6 ms·

> timeless What does that even mean in this context.

sedachv 10y ago
IMO the Xerox Star UI and NeXTSTEP/GNUstep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHFfc3btCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHFfc3btCI
- karma_vaccum123 10y ago
  You can run a variant of GNUStep today, yet no one does.
  - sedachv 10y ago
    Before switching to Lubuntu a few years ago, Window Maker was all I ran. LXDE is unobtrusive enough that I don't mind it.
- IncRnd 10y ago
  As a registered NS developer, I had a NS Turbo Color. What about NS do you find superior to OS X?
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Not OP but also a NS developer (custom built Pentium), and I must say like the menu system, digital librarian, workspace manager, and eof much better. A separate interface builder was much better, but that's more a developer tool thing. [edit: left side scroll bar also]
    - IncRnd 10y ago
      For sure I liked the separate IB/PB. Good call! It was faster to develop in NS than in anything else for me. At the time, I loved the digital librarian and menu system. After leaving and going back a few years later the WS seemed a little too dated for me. I use the context menus in BlackBox on my linux box. OS X seems to be my comfort zone now, which tends to color memory. Though I also found the IB/PB split much faster to work with. That's for sure. You've got me fired up. I'm installing 4.2 ent in virtualbox now, which will be the newest version I've used :) Thank you!
      - protomyth 10y ago
        I still have my 3.3 discs and the 4.x discs with the wall of documentation. I'm tempted to install it again, if for nothing else to get at some very old e-mail I sent. I think some of the "dated" is that it wasn't very high resolution, or put another way, it really didn't get to evolve into the high resolution / anti-aliased world we live in today. I've seen multiple attempts at redoing the icons in a modern setting and many of them look great. I particularly like the old folders. The menus suffer from the same problem, but more from a modern font choice scenario. For me, OS X stripped a lot of the NeXT goodness to appease Mac lovers. I'm just not a fan of a UI designed for a 9" screen that really should have a better menu system. Recently, I've seen some 3rd party software that simulates part of the old NeXTSTEP menu system. Sadly, it doesn't seem to do the tear-offs. I guess OS X is loads better than Windows, but it sure isn't my favorite. My two big "not working" projects are an agent oriented programing language and some form of modernized NeXTSTEP UI on OpenBSD. Sadly, more likely to do the former rather than the later.
        IncRnd 10y ago
        I installed it last night, making sure to get the patches in order to use VESA not just SVGA. That gave me color. NS sure is beautiful. My color slab wasn't this good looking, since the slab had 16 bits of color. The dated part for me is having to setup the OS for some workflows that have come about since NS days. Some things for scroll wheels not getting recognized out of the box and other polish. WS is great, though I'd change the Drag and Drop just a little. My memory of WS must have tarnished or faded some over the years, because it was and is really easy to work with. I'll likely install the developer cd this weekend. Thanks, again, for getting me to reinstall. On a side note, there are commercial projects that use GNUstep. I use Hopper, a disassembler, that uses GNUstep. From the developer training I still remember one statement in particular, "Even if NS isn't around in a few years, there will be a company that deeply understands what we do and they will do it." I guess that prophetically was OS X (at least in part).
        protomyth 10y ago
        What guide did you use to do the install?
  - sedachv 10y ago
    Less chrome, no shadows, no rounded corners. Scroll bars on the left side. Two button mouse (not three, but good enough).
- cwyers 10y ago
  That's not timeless, that's very very timed.
ashitlerferad 10y ago
Motif and CDE!
DashRattlesnake 10y ago
> What does that even mean in this context. IMHO: come up with a set of initial will-thought-out UI design choices that follow an internal logic, then evolve thoughtfully (and conservatively) in a way that respects those choices. That has the added bonus of not constantly invalidating people's investment in learning the desktop environment. I would expect a environment that follows that would "look" similar in 2005 and 2015, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.

IMO the Xerox Star UI and NeXTSTEP/GNUstep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHFfc3btCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHFfc3btCI

karma_vaccum123 10y ago
You can run a variant of GNUStep today, yet no one does.
- sedachv 10y ago
  Before switching to Lubuntu a few years ago, Window Maker was all I ran. LXDE is unobtrusive enough that I don't mind it.
IncRnd 10y ago
As a registered NS developer, I had a NS Turbo Color. What about NS do you find superior to OS X?
- protomyth 10y ago
  Not OP but also a NS developer (custom built Pentium), and I must say like the menu system, digital librarian, workspace manager, and eof much better. A separate interface builder was much better, but that's more a developer tool thing. [edit: left side scroll bar also]
  - IncRnd 10y ago
    For sure I liked the separate IB/PB. Good call! It was faster to develop in NS than in anything else for me. At the time, I loved the digital librarian and menu system. After leaving and going back a few years later the WS seemed a little too dated for me. I use the context menus in BlackBox on my linux box. OS X seems to be my comfort zone now, which tends to color memory. Though I also found the IB/PB split much faster to work with. That's for sure. You've got me fired up. I'm installing 4.2 ent in virtualbox now, which will be the newest version I've used :) Thank you!
    - protomyth 10y ago
      I still have my 3.3 discs and the 4.x discs with the wall of documentation. I'm tempted to install it again, if for nothing else to get at some very old e-mail I sent. I think some of the "dated" is that it wasn't very high resolution, or put another way, it really didn't get to evolve into the high resolution / anti-aliased world we live in today. I've seen multiple attempts at redoing the icons in a modern setting and many of them look great. I particularly like the old folders. The menus suffer from the same problem, but more from a modern font choice scenario. For me, OS X stripped a lot of the NeXT goodness to appease Mac lovers. I'm just not a fan of a UI designed for a 9" screen that really should have a better menu system. Recently, I've seen some 3rd party software that simulates part of the old NeXTSTEP menu system. Sadly, it doesn't seem to do the tear-offs. I guess OS X is loads better than Windows, but it sure isn't my favorite. My two big "not working" projects are an agent oriented programing language and some form of modernized NeXTSTEP UI on OpenBSD. Sadly, more likely to do the former rather than the later.
      - IncRnd 10y ago
        I installed it last night, making sure to get the patches in order to use VESA not just SVGA. That gave me color. NS sure is beautiful. My color slab wasn't this good looking, since the slab had 16 bits of color. The dated part for me is having to setup the OS for some workflows that have come about since NS days. Some things for scroll wheels not getting recognized out of the box and other polish. WS is great, though I'd change the Drag and Drop just a little. My memory of WS must have tarnished or faded some over the years, because it was and is really easy to work with. I'll likely install the developer cd this weekend. Thanks, again, for getting me to reinstall. On a side note, there are commercial projects that use GNUstep. I use Hopper, a disassembler, that uses GNUstep. From the developer training I still remember one statement in particular, "Even if NS isn't around in a few years, there will be a company that deeply understands what we do and they will do it." I guess that prophetically was OS X (at least in part).
        protomyth 10y ago
        What guide did you use to do the install?
- sedachv 10y ago
  Less chrome, no shadows, no rounded corners. Scroll bars on the left side. Two button mouse (not three, but good enough).
cwyers 10y ago
That's not timeless, that's very very timed.

ashitlerferad 10y ago

Motif and CDE!

DashRattlesnake 10y ago

> What does that even mean in this context. IMHO: come up with a set of initial will-thought-out UI design choices that follow an internal logic, then evolve thoughtfully (and conservatively) in a way that respects those choices. That has the added bonus of not constantly invalidating people's investment in learning the desktop environment. I would expect a environment that follows that would "look" similar in 2005 and 2015, and that wouldn't be a bad thing.