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I'm actually enjoying this conversation. That's why I've stuck around this long. To quote your last comment: "What they do instead is impose regulatory framewo

I'm actually enjoying this conversation. That's why I've stuck around this long. To quote your last comment: "What they do instead is impose regulatory frameworks that forbid companies that could run gig fiber networks from doing so unless they also serve markets where they would hemorrhage money." Who cares if they're hemorrhaging money? The Public Works Administration hemorrhaged money electrifying the South. The Post Office hemorrhages money delivering to far flung rural areas. Society however has made the judgement that these costs are worth it because they promote inclusiveness and equality. You are making the opposite judgement. That judgement is inherently political.

tptacek 10y ago
You don't even seem to be reading my comments anymore. You've invented a disagreement that we don't even have, so you could reintroduce politics. I'm not interested in having a political argument with you. Incidentally, you may be chuckling at the tenor of this conversation and where it's going, but as I've told you repeatedly, I am taking offense. I am not enjoying it, and I wish you'd stop.
- dtornabene 10y ago
  The article in question is a political article, and the solutions it posits are, by definition, political. Just because you don't feel that you're in any way having a political conversation does not necessarily make it so.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm not objecting to politics in general. I'm objecting to continually being asked to pass a political purity test in this particular branch of the discussion. I shouldn't have to explain to the other commenter why they're wrong about my politics. It was bogus and rude for them to invent a political straw man and attribute to me. I'm prickly about this, because, as you might know, this happens all the time here.
    - dtornabene 10y ago
      fwiw I do know that it happens all the time here. And, as someone whose politics runs very far to the left contra this forum (I'm a regular Jacobin reader), I can appreciate the annoyance. I did strike me as a bit dissonant, coming from you. Edit: also, not having to constantly battle either a) trolls or b) what I feel to be right wing libertarian myopia is one of the reasons I've commented so little here, so, I Get It. I've been a reader/lurker for something like 7 years now. early 2009, I believe.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        Some years ago, during a phase in which every other comment on this site seemed to be accusing me of being an NSA shill, I made a decision never to spell out my particular (boring, especially if you know where I live) political beliefs in response to people accusing me of having a particular political inclination. Doing so might simplify (dumb, lazy) arguments. But we shouldn't have to do that.
        dtornabene 10y ago
        I remember that. Not one of the brighter HN moments. I've done a small amount of activism, come from a family who have had run ins with the security state (had my own as well). It can be jarring to then turn around and have to defend a position that automatically grants you "shill" status to online nutjobs.
        borkborkbork 10y ago
        I was wrong to have brought up your personal political beliefs. I apologize for that. The arguments you are making, however, are dependent on the idea that markets are a necessary mechanism for the existence of the modern internet. You have the right to withhold your political beliefs from anyone in any context. You've gone astray by demanding that others de-politicize their language in a similar way.
        tptacek 10y ago
- borkborkbork 10y ago
  Welp, maybe you shouldn't have commented on a political article then? I'm really not trolling you here. I'm reading everything you're writing. I suspect others will notice that it is you who have been ignoring me. This is my biggest problem with people in the tech industry. You can't divorce the systems you build, or the tradeoffs made by companies and policymakers, from the underlying political ideologies that inform those decisions.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You might be surprised and deeply dissatisfied what others will notice.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

tptacek 10y ago

You don't even seem to be reading my comments anymore. You've invented a disagreement that we don't even have, so you could reintroduce politics. I'm not interested in having a political argument with you. Incidentally, you may be chuckling at the tenor of this conversation and where it's going, but as I've told you repeatedly, I am taking offense. I am not enjoying it, and I wish you'd stop.

dtornabene 10y ago
The article in question is a political article, and the solutions it posits are, by definition, political. Just because you don't feel that you're in any way having a political conversation does not necessarily make it so.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I'm not objecting to politics in general. I'm objecting to continually being asked to pass a political purity test in this particular branch of the discussion. I shouldn't have to explain to the other commenter why they're wrong about my politics. It was bogus and rude for them to invent a political straw man and attribute to me. I'm prickly about this, because, as you might know, this happens all the time here.
  - dtornabene 10y ago
    fwiw I do know that it happens all the time here. And, as someone whose politics runs very far to the left contra this forum (I'm a regular Jacobin reader), I can appreciate the annoyance. I did strike me as a bit dissonant, coming from you. Edit: also, not having to constantly battle either a) trolls or b) what I feel to be right wing libertarian myopia is one of the reasons I've commented so little here, so, I Get It. I've been a reader/lurker for something like 7 years now. early 2009, I believe.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Some years ago, during a phase in which every other comment on this site seemed to be accusing me of being an NSA shill, I made a decision never to spell out my particular (boring, especially if you know where I live) political beliefs in response to people accusing me of having a particular political inclination. Doing so might simplify (dumb, lazy) arguments. But we shouldn't have to do that.
      - dtornabene 10y ago
        I remember that. Not one of the brighter HN moments. I've done a small amount of activism, come from a family who have had run ins with the security state (had my own as well). It can be jarring to then turn around and have to defend a position that automatically grants you "shill" status to online nutjobs.
      - borkborkbork 10y ago
        I was wrong to have brought up your personal political beliefs. I apologize for that. The arguments you are making, however, are dependent on the idea that markets are a necessary mechanism for the existence of the modern internet. You have the right to withhold your political beliefs from anyone in any context. You've gone astray by demanding that others de-politicize their language in a similar way.
        tptacek 10y ago
borkborkbork 10y ago
Welp, maybe you shouldn't have commented on a political article then? I'm really not trolling you here. I'm reading everything you're writing. I suspect others will notice that it is you who have been ignoring me. This is my biggest problem with people in the tech industry. You can't divorce the systems you build, or the tradeoffs made by companies and policymakers, from the underlying political ideologies that inform those decisions.
- throwanem 10y ago
  You might be surprised and deeply dissatisfied what others will notice.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]