3 ms·

Seems like other companies with far less money are able to do both.

adventured 10y ago
The issue primarily is that the only reason Apple set up such a large presence in Ireland, was for the advantageous tax arrangement. It's the same reason so many pharma companies have moved to Ireland, for tax haven purposes. Those pharma companies are typically owned by US capital, they do most of their research in the US, they gouge consumers in the US, they have most of their operations in the US, but they hide from taxes via Ireland. This ruling is likely to crush Ireland's economy by reversing the tax shelter flow.
- hga 10y ago
  they recover the cost of their drug development from consumers in the US Fixed it for you. End that, and you end new drug development (fortunately karma will be enforced on those advocating it, for they or some of their loved ones will almost certainly suffer and/or die from something a new drug would have treated, if we were still in the business of doing that). (If I was, ahem, the next president, I'd force other countries that "negotiate" prices barely above the cost of production and distribution to pay the portion of their fair share they can afford, and do nasty things to countries that in turn violate patents to get around such.)
  - run4yourlives2 10y ago
    >End that, and you end new drug development To be fair, most of the "new drug development" that is needed is not what is most profitable. I'm not sure if 30 versions of ED medicine really translate to a better social outcome for us all, really. Similarly, there hasn't been a lot of new development from Mylar on the epi-pen that connects it to its recent 67% price hike, has there? I'm not naive enough to think it immoral that drug companies investing in R&D should be fairly compensated, however being willfully ignorant of what is happening in Pharma R&D in the US doesn't really help matters. The simple reality is that taxpayers fund a good deal of pharmaceutical R&D, drug prices have little to no relationship to their actual cost, and these companies do a very good job of exploiting loopholes to pay as little tax back into the system as possible. There are a lot of issues there, but at the end of the day, the only reason drug prices are so high in the US is that consumers aren't protected from hikes in the same way they are by other countries that view affordable health care as a part of their mandate. I think you'd probably get a lot more benefit overall in reverting the US to a model similar to the rest of the world, rather than forcing the rest of the world to abandon their previous positions in Trump-like bluster. The US isn't as isolated as some of its citizens think it is.
    - hga 10y ago
      The simple reality is that taxpayers fund a good deal of pharmaceutical R&D And how much of the very most expensive clinical trials, and applications to the FDA? Not to mention marketing, so busy doctors actually know of their existence? Upfront drug discovery is very easy compared to that, as well illustrated by this XKCD cartoon: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/ drug prices have little to no relationship to their actual cost Which is Marketing 101. And also demonstrably not true for the particularly expensive ones to produce (I'm thinking in particular of the HIV antiviral with 3 chiral centers). And while Mylan has certainly been raping a population that depends on Epi-Pens for their lives (including my 2nd oldest nephew ... and speaking of family, it's good to be the daughter of a US Senator), anything liquid is inherently more expensive for a whole bunch of reasons. And as far as I can tell, there are exactly 4 different ED drugs approved by the FDA in 5 formulations, and what's with the misandry? and these companies do a very good job of exploiting loopholes to pay as little tax back into the system as possible. Which is endorsed by no less of a moral authority than the US Supreme Court, and makes them no different that any other well run industry.
      - EliRivers 10y ago
        "And while Mylan has certainly been raping a population that depends on Epi-Pens for their lives ... anything liquid is inherently more expensive for a whole bunch of reasons." It certainly is true that the cost of liquids did go up a lot recently, so what you say does make sense. I apologise for that; that was passive aggressive bullshit mixed with sarcasm, and I shouldn't do it. What I meant to say was that liquids being expensive for "a whole bunch of reasons" is completely irrelevant to recent price rises.
        hga 10y ago
        Apology accepted. I'd add that "and sterile and pure enough for IM injection or IV administration" drives the costs up even higher. I use a couple of nasal sprays to keep sinus infections at bay, and they're expensive enough without also having to be that sterile. There's in fact been a now fairly long running crisis in such drugs, most are generic so companies don't get very much for them, but that doesn't make the proper manufacturing any cheaper. Look at this current list: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/drugshortages/default.cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/drugshortages/default....
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

The issue primarily is that the only reason Apple set up such a large presence in Ireland, was for the advantageous tax arrangement. It's the same reason so many pharma companies have moved to Ireland, for tax haven purposes. Those pharma companies are typically owned by US capital, they do most of their research in the US, they gouge consumers in the US, they have most of their operations in the US, but they hide from taxes via Ireland. This ruling is likely to crush Ireland's economy by reversing the tax shelter flow.

hga 10y ago
they recover the cost of their drug development from consumers in the US Fixed it for you. End that, and you end new drug development (fortunately karma will be enforced on those advocating it, for they or some of their loved ones will almost certainly suffer and/or die from something a new drug would have treated, if we were still in the business of doing that). (If I was, ahem, the next president, I'd force other countries that "negotiate" prices barely above the cost of production and distribution to pay the portion of their fair share they can afford, and do nasty things to countries that in turn violate patents to get around such.)
- run4yourlives2 10y ago
  >End that, and you end new drug development To be fair, most of the "new drug development" that is needed is not what is most profitable. I'm not sure if 30 versions of ED medicine really translate to a better social outcome for us all, really. Similarly, there hasn't been a lot of new development from Mylar on the epi-pen that connects it to its recent 67% price hike, has there? I'm not naive enough to think it immoral that drug companies investing in R&D should be fairly compensated, however being willfully ignorant of what is happening in Pharma R&D in the US doesn't really help matters. The simple reality is that taxpayers fund a good deal of pharmaceutical R&D, drug prices have little to no relationship to their actual cost, and these companies do a very good job of exploiting loopholes to pay as little tax back into the system as possible. There are a lot of issues there, but at the end of the day, the only reason drug prices are so high in the US is that consumers aren't protected from hikes in the same way they are by other countries that view affordable health care as a part of their mandate. I think you'd probably get a lot more benefit overall in reverting the US to a model similar to the rest of the world, rather than forcing the rest of the world to abandon their previous positions in Trump-like bluster. The US isn't as isolated as some of its citizens think it is.
  - hga 10y ago
    The simple reality is that taxpayers fund a good deal of pharmaceutical R&D And how much of the very most expensive clinical trials, and applications to the FDA? Not to mention marketing, so busy doctors actually know of their existence? Upfront drug discovery is very easy compared to that, as well illustrated by this XKCD cartoon: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/ drug prices have little to no relationship to their actual cost Which is Marketing 101. And also demonstrably not true for the particularly expensive ones to produce (I'm thinking in particular of the HIV antiviral with 3 chiral centers). And while Mylan has certainly been raping a population that depends on Epi-Pens for their lives (including my 2nd oldest nephew ... and speaking of family, it's good to be the daughter of a US Senator), anything liquid is inherently more expensive for a whole bunch of reasons. And as far as I can tell, there are exactly 4 different ED drugs approved by the FDA in 5 formulations, and what's with the misandry? and these companies do a very good job of exploiting loopholes to pay as little tax back into the system as possible. Which is endorsed by no less of a moral authority than the US Supreme Court, and makes them no different that any other well run industry.
    - EliRivers 10y ago
      "And while Mylan has certainly been raping a population that depends on Epi-Pens for their lives ... anything liquid is inherently more expensive for a whole bunch of reasons." It certainly is true that the cost of liquids did go up a lot recently, so what you say does make sense. I apologise for that; that was passive aggressive bullshit mixed with sarcasm, and I shouldn't do it. What I meant to say was that liquids being expensive for "a whole bunch of reasons" is completely irrelevant to recent price rises.
      - hga 10y ago
        Apology accepted. I'd add that "and sterile and pure enough for IM injection or IV administration" drives the costs up even higher. I use a couple of nasal sprays to keep sinus infections at bay, and they're expensive enough without also having to be that sterile. There's in fact been a now fairly long running crisis in such drugs, most are generic so companies don't get very much for them, but that doesn't make the proper manufacturing any cheaper. Look at this current list: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/drugshortages/default.cfm http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/drugshortages/default....
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]