way
      - notfromhere 10y ago
        At least they'll be occupied that way. Maybe they can even have whole families move in there, with some sort of agreement that they receive a monthly payment in exchange.
      - msh 10y ago
        If you realitet the oner to live there and pay property taxes is quite risky to use a straw man.
      - slavik81 10y ago
        Right now I'm paying rent like a sucker when I could be paid to live here instead? Sounds good to me.
    - bradleyjg 10y ago
      Happily the 421-a exemption program referenced in that article was allowed to expire. Not because of a consensus that it was a bad idea (which it was) but because of a pissing match between the governor and the mayor. We have to take our victories where we can get them; hopefully they'll continue fighting forever. We still have structural problems in the city property tax code -- for example condo and co-op buildings have to be taxed as if they were rental buildings, a complex calculation that generally undervalues them. But if and when those are fixed, I think full property taxes are would be enough. I don't see the need for a punitive rate on top of that. At least not in NYC, other cities may have a bigger problem with absentee owners.
  - keithpeter 10y ago
    What happens until the bubble pops I think is the question. To quote the OA... "In the evenings an eerie stillness settles on [the area]. That’s because these new owners are so rich in both money and global property that their London addresses frequently sit empty, functioning more as dust-sheeted deposit boxes rather than actual homes." This is not why we have cities. We have cities to allow interaction. Look where the artists, musicians and marginal people are going, for they are the new thing. Hint: it isn't London.
    - pjc50 10y ago
      Where is it today? I hear Liverpool is having a bit of a renaissance.
      - keithpeter 10y ago
        Jamaica Street, up as far as Camp and Furnace, but I hear that the end nearer town is being gentrified. And classical musicians and fine artists are heading to Berlin where it is still possible to rent a (effing) flat.
    - gwbas1c 10y ago
      The bubble will be forcefully burst when homeless people start squatting; or pranksters vandalize them.
      - keithpeter 10y ago
        Sure, the bubble bursting I have no problem with: rich people take a haircut and premises are repurposed. I walk through Digbeth in Birmingham most days: Early Victorian housing that is now car scrap yards and workshops. It all gets recycled.
        alimw 10y ago
        Anyone who's bought recently with a full mortgage will experience a burst bubble not as a haircut but as a plummet into negative equity. I suppose you could argue that they took on the risk, and other such risk-takers have made big profits. Personally I think it's crazy that individuals are expected to make these huge gambles. But people don't seem to take seriously my suggestion of nationalising land ownership...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    While I understand and agree with the sentiment of your comment... The idea of a tax virus sounds terrifying!
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  It does. Should Vancouver not act to protect its own citizens to the best of its ability, then?
  - mabbo 10y ago
    The same logic works for all Protectionist legislation. Yet free trade has lowered the costs of nearly every good in our lives.
    - billmalarky 10y ago
      Free trade maximizes GDP at the cost of further wealth inequality within the closed system of a nation. There's a tipping point coming fairly soon where voters will logically prefer the short term benefits of protectionism vs additional inequality. If capitalists want to continue down the path of free trade, they better be prepared to redistribute the additional wealth generated. That or find a way to disenfranchise a whole lot of pissed off citizens.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - neffy 10y ago
      No it hasn't really. Technological development has lowered the costs and availability of most things in our lives. If you look at the actual practices of governments and individuals over the last few centuries you won't find much truly free trade. You'll find all kinds of protectionism, exploits of positional control over markets, currency flows (I'm looking at you China), and the occasional super-power deciding to to have a war on ... well slavery was the one that mostly worked. But free trade? Well, most countries agree that they should be allowed to freely export whatever they want... imports are another matter of course.
- hx87 10y ago
  Other cities are welcome to more affordable housing and extra tax revenue by introducing the same tax. Win-win for everyone except wealthy foreign buyers, no?
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Yes. Assuming the tax actually works as expected (it's probably too soon to tell now), the burden will be shifted onto other cities that are too stupid or dysfunctional to enact the same tax. I don't see a problem here. The problem will correct itself eventually, with regular citydwellers all moving to cities smart enough to enact these laws, and abandoning cities like London that become completely unaffordable. Eventually the latter cities will collapse, and these wealthy foreigners' properties will be worthless, like all the $100 houses in Detroit.
- mabbo 10y ago
  My condo is Toronto is going up in value pretty quickly. I'm still 100% opposed to the Vancouver tax, but in theory it's making my assets increase in value.
darryl42 10y ago
More sales records are being set even after the new tax http://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/tax-shows-no-sign-of-slowing-luxury-condo-market-as-bosas-cardero-project-sets-new-high-price http://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/tax-shows-no-si...

Vancouver recently enacted an anti foreign buyer tax that seems to have almost completely stopped the practice. Curious if we will start to see more and more of this local protionism.

jewbacca 10y ago

> almost completely stopped the practice That is way overselling any evidence of what's happened. The tax was enacted less than a month ago. Volumes are way down right now, but the effect on prices are uncertain. I think the consensus is that people are in wait-and-see mode.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

antisthenes 10y ago

Unless every desirable city introduces this tax uniformly, doesn't this just shift the burden from Vancouver onto other cities?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
r00fus 10y ago
This is why it should go viral. Wealthy individuals/ buying houses in droves to sit empty does not benefit anyone in the long run. What happens when the bubble pops?
- jonknee 10y ago
  I think they should be allowed to buy the homes, but then face stiff property taxes (with a homestead exemption for actual residents). The property taxes on Billionaire's Row in NYC are often absurdly low: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont-pay-property-taxes-in-new-york/389886/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont...
  - tezza 10y ago
    They will pay pensioners to live there 'on paper' to meet your homestead requirement. The whole tax penalty is thwarted that way
    - notfromhere 10y ago
      At least they'll be occupied that way. Maybe they can even have whole families move in there, with some sort of agreement that they receive a monthly payment in exchange.
    - msh 10y ago
      If you realitet the oner to live there and pay property taxes is quite risky to use a straw man.
    - slavik81 10y ago
      Right now I'm paying rent like a sucker when I could be paid to live here instead? Sounds good to me.
  - bradleyjg 10y ago
    Happily the 421-a exemption program referenced in that article was allowed to expire. Not because of a consensus that it was a bad idea (which it was) but because of a pissing match between the governor and the mayor. We have to take our victories where we can get them; hopefully they'll continue fighting forever. We still have structural problems in the city property tax code -- for example condo and co-op buildings have to be taxed as if they were rental buildings, a complex calculation that generally undervalues them. But if and when those are fixed, I think full property taxes are would be enough. I don't see the need for a punitive rate on top of that. At least not in NYC, other cities may have a bigger problem with absentee owners.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  What happens until the bubble pops I think is the question. To quote the OA... "In the evenings an eerie stillness settles on [the area]. That’s because these new owners are so rich in both money and global property that their London addresses frequently sit empty, functioning more as dust-sheeted deposit boxes rather than actual homes." This is not why we have cities. We have cities to allow interaction. Look where the artists, musicians and marginal people are going, for they are the new thing. Hint: it isn't London.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Where is it today? I hear Liverpool is having a bit of a renaissance.
    - keithpeter 10y ago
      Jamaica Street, up as far as Camp and Furnace, but I hear that the end nearer town is being gentrified. And classical musicians and fine artists are heading to Berlin where it is still possible to rent a (effing) flat.
  - gwbas1c 10y ago
    The bubble will be forcefully burst when homeless people start squatting; or pranksters vandalize them.
    - keithpeter 10y ago
      Sure, the bubble bursting I have no problem with: rich people take a haircut and premises are repurposed. I walk through Digbeth in Birmingham most days: Early Victorian housing that is now car scrap yards and workshops. It all gets recycled.
      - alimw 10y ago
        Anyone who's bought recently with a full mortgage will experience a burst bubble not as a haircut but as a plummet into negative equity. I suppose you could argue that they took on the risk, and other such risk-takers have made big profits. Personally I think it's crazy that individuals are expected to make these huge gambles. But people don't seem to take seriously my suggestion of nationalising land ownership...
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  While I understand and agree with the sentiment of your comment... The idea of a tax virus sounds terrifying!
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
It does. Should Vancouver not act to protect its own citizens to the best of its ability, then?
- mabbo 10y ago
  The same logic works for all Protectionist legislation. Yet free trade has lowered the costs of nearly every good in our lives.
  - billmalarky 10y ago
    Free trade maximizes GDP at the cost of further wealth inequality within the closed system of a nation. There's a tipping point coming fairly soon where voters will logically prefer the short term benefits of protectionism vs additional inequality. If capitalists want to continue down the path of free trade, they better be prepared to redistribute the additional wealth generated. That or find a way to disenfranchise a whole lot of pissed off citizens.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - neffy 10y ago
    No it hasn't really. Technological development has lowered the costs and availability of most things in our lives. If you look at the actual practices of governments and individuals over the last few centuries you won't find much truly free trade. You'll find all kinds of protectionism, exploits of positional control over markets, currency flows (I'm looking at you China), and the occasional super-power deciding to to have a war on ... well slavery was the one that mostly worked. But free trade? Well, most countries agree that they should be allowed to freely export whatever they want... imports are another matter of course.
hx87 10y ago
Other cities are welcome to more affordable housing and extra tax revenue by introducing the same tax. Win-win for everyone except wealthy foreign buyers, no?
Grishnakh 10y ago
Yes. Assuming the tax actually works as expected (it's probably too soon to tell now), the burden will be shifted onto other cities that are too stupid or dysfunctional to enact the same tax. I don't see a problem here. The problem will correct itself eventually, with regular citydwellers all moving to cities smart enough to enact these laws, and abandoning cities like London that become completely unaffordable. Eventually the latter cities will collapse, and these wealthy foreigners' properties will be worthless, like all the $100 houses in Detroit.
mabbo 10y ago
My condo is Toronto is going up in value pretty quickly. I'm still 100% opposed to the Vancouver tax, but in theory it's making my assets increase in value.

darryl42 10y ago

More sales records are being set even after the new tax http://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/tax-shows-no-sign-of-slowing-luxury-condo-market-as-bosas-cardero-project-sets-new-high-price http://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/tax-shows-no-si...