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I've had the opposite experience: Saying one cross word against open borders or multiculturalism will have you branded as a racist, Nazi, etc. The vast majorit

I've had the opposite experience: Saying one cross word against open borders or multiculturalism will have you branded as a racist, Nazi, etc. The vast majority of people I've met who challenge these "virtues" aren't frothing hate-mongerers, but their rhetoric naturally becomes more extreme when their questions are immediately dismissed with these ad hominem attacks.

bluecalm 10y ago
Interesting that you were downvoted for making a genuine observation about your environment which relevant to the topic. I agree with you by the way. I see much racism in public debate about immigration problems. It's mostly about culture and religion issues and those are very different than racism.
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  It's disappointing but unsurprising. Stifling people you disagree with in such a way serves to create the extremism the original comment alludes to, but it feels a lot better than having an open discussion.
- creshal 10y ago
  > Interesting that you were downvoted for making a genuine observation Equalling "migration" with "open borders" is dishonest and already spinning the discussion before it even starts. I don't blame people for pre-emptively downvoting that. But yes, dehumanization goes both ways. Branding everyone you disagree with as Nazi isn't helping anyone either.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  I didn't downvote, but the second sentence wasn't an observation, it was an excuse. The way I read the comment, it's saying that when people say things against open borders or multiculturalism, they are accused of being racists. Then they say worse, obviously racist things, but they're just saying them because they were called racists, not because they are racists (who froth.) Therefore, if people wouldn't accuse people of being racists for saying things against open borders and multiculturalism, people wouldn't say racist things.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    > Then they say worse, obviously racist things, but they're just saying them because they were called racists, not because they are racists Or, perhaps, because it is very easy to become angry when one feels oneself unjustly maligned, and anger often betrays one into saying things which are ill considered and do not accurately depict one's genuine opinions or beliefs. Of course, there is a contrary position which holds that such things more accurately characterize those who say them than do the things they say when calm. I can only surmise that people who adhere to this position have never themselves experienced anger.
    - pessimizer 10y ago
      I take a center position that people generally mean what they say, and that other people can't make you say racist things. I also judge people badly (let's be honest, as cowards) who choose to attack the weak when they get frustrated or angry.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        Well, I'm certainly not about to argue that it is other than easy to judge people, or that it does not often feel good to do so.
        pessimizer 10y ago
        Just today: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/paul-lepage-resign-racism/498020/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/paul-lep... Maine's Governor Insists the Problem Isn't His Racism—It's Being Called a Racist
        throwanem 10y ago
        This seems like a very extreme example. I had the impression we were talking more about personal conversations, rather than exceedingly foolish, probably inaccurate, and certainly impolitic public comments on the part of public figures. Perhaps I misgathered.

bluecalm 10y ago

Interesting that you were downvoted for making a genuine observation about your environment which relevant to the topic. I agree with you by the way. I see much racism in public debate about immigration problems. It's mostly about culture and religion issues and those are very different than racism.

cloakandswagger 10y ago
It's disappointing but unsurprising. Stifling people you disagree with in such a way serves to create the extremism the original comment alludes to, but it feels a lot better than having an open discussion.
creshal 10y ago
> Interesting that you were downvoted for making a genuine observation Equalling "migration" with "open borders" is dishonest and already spinning the discussion before it even starts. I don't blame people for pre-emptively downvoting that. But yes, dehumanization goes both ways. Branding everyone you disagree with as Nazi isn't helping anyone either.
pessimizer 10y ago
I didn't downvote, but the second sentence wasn't an observation, it was an excuse. The way I read the comment, it's saying that when people say things against open borders or multiculturalism, they are accused of being racists. Then they say worse, obviously racist things, but they're just saying them because they were called racists, not because they are racists (who froth.) Therefore, if people wouldn't accuse people of being racists for saying things against open borders and multiculturalism, people wouldn't say racist things.
- throwanem 10y ago
  > Then they say worse, obviously racist things, but they're just saying them because they were called racists, not because they are racists Or, perhaps, because it is very easy to become angry when one feels oneself unjustly maligned, and anger often betrays one into saying things which are ill considered and do not accurately depict one's genuine opinions or beliefs. Of course, there is a contrary position which holds that such things more accurately characterize those who say them than do the things they say when calm. I can only surmise that people who adhere to this position have never themselves experienced anger.
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    I take a center position that people generally mean what they say, and that other people can't make you say racist things. I also judge people badly (let's be honest, as cowards) who choose to attack the weak when they get frustrated or angry.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Well, I'm certainly not about to argue that it is other than easy to judge people, or that it does not often feel good to do so.
      - pessimizer 10y ago
        Just today: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/paul-lepage-resign-racism/498020/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/paul-lep... Maine's Governor Insists the Problem Isn't His Racism—It's Being Called a Racist
        throwanem 10y ago
        This seems like a very extreme example. I had the impression we were talking more about personal conversations, rather than exceedingly foolish, probably inaccurate, and certainly impolitic public comments on the part of public figures. Perhaps I misgathered.