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Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

• camhenlin 10y ago
  I woke up one day and realized that if I had to spend another day commuting for nearly 2 hours a day to sit in an office that I hated, I would lose my mind. So I quit and found a remote job. There are lots of remote companies out there, find one
  • Calist0 10y ago
    Do you know if many remote companies offer part-time work?
• the-dude 10y ago
  I was already doing some side-project while employed and my contract was not renewed. I took a 30% cut on my unemployment benefits so I had no obligation to find work for 6 months. After unemployment benefits ended, I tried to find a bit of investment and also did a KS. Both failed, so I started to eat a retirement plan I still had. Then I applied for another 3.5 months employment benefits ( was my right ), and I simulated trying to find work. Then it got really ugly and did some parttime barista work. Sold some belongings. Then the product got traction: https://mecoffee.nl https://mecoffee.nl
• codegeek 10y ago
  My story. I worked my ass off for 10+ years, saved a little bit of extra cash after paying off most loans and then bought an online business that I was interested in. I tried doing both for 2 months in parallel. One day I woke up and said "F*k this. I am done. Gotta quit". I then went to my boss and gave him the notice. I did calculate my risks as the business was just bringing in enough to keep me floating (with 2 kids and a wife). However on Day 1, my income was down by almost 75% (ouch, wifey was not quite happy but she supported) Been 2 years since then and never been happier. It is tough, income is still less than I what I made in my cushy job but I will not give it up for that 9-5 bullshit. No more traffic to deal with (I hardly drive during rush hours now), no more commute (I work from where ever i want, mostly home office), I can take time off if I want or I could work on weekends if I want. The business runs 24-7 but I Don't have to. Of course, not everyone is in a similar situation but we all have a path if you really want to do it. Bottomline is that you have to really really want this. It is almost like an addiction to do your own thing and not work in a shitty (Even if highly paid) 9-5 job. My job was so easy barring the shit commute. I could go in, talk to users all day, run projects, write some code and at the end of the day, I will get a big fat paycheck. People loved me at my job. I loved them back. Easy as hell. But I didn't want that anymore. I was not up to it anymore. I wanted to quit my "cushy" job.
  • blisterpeanuts 10y ago
    Interesting story, codegeek. I'm curious as to what type of business you bought, and how you discovered it. A website of businesses for sale? Is it in your same field which I assume is coding?
    • codegeek 10y ago
      Yes, my field which is tech (duh!!). I am actually an addict when it comes to sites like flippa, feinternational etc. Both are mostly useless but every once in a while, you get a real gem there. I found one. It was funny because I was accidentally browsing flippa that day (labor day weekend and I had to stay home which was not the plan originally). I liked what the seller described and the way the seller described it. It seemed genuine and was a real product business. So I got up, spoke to my wife (you def. want that blessing :)) and then said, can we do this ? I was like "hell an MBA will cost me more than this and what is the worst that can happen?". I lose the money but I learn doing something real that I want to do. So I saw it as a win-win situation and went for it. In hindsight, it was the best decision of my life. Survivorship bias may be, but who cares.
      • hbhakhra 10y ago
        Do you have any more information on how you filtered business and what made the one bought stand out?
        • codegeek 10y ago
          No specific information but I have written a blog post on this topic and some general guidelines that I followed. Feel free to read the post (linked in my profile)
  • jaredandrews 10y ago
    Very cool! I quit my cushy 9-5 about a year ago and have been contracting off and on since then. It has been amazing and I realized I can never do the 9-5 thing again. I hope to start my own business at some point. The problem is... I haven't had a good idea yet... I have been thinking about buying an existing online business if I can't think of anything. When I look into it though I am completely in over my head. Do you have any recommended resources for learning about that sort of thing?
• marcoperaza 10y ago
  Not quite answering your question, but I quit my great tech job and decided to burn my savings and go into debt by going to law school. At least consider that maybe it's not the 9-5 that's the problem, but the line of work itself. Being good at something doesn't mean you're passionate or motivated for it. Depending on the kind of person you are, lack of passion/motivation can be an insurmountable obstacle to being the best you can be, to being fulfilled by your work.
  • vi1rus 10y ago
    I actually agree. I have come to realize that 9 to 5 is not horrible, the key is self-fulfillment and happiness. For most people they will be unhappy regardless of the state of finances or work they do. I realize that even if I have my own business it does not mean I won't have to deal with things I don't like. What attracts me though is the financial independence, having control of my future instead of someone else having control of it.
    • cylinder 10y ago
      For me, it's control. I cannot stand idiot managers making decisions that have such a significant impact on my life. Everything from major, broad issues down to where my desk is located and the temperature of the office and when I have to be in. You will still have to work everyday full-time, probably more, and have different stresses, but I cannot fork over my autonomy to others in exchange for a paycheck.
      • magic_beans 10y ago
        I am very similar. I recently started a cushy dev job at a big company, and the micro-management, bureaucracy, and office politics drove me into a pretty deep depression, to the point where I began to utterly dread coming into work. I quit after two months and now I'm taking two months off to work on personal projects... I haven't truly escaped 9-5, but I'm finally excited to wake up in the morning again.
• blisterpeanuts 10y ago
  I didn't escape my 9-to-5 job to start my own business (hoping to, eventually) but I did become full time work-from-home which is about 75% as good. I pretty much set my own hours, start work between 8am and 9am and end between 5pm and 6pm. Some days I really get nothing done -- right now we're in the midst of buying a house, and I must confess I'm spending lots of time communicating with the lender and broker, packing, etc. Other days, I work until midnight to get stuff done. It feels a bit like being self-employed, but of course you still take orders. But you also have the backing and resources of a larger organization. Kind of a transition to self-employment, you might say. I do have a side business of playing music for weddings and other occasions, but that's pocket change and will never turn into full time.
  • vi1rus 10y ago
    I can also work from home pretty much every day. I avoid it because I have 4 kids at home, and it's kind of a zoo.
    • blisterpeanuts 10y ago
      Yeah, we have kind of a strict rule here that during business hours I'm not to be disturbed. Luckily, my daughter's in school 8am-3pm now, and then she often is ferried around to after-school activities, so the house is pretty quiet during the school year. So you have something to look forward to, hopefully :)
• hkmurakami 10y ago
  Lived in parents house while working for a few years to save on rent. Kept expenses vey low. Saved enough for business school tuition. Hated business school and dropped out. Was left with a wad of cash. Started business since I'd learn more from starting a business than staying in school. Best decision of my career by far.
  • vi1rus 10y ago
    Is your business profitable? If not how much longer can you sustain yourself?
• kowdermeister 10y ago
  I'm just opting in the 9-5 :) Not everybody has what it takes to run a business. I'll do two things: - Build and MVP and try to find paying customers. Once the money is flowing in, I might take a venture again into the startup world. - Use a few hours / day to build the thing and start to look for a business co-founder.
  • blowski 10y ago
    Agreed - I actually _like_ 9-5. It's nice to have a break now and again, but I like daily routine of going to an office, seeing colleagues, etc.
    • jackfrodo 10y ago
      Exactly. And I read earlier on here that for lots of companies, for each year you've been at a company you can do a remote day a week. Sounds perfect to me.
• jeffwilder 10y ago
  I left my cushy job two months ago. For years I tried to build various products (SaaS) on the side to facilitate the move. I was never able to get enough traction mostly because I wasn't able to devote enough time. I realized that I'd be never really be free unless I took a leap. I'm launching my first official product in Sept. and have been consulting to pay the bills. The consulting has been good...perhaps a little too good as I feel myself getting pulled away from the product as I'm still busy after raising my rates a few times already.
  • codegeek 10y ago
    "unless I took a leap." Yes, exactly. Kudos to you for doing this. Taking the initial leap is the hardest part. Good luck!!
  • vi1rus 10y ago
    What kind of consulting do you do?
    • jeffwilder 10y ago
      Web development consulting. Basically what I did at my previous job but now I have to get my own clients. I never really liked the pitching part of my old job but find it easier now that I'm basically selling myself and believe in that "product" more than what I had to sell before. Making this part more of a company is my fallback if the product side of things doesn't work.
  • grahamburger 10y ago
    Wow that sounds familiar. I'm consulting and trying to launch a product in October, while realizing I've kind of stumbled in to my own little software consultancy. I just had to hire a guy to keep up with the consulting load, and I've raised my rates a few times.
    • jtrtoo 10y ago
      How's that (the hiring) going? Are you subcontracting?
• ef4 10y ago
  After college I spent six years working at a good tech company. In addition to a lot of great learning, it allowed me to build a big financial cushion. I continued living on a graduate-student-like budget with a software engineer salary, so I saved about half my after-tax income. This generates one year of runway for every year worked. But my savings also grew thanks to some solid investments, so after six years I had ten years of runway. Over the subsequent four years I spent down about 30% of my savings while working on startups of my own (I made some revenue, I took some small angel investment). Relationships and expertise that I built in the process allowed me to pivot into running a lucrative consultancy. Before somebody says "you can only do that if you're young and unattached", I will add that I got married before I finished school, and our first child was born the same year I quit my tech industry job.
  • pkd 10y ago
    That is highly impressive. I would like to be able to save 50% of my net income, but I have found that I have very little control over spending and end up saving only around 20%.
    • mbrock 10y ago
      What would happen if you just moved 50% of your monthly income to a savings account and convinced yourself that it's going to stay there because it's for savings?
    • bigato 10y ago
      That means that for each five months working, you build up reserves enough to last you one month without working. It's not a lot, but it's something. Now make some effort to push it to a 33% savings rate, and for each three months worked, you'll have one month of expenses saved. And so on. At some point, it becomes a game of cutting expenses and raising income. If you get to live on 20/25% of your income and invest the rest, in 5 to 6 years you should have enough invested to pay your expenses for the rest of your life, assuming an yearly average return of 4% over inflation. This formula was made popular by Jacob from Early Retirement Extreme blog/book/forum/wiki: http://earlyretirementextreme.com http://earlyretirementextreme.com
• swagv1 10y ago
  Who works 9-5 anymore? The factory jobs are all gone.
  • tommymachine 10y ago
    I actually just quit a factory job to start software dev. The conditions and pay were terrible at my factory gig so I started learning to code in my spare time. Probably few people on this forum would be connected with people who recently have worked in factories. But those jobs do exist, and man do they SUCK! Especially when the people in software aren't developing products for you because they have never met you, i.e. don't believe you exist. There are good things and bad things about the homogeneity of SV culture, and outside perspectives, especially from the working class, don't often make it past a seed round.
    • milesvp 10y ago
      It's always interesting to hear another person talk about this. I've seen an article or two talking about how under served the working class is in regards to software. Makes me wonder how much of it is economic, and how much of it is social.
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  • jdimov10 10y ago
    Just about everyone in IT. The (software) factories are thriving the world over and despite what StartUp people and various other revolutionists will tell you, hardly anyone is even trying to disrupt this. Because people (both employers and staff) are mostly happy with the status quo. You'll hear a lot of talk about reduced office hours, flexible office hours, working 4 days a week, "commuter revolution", etc, etc... those things are statistical outliers that haven't really affected the large picture. Leaving your job to build a business is probably the _least_ statistically significant factor in all of this. So yea, factories (and factory working hours) are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
  • 10y ago
• giltleaf 10y ago
  I essentially used the 4 hour workweek script and am somewhere in the middle of that timeline, setting up my business now. 1. Figured out how to get all of my work done super fast 2. Started taking days off and working remotely using my above efficiency skills to put more and more time into my side project while still meeting all of my deadlines and obligations 3. Negotiated a remote and part time contract that only has me in the office 3 days a week. 4. Grind. I'm still in the setup phase of my business (a hydroponics farm/green wall installations) but being able to devote entire days to getting going has been immensely helpful. I started working the new contract about a month and a half ago. It was hard staying focused at first and I was a little too happy - go - lucky with my newfound freedom (Overwatch). So, while I was getting everything done for my 9-5, I've been moving slowly on the farm. Things have been better these past two weeks and I'm excited to get cranking in a serious way. I should note that before I had even considered building a business or taking this step, I'd been doing research for the past 4 or so years that started my last semester in undergrad. I'd also done many small scale, non commercial projects for different clients in the evenings/weekends before I made the jump. Like another poster, to me, this is the equivalent to grad school. I could spend a bunch of money on an MBA and learn some things, or I could start this business, learn hands on, and potentially walk away with profit instead of debt.
  • jventura 10y ago
    >> 1. Figured out how to get all of my work done super fast I always assumed that, as developers, we couldn't afford to automate writing code (as Tim's proposition is originally to automate the income), and so you do your work faster. Can you comment how you do that, how did you buy your remote time from that, etc.?
    • giltleaf 10y ago
      I'm not a developer, I'm a researcher. However, a big take away from the book for me that I'd imagine would apply to developers as well was not answering emails or going to meetings. He get's into how to do this politely and gradually, and it's definitely saved me time. The gist of it is, generally, no matter how huffy the person at the other end is, what they're sending you is probably not an emergency. That being said, you can afford to batch your emails so you are only going through and responding to them once or twice a day as opposed to constantly losing your train of thought to reply to them or read them. This might not exactly apply to you, but reading 4hww got me to consciously think what sorts of things I might be able to cut. Actually taking the time to notice what those things are could help anybody I'd guess. I got my remote time from that because I've been working at the same org for 2 years and have kept track of my wins/successes. I've gotten a lot of those because I've learned to be more efficient using ideas like the ones above. Over those two years, I've also noticed that our org has a problem retaining mid level employees and so I was able to leverage that when talking about remote time as well. So I'm not automating my income, but I am saving time by cutting unnecessary tasks.
• dangravell 10y ago
  With the consent of my employer (another startup) I started in the mornings, evenings and weekends with a very supportive partner. The aforementioned employer then began to fail, and so I was extremely lucky to be able to devote more and more time to my business as the aforementioned startup started to ask people to work fewer hours. Once I hit a revenue target agreed with my wife, I jumped ship: http://www.elstensoftware.com/blog/2011/01/21/going-fulltime/ http://www.elstensoftware.com/blog/2011/01/21/going-fulltime... To lower the target required, I cut pretty much everything apart from the mortgage and taxes. In some ways I miss the constraint of working fewer hours - I think I had better focus then; these days I do make a few mistakes with where I spend my time.
• typetypetype 10y ago
  I did something like this early on in my working life. I got to the point where my side business had repeat customers and enough of a portfolio where I felt confident that I could bring on more customers. It wasn't a full jump, but the side business became the focus and I took on different side gigs to supplement income. I went back to a 9-5 after a few years, but during that time I did see consistent growth in the business.
• xori 10y ago
  You mean 9 to 6
  • Jasamba 10y ago
    I'm in France, and doing 9-7
    • blackfede 10y ago
      italy, IT sector, 9-13;14-18 minimum
      • borplk 10y ago
        what?
        • anotheryou 10y ago
          9 to 6, unpaid 1h break. Been there just after school (but mainly to be able to say I did stuff for BMW).
• eswat 10y ago
  Left my last full-time job in early 2014, jumping into freelancing with both my old employer and past colleagues-turned-founders as my first clients. The first year was insanely though - trying to find clients that would pay what I desired - and I went through severe bouts of depression when Canadian Winter hit. My close friends who knew about the situation told me to go back to employment, I wasn’t cut out for this. But I went through that trough of sorrow and hit many breaks in 2015 with clients that valued me enough to more than make up the losses I had the previous year. Fast-forward to today and I earn enough from consulting that I spend more time on personal growth and working on my own projects than I need to work with clients to sustain my living.
• kohanz 10y ago
  I haven't fully done it yet, but am on my way. About 2.5 years ago I left my 9-5 career (about 8 years into it) to become a contractor/consultant, basically continuing to do the same type of work, but for multiple clients, with an hourly rate. This was at the same time that our first child was born. It's probably the best decision I ever made. I'll make about 1.5x what I did as a 9-5er this year while I probably worked less hours overall. I work from home 80% of the time. No commute, so much less stress, I'm lucky to have great long-term clients (who I wouldn't have been able to acquire without my previous 9-5 time). Eventually I want to bootstrap a startup - that's phase 2. I've built up enough of a cushion, even though child #2 arrives in a month. I've got a side-project going on that will hopefully turn into a business. I'm still figuring out how to best transition, because right now the $ is good and difficult to voluntarily turn down.
• megalomanu 10y ago
  I work full-time on my website since 6 months, after two years of development and growth when I was an employee. At first, it was only a little side-project so I haven't done anything to prepare my exit to entrepreneurship. I've quit my job when my partner and I we have felt a real potential for our website. I guess it's less stressful in France than in other countries, because we have in France the possibility to terminate the employment like a resignation, and then receive comfortable unemployment benefits during two years. There is no need to save money, and no pressure at the beginning of the startup. Everyone has its own way to work on a side project. Personaly, I worked every mornings, before work. Why ? Because my brain was fresher, my spirit less crowded by external thoughts. I could go to work without frustration, with the satisfaction of having worked on my own website. And at evening, I could hang out with my girlfriend or friends without feeling guilty.
• paddi91 10y ago
  My 9-5 job got a bit boring after 5 years so I decided to work on an idea I already had in mind for a few years. With the help of my co-founder (which I met in the meantime) the business got serious and I noticed that I'm way to busy with the 9-5 job. So I got the opportunity to work 24h/week at a local startup which also shares our technology stack. I usually split the week in 3 days on the paid job and 3 days (w/ one day of every weekend) for our own startup. Now we're one year later, still having 2 jobs as the income is not sufficient enough to pay for life.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• marktangotango 10y ago
  Personlly, I have a family, mortgage, and full time job as a developer. I did an hour a day of 'car coding' with my laptop tethered to my cell phone, an hour here or there in the evenings and weekends. Took about 6 months to build an MVP and launch. Still working 9-5 though, and tweaking the product and message. I wrote up some details below. https://medium.com/@m.taylor/zero-to-mvp-thirty-minutes-at-a-time-d4661446e081 https://medium.com/@m.taylor/zero-to-mvp-thirty-minutes-at-a...
• malux85 10y ago
  It was just brute force. I worked every evening, every weekend, on the tube on the way to and from the office. During my lunch hours. My coworkers knew not to interrupt me during lunch, because I always took a sandwich to the same desk, put my headphones on, and worked. Have you seen that comic "You must burn", that's exactly it. It's painful, there's moments of crippling self doubt, there's moments when you'd rather be doing literally anything else, but you must burn through them. https://startupiceland.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/you-must-burn_1024x1024.jpg https://startupiceland.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/you-must-... I had several failures. I launched an iPad app that failed. I launched several webapps that failed. In total, 4 "product launches" that failed and crashed and burnt, and countless more mini-projects that never finished or caught traction. It took me years to get my first B2B client, but once I got it, I didn't have to work ever again, now I have 5 clients, and am concentrating on launching new products and growing and partnering.
  • vi1rus 10y ago
    Is this the article you are referencing? http://www.feld.com/archives/2011/10/be-on-fire.html http://www.feld.com/archives/2011/10/be-on-fire.html Cause that picture is now my new wallpaper... Also it sounds like you have a similar path to mine. Launch stuff, fail, launch again stop mid way when no traction, launch, fail. Mind if I ask what you are doing that having 5 clients is all you need to be self-sufficient?
    • malux85 10y ago
      Yes that's the article! I love that picture too. I am doing media monitoring, I collect vast amounts of data on social networks, p2p, rss, webscraping ... then built reporting tools on top of it - high level trend reporting, customer segmentation for acquisition and brand targeting, planogram computing based on collaborative filtering, an entire media and brand intelligence platform. I also do Forex trading with TensorFlow, but that's only making about 70-80k a year, which is probably a living wage, but not if you're in London and have an insatiable appetite for GPU's like me ;)
      • 10y ago
• odonnellryan 10y ago
  I started my own software consultancy: we mostly focus on web applications, and we've had awesome experiences helping many startups in the NYC area! Lots of times startups have a good codebase, but they are having hard problems with just a few parts of the product: they don't always have a lot of funding, but it's fun to make connections and help them succeed. Though, it isn't so much "escape from the 9 to 5" as it is "now you work all the time." Not that I always work more (some weeks are slow, others very busy) but I do find myself having to be available more.
  • dstpierre 10y ago
    > Though, it isn't so much "escape from the 9 to 5" as it is "now you work all the time." Hah, so true. Although I find working for my startup more rewarding than trading hours for money. My path is similar to yours, I quit my 9 to 5 job in 2007, started a software consultancy than moved to building my own SaaS in 2009. Since than, that's the only revenue for my family (2 daughters, wife, doing home school). The stress and lower money at time for sure, but like others said, would not trade this to return in enterprise job.
• rloc 10y ago
  I was employed by a big US tech company in France (8+ years). I left a few months ago to grow my own startup. I've been working on the side project for 3 years before that. It's a SaaS web + mobile app. I worked on this project in my spare time (nights and sometimes during weekends). It was solving a problem that I was dealing with personally and I bet I was not the only one. The great thing with a side project is that you have no pressure and you can code features fast at the beginning. It was still a lot of work though but you don't feel it when it's your baby. When it started to get traction (feedback from users is critical at this point) and some healthy revenue, I decided to take the plunge. France give you the opportunity to continue to earn something like 70% of your previous revenue (estimation, there are calculations rules) for 2 years in the case you create a new business. I believe I found the motivation because my daily job was project manager but my side project was more of a developer job. Coding your own product without all the pain that a PM needs to resolve was a breath of fresh air. Combining the two competencies was also an advantage for learning to be an entrepreneur (even though I was more of a newbie as a developer compared to the devs I was working with in my previous company). Now I'm enjoying it, I hired a few interns and joined an incubator in Paris.
  • tobz 10y ago
    Whoa whoa whoa, tell me more about the thing with France and collecting a percentage of your previous salary. How does all of that work? Who pays for it?
    • rloc 10y ago
      It's paid by the state while you look for another job (national employment agency). If your plan is to create a new company instead of looking for a new job you can get the aid as well. They'll usually leave you (almost) alone as long as you prove that you created a company and that you're not getting any salary of course. It's great and something that doesn't make the news so much. It could be viewed as a state funding program. The state will get back much more in taxes and employment when and if the startup takes off.
      • 10y ago
• csallen 10y ago
  I did remote contract front-end development for about 3 years. Working contracts gave me a TON of flexibility to work on my own projects on the side. I also tried to take high-paying contracts and save as much money as I could. When my last contract ended, I had enough money in the bank to survive for ~18 months without another paycheck, even while paying rent in SF. Currently, I'm about 9 months into that. I've worked on several projects since then, one of which (TaskforceApp.com) is making $500-$1500/mo. The other I just launched on HN about 3 weeks ago: http://www.IndieHackers.com http://www.IndieHackers.com. It's gotten almost 300k pageviews since launch, and I've lined up some awesome sponsors who combined are contributing about $1000/mo. My plan is to keep growing the site by adding interviews, writing more blog posts, and adding forums/AMAs. If you're interested in hearing lots of other stories similar to this (most of which are more impressive), I recommend checking out Indie Hackers. I publish average monthly revenue stats in addition to interviews with the founders behind all these companies.
  • codegeek 10y ago
    I have been watching indiehackers since you shared on HN. It looks really good and high quality stuff. Another bookmark for me as I obsess with the various products being shared and their stories. The revenue transparency is an icing on the cake :)
    • csallen 10y ago
      Sweet, I'd love to hear your feedback/ideas sometime! @csallen
  • infinite8s 10y ago
    IndieHackers looks really nice, although it would be useful to have the interviews dated to see how recent they are.
    • csallen 10y ago
      Good point, will add dates soon!
  • 10y ago
• marpstar 10y ago
  I'm in the process of getting ready to make the plunge. Right now doing 9-5 on top of part-time software consulting, mostly WordPress sites with trendy front-end stuff, but with occasional custom-backend and mobile app projects. I've partnered with a local design firm that outsources development and they provide me a steady stream of projects generate a majority of my side income). So far no marketing except for word-of-mouth advertising from happy clients. I'm on track to do over $50k this year, but I don't think I can scale this any further without quitting my day job. My plan is to score another $XX,XXX project in the near future, stock up on cash and health insurance for my family, and finally take the leap. My biggest concern is that we're dreaming of building a house in the next 3-5 years and how that'll affect my ability to secure a loan. We're planning on having the land paid off before we begin construction, but I still need to learn more. Anyone have experience here?
• adamcharnock 10y ago
  Put simply: Being in control of my own time, day rate, and outgoings. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial environment, so after university I took a full-time job for 12 months (as a junior dev) then went freelance. I started cheap and upped my rate by £50 for every new project I took. During the 10 years I've been freelancing I also came up with my quality of life ratio, which is: How long does it take me to earn a month's rent? This balances both increasing my day rate with reducing my outgoings. It currently takes me 4 hours to earn a month's rent. I currently work for around 3 months per year, which gives me cash to spare. I also live in a communal warehouse. I had to build my own bedroom (which now looks awesome), but rent + communal food + bills comes out at about 1/2 - 1/3 what most would pay. I've also spent a few years running my own startups during this time. None were what I would call successful, but neither did any afford me the quality of life that freelancing does. I loose around 50% - 75% of prospective work because I'm too expensive, but that is fine and something I account for. I also have a number of more junior developer friends I can field this work off to. With my free time (and funds) I'm currently working on setting up a community in rural Portugal.
  • orky56 10y ago
    Since you're only working 3 months per year & assuming those are consecutive, how much time/effort do you need to queue up another 3 months of work after being out of the game for 9 months? Having to keep your profile/reputation fresh and letting existing/new clients know seems nearly impossible.
    • adamcharnock 10y ago
      I tend to take on one significant project per year, i.e. on that looks good on the CV. Generally work comes along through word of mouth, but if I'm getting itchy for work I'll start mentioning it to old clients/colleagues etc. I generally also spend some time off working on my own open source projects too. Reading HN helps me stay up-to-date too :-)
      • orky56 10y ago
        Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you have a very solid reputation and network. Nice job!
• matell 10y ago
  I was working 9-5 for five years as web app developer which allowed me to create financial buffer to live for several years without work if needed. I live in a cheap country. At the end I actually took one year off, and during that time I learned to code mobile apps and then successfully joined Toptal and work as freelancer. And since I am in Toptal I receive also many freelance job offers from other sides, just because I mention I am their member in my linkedin profile. I was surprised that they have such a good reputation. Anyway, I credit my success at joining Toptal mostly to the amount of free time I had during the hiring process (which took cca 1 month), so that I was able to fully focus on it.
• throwaway2016a 10y ago
  I escaped my nine to five years ago... I'm now at a startup and I'm 6am to 10pm ;) Mostly a joke.
  • karmajunkie 10y ago
    I had much the same comment, but less joke :)
• tachibana 10y ago
  Diligent savings over many years combined with low-risk investments. The stable income it generates now covers all living expenses for my family. I'm still part of the 9-5 crowd by choice while I search for my next calling in life. However, the main job is now more of a training ground and networking center than a primary source of income.
  • shostack 10y ago
    Can you share what sort of investments drive the majority of your income?
    • tachibana 10y ago
      Mostly fixed income securities and fixed income-like assets (like real estate, asset-backed loans, etc.). $10,000 invested at 4% brings in a little more than $1/day. Yes, the market value of the securities and assets may fluctuate day-to-day, but the income doesn't. As long as the borrower is of sufficiently high quality, then there really isn't any concern about the principal getting paid back.
      • shostack 10y ago
        Thanks for sharing. Mind if I ask what your cost of living looks like? Seems like it would take a large amount of capital to get a livable income off conservative incoming-paying investments at 4%.
        • tachibana 10y ago
          My cost of living is about the same as the typical family with kids attending good public schools along the SF Bay Area peninsula, but the approach should be repeatable in most places. My expenses over the years has stabilized at less than 50% of take-home salary (not including bonuses, equity grants, etc.) for my main job, in line with a previous post of 30% of income. So the absolute worst case scenario for a 4% return is 25 years. In my particular case, I had saved all my bonuses (both cash and equity) and most of the income from the aforementioned portfolio. I was also fortunate to have held a consistent side job for most of my career.
• ryandrake 10y ago
  Almost all of these replies involve growing a side project at home while remaining employed. I was under the impression most employers (at least in tech) do not allow this. Aren't you worried that your former employer will come knocking when your successful, asserting ownership over what you built? Where do you find companies that are cool with this? I've asked about tolerance of side-projects during interviews and have always got very clear, unambiguous "Work on only our company's stuff or GTFO" responses. Also curious about how many of the "saved <double digit> percent of my salary for years" stories happened in the Bay Area with its impossible cost of living. And if so, did you do this with a family? How? I consider my lifestyle extremely frugal, yet I couldn't imagine saving enough capital to start a business in 10 or even 20 years.
  • pkd 10y ago
    I think a lot of people renegotiate that clause so that they continue contributing to open source etc. I think companies are open to it as long as you do not use company resources to build what you are building.
  • djsumdog 10y ago
    Employees don't have any control over what you write on your own time. I think some older IBM contracts claimed they did, but if you sign one of these today, you're an idiot (and they're not enforceable).
    • greggman 10y ago
      I don't think this is entirely true, at least in most states in the USA. It's called "duty of loyalty" and it basically means you can't compete with your employer. Whats competition is gray but I'm sure you can imagine examples of shades that are clearly competition, shades that are clearly not, and all kinds of shades in the middle.
  • pre 10y ago
    I've refused to sign employment contracts which push all "IP" into the employers ownership saying things like "You don't get to own my graphic-novel or my band's songs or whatever just coz you pay me to write some web-app" I've never had them refuse to amend that clause in the face of that. Maybe it's different outside the UK. If they did refuse to amend, I'd continue the job hunt basically. I probably don't wanna work for a company that inflexible anyway. Also, contracting works well for owning your own IP. Contractor clients appreciate you have other clients too and don't usually even try to demand exclusive ownership of the product of your mind.
• Orthanc 10y ago
  A viral video (https://youtu.be/rNu8XDBSn10 https://youtu.be/rNu8XDBSn10) that turned into a whole career.
  • vblord 10y ago
    So you make a living off of publishing on youtube? I was always fascinated by this model.
    • Orthanc 10y ago
      Yes: the ads you see on YouTube are split between the creator and YouTube. Now that I'm a larger channel there is patronage and sponsorships as well, but it all got started with building an archive of popular videos.
      • ionwake 10y ago
        Can I ask how many videos you made, until you started to make enough cash, for example to pay the rent? Thank you.
        • Orthanc 10y ago
          I don't remember the number of videos, but my goal was 200,000 subscribers before leaving my day job. Subscribers aren't views (and they mean less now than they did when I started) but that was my estimate on how big of a base I needed to be confident it would work. 200,000 subscribers wasn't paying me as much as I earned as a full-time teacher but I knew the lines would cross.
          • vblord 10y ago
            Just curious, how many videos do you upload? From what I am seeing, maybe 5 minute video 1 per month? How long do you spend on this in total (research, sponsors, video editing, etc...)? Again, this is amazing to me that people can make a living off of youtube.
• djsumdog 10y ago
  I'm on my way out. I had a break in a few years back and lost everything. So I sold what I had left, took my savings and went backpacking for a year: http://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ http://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ I had dreams of getting into grad school, but that didn't work out and I ran out of money ($20k NZD) so now I'm back in America working software. It's soul draining. I'm not an entrepreneur. I have no desire to start my own business. Right now I'm saving until my lease expires. Then I plan on selling everything and doing something crazy again. I might look for writing residencies. I have a film I'm self-funding a demo for in order to crowdfund the rest. I'm looking at fellowships. I'd like to get the film started while still employed and quit work once it's funded and I'm over 50% done with its development. If all else fails, I'll buy a car and live of my savings, driving around America for a year or so while perusing some of these things mentioned. The 2nd major option I'm thinking of is getting another Australian work visa and taking another dev job or finding a writing residency there. The thing is: I have no kids, family or debt. My parents came from poverty and my father spent ever dime on making sure his kids had a debt free college education. I feel like these things artificially limit others, but they shouldn't. If you're religious (I'm not), missionary work is something you can do with your family. I also have a close friend teaching English in Germany and just allows her college debt to grow (we'll have forgiveness eventually. Either that or she'll eventually get her German citizenship and renounce the American one).
• gk1 10y ago
  I was very interested in consulting after reading about it from Patrick McKenzie and others. I especially loved the idea of having a choice of when, how, on what, and with whom I work. When my 9-to-5 job became unbearable (long hours, bad management, high stress, etc), I finally decided to resign and give consulting a try. I didn't have a specific plan, and I spent the next 3 months figuring things out while living off my savings. My backup plan was to return to 9-to-5 if I ever depleted all my savings without getting any traction. Fortunately it never came to that (although it got very close). Three years later I'm earning a very comfortable living consulting and I get to work on super interesting projects with super interesting companies. I've written more about the experience here: http://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-leads/ http://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-le...
• sneilan 10y ago
  I happen to like my 9-5 job a lot. I have no complaints. I really actually enjoy working 9-.5
• franze 10y ago
  Well, I started my own business. Now it's 24/7.
  • bbcbasic 10y ago
    Biologically impossible
    • martin_a 10y ago
      You must be fun with to hang around.
      • bbcbasic 10y ago
        I put the fun in endofunctor
• hnjm0101 10y ago
  Curious why people here hate 9 - 5 so much. I can understand starting a business if you have an idea you're passionate about and you're confident you can make you more money than you can make working for someone else. But most software development jobs actually allow you to have a lot of autonomy (flexible hours, work remotely, etc), a place to socialize with people who are likely going to have a lot in common with you and good pay with a nice safety net. Venturing out on your own and starting your own business has none of these things.. at least in the beginning, you are likely going to work more, for less money, by yourself. I understand why the small subset of business owners start their business for the reason I mentioned above, but I get the impression a lot of people working 9 - 5 are just assuming the grass is greener on the other side...
  • FilterSweep 10y ago
    Well here's why...... The benefits you listed, "flexible hours, work remotely, etc" Are, indeed, nice, but they are actually far more rare than you'd expect. Many places still require 100% "facetime" despite being able to commit & deploy code and take calls remotely, and some that don't require "100%" still will hem and haw over days that you are not in the office. Not everyone is sitting in an (over)funded startup with foosball tables, a fridge full of beers, young & eclectic coworkers, and happy hours with the coworkers every other day - where as long as you complete your projects by/around deadline, you're happily well-employed. And most are not in an area that complains over a "dearth of tech talent" and have the liberty to hop from job to job without actively searching, taking the time to interview several rounds, and locking in the second job before leaving the first. Labor Supply and Labor Demand have upmost influence on these factors, and with thousands of intelligent people finishing coding bootcamps every day, Supply is far outpacing Demand. The other key (and probably the biggest) benefit you're missing is legitimately coding for yourself with your own. You want to develop a "Slither.IO" type game by yourself with PhoenixOnElixir as an un(der)employed coder? Go for it. Because most of us aren't getting jobs at Blizzard or Riot. You want to build a fitness app in a city with only financial/legal/logistic coding jobs? Go for it! It's an unparalleled learning experience.
    • hnjm0101 10y ago
• xchaotic 10y ago
  Rather than artificially avoid 9 to 5, I am now in a job where 9 to 5 makes a lot of sense (for worldwide 24/7 coverage) I clock out at 5ish and I don't worry about work until next day or after the weekend. No such thing with a business.
• adamzerner 10y ago
  I worked for about a year and a half after college and then quit to do my own thing (autodidacting -> startup). At each job I was frugal and saved over half the money I earned. I also accumulated money by working small jobs in high school and college, and some from my grandparents. It I'm frugal, the money I saved should last at least 5 years or so. While working my full time jobs I spent as much time as possible improving myself, rather than succumbing to Sucker Culture. The same applies to high school and college.
  • Bakary 10y ago
    What is Sucker Culture?
    • adamzerner 10y ago
      Sorry I was on my phone and couldn't link - http://www.daedtech.com/the-beggar-ceo-and-sucker-culture/ http://www.daedtech.com/the-beggar-ceo-and-sucker-culture/. In short it refers to letting others take advantage of you.
• garrickvanburen 10y ago
  For the first six years of my professional career I worked for a combination of small design firms, web dev firms, startups. Averaging a year at each. All, essentially, were client service companies. From that, I learned how to pursue, land, deliver, and re-land projects across a bunch of different industries. Then, I moved to a new city and found working out of my home office more enjoyable than being hired. Once I realized I could land projects & get paid w/o being an employee - I stopped interviewing for jobs and started pursuing project I found personally interesting.
• deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
• anotheryou 10y ago
  Ask HN: How did you try, but fail to escape 9 to 5? (to fight the survivors bias)
• k__ 10y ago
  Started working remote. Now people only look what I accomplished, not how long it took.
• jasonkester 10y ago
  I think the key is to have a Safety Net. If you're lucky, you get one for free at birth. If not, you need to build it yourself during the first several years of 9-5ing. Once you know for a fact that you can coast along for an entire year if things go south, life gets a lot better. You can start consulting and not have to sweat the occasional dry spell. You can build income generating products after work or during those blessed dry spells. You can do all that stuff remotely while dialing up your leisure time activity of choice to whatever level feels the most comfortable. Better still, with a bit o' Safety Net, you'll be able to demonstrate to yourself that you can quickly pick up contract and full-time gigs when you need them. And you can emit artifacts that demonstrate to prospective employers that they should grab on with both hands if you happen to signal availability at any point. That helps a lot towards being able to bootstrap a product business on the side. Eventually, after much trial and error you'll find something that sticks. I think for me it was something like Job Quittin' Side Project #6 that finally started bringing in enough profit to replace the day job. Finally, make sure you're having fun along the way. It's not supposed to be a grueling heads down slog for however long it takes before you finally "win". It's life. And it's most enjoyable if you actually take the time to enjoy it while it's happening. All the best! Let us know how it turns out.
• X41 10y ago
  by working from 10 to 6....
• emdeha 10y ago
  I just decided I wasn't happy at my 9 to 5 job. What followed was a deduction that unhappiness means there's an opportunity I'm missing. So I started observing and found what I wanted at the moment--I started working part-time at a small software organization doing systems integration. The transition was flawless--I didn't need to stay at my corporate job. Of course, such undertakings are a bit risky. After a few months I found my money starting to melt as I wasn't receiving stable income from the new place I enjoyed working in. Doing a bachelor's degree while teaching and working quite prevented me from seeing how this money meltdown would shortly lead to some uncanny situation of mine. So, with about 3 months delay I understood that I'm in another unhappy situation and I should start observing for the new opportunity I was missing. Here comes a time for some background. For about 3 years I was living with a close friend of mine who is involved with an organization called Camplight--a digital cooperative working in the web outsourcing business. Things were quite great in this company and it was a bunch of sustainable, playful and hard-working people. I wanted to join them since I heard about it, but the lack of experience prevented me from doing so. However, during the years I worked a 9-5 job and switched to doing systems integration, I got quite experienced. Also, I loved to talk with my flatmate about Camplight and the challenges around being a part of a cooperative. And it started to click that this was the opportunity I was looking for. And that's how I escaped a 9-5 job in about a year and am really happy about it. I'm doing quality software, communicating with valuable people and helping the cooperative grow.