7 ms·

The phonebook hypothesis seems most plausible to me (especially considering that WhatsApp is owned by facebook). All those apps gaining access to a phonebook is

The phonebook hypothesis seems most plausible to me (especially considering that WhatsApp is owned by facebook). All those apps gaining access to a phonebook is a privacy disaster.

nroets 10y ago
I recommend that we all add the office number of a health care professional we don't need to our phone book. It will muddy the water just a little bit.
- mrweasel 10y ago
  It would be better if Facebook didn't hoover up data not explicitly entered into their app or website. In fact I think that should be the basis of privacy laws everywhere: You can only use data that the user personally entered into your application or website. Data should only be available across your different "properties" it they are branded as being part of a single platform. It would be much more in tune with the average persons understanding of something like Facebook.
  - thr0waway1239 10y ago
    Your suggestion might actually lead to something very interesting. Once a day when someone logs into FB, they should be presented with a word problem asking if the data they have thus far submitted to Facebook can be used to mine such-and-such fact about them. If they cannot answer correctly, FB should not do said type of mining. As their understanding of the potential for mining info increases, FB is also allowed to add that type of mining. This would be a win-win. People would actually understand what is going on, and FB itself has something to fall back on when the day comes when people turn this into an inquest (more a question of when than if in my view). And I wish all the big tech companies would do something like that.
    - mrweasel 10y ago
      >People would actually understand what is going on I don't think that's in the interest of companies like Facebook or Google. If people understood how their data can be used, many would close their accounts immediately. Data mining companies, and their customers are best served by keeping the public in the dark as much as possible. Revealing how much they actually know about us would cause trouble, if nothing else then simply because it's creepy as hell to many of us. The funny thing is that while I think all this data mining is creepy, I also believe it's useless in most cases. The only thing I've seen work well over time is Amazons recommendation of books.
      - thr0waway1239 10y ago
        Its also not in my interest to reduce my net worth by paying taxes. But it happens promptly each year. Maybe its time we demanded this from the companies. Also, I would argue it is indirectly in the interest of said companies and their employees if they prefer that their legacy is to avoid being referred to in the same bracket as the Enrons and the Arthur Andersens of the world. The trouble is, they are also too big to fail now. The thing that petrifies me more than a thriving Facebook is a Facebook on the brink of collapse and which has nothing to lose.
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  > I recommend that we all add the office number of a health care professional we don't need to our phone book. Also the contacts of lots of recruiters.
  - firethief 10y ago
    The recruiters I've been in communication with seemed to use burner Google Voice accounts
ilitirit 10y ago
I absolutely detest Facebook for: 1. Sharing my mobile number via the Facebook app without my explicit consent or knowledge 2. Using my Whatsapp contact list to recommend people I might know And now, I've recently started getting all sorts of arbitrary notifications even though I've stated several times I don't want to be notified of anything. The only reason I still have a facebook account is so that I don't have to share stuff like my email address and phone number with people. But at this point it doesn't seem worth it any more.
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  > I absolutely detest Facebook ... https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674/ https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674/
thr0waway1239 10y ago
You would be surprised just how few people know Facebook owns WhatsApp. When I mention it to my non-tech friends, they are first surprised, and then nod their heads like its no big deal, and then a few weeks later exclaim utter surprise at some new privacy intrusion. Someone should start a project with the sole purpose of mining all kinds of personal data about FB employees from Facebook/Google and publish it as a Kaggle dataset for mining. Wonder how they would feel about that?
- throwanem 10y ago
  I'm not sure what you see that helping.
  - thr0waway1239 10y ago
    The main issue, which you and I both see, is the sheer asymmetry of the whole thing. We are in this weird situation where the individual, the typical cognitive miser who even on his/her best day cannot possibly take all the preventive actions, is up against tireless machines with perfect memory and ability to generate extraordinary pattern recognition working all day to mine just that little bit more information to then hand out to the advertisers. But I see your point, and certainly would like to see more constructive suggestions than mine.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      I see so many potential ways of aggregating this kind of information in massively privacy intrusive ways on a day to day basis. And it's terrifying how many of them are just stopped by my lack of willingness to sacrifice my morals over it. Because I know very well how easy it is for people to think "oh, well, but that one little thing isn't so bad, when faced with bills to pay, or a raging boss. Many of which really aren't all that bad in isolation. Except it doesn't take all that many "one little things" before you have a total privacy disaster.
      - throwanem 10y ago
yaur 10y ago
This is almost certainly the "phonebook" hypothesis. If Lisa has her phone number associated with her Facebook account and either Lisa or the client has the others phone number in their smart phones contacts and the Facebook app installed that relationship can pop up in people you may know. If there aren't good "people you may know" suggestions the ones you get can end up being "people who may be known to people you know". The reason I think this is because a therapist friend of mind had this exact problem and deleting her cell phone number from her Facebook profile made it stop. What Lisa (and anyone else with a professional responsibility to protect client privacy) need to do is to stop associating the phone number they give to clients with Facebook or other social media.
- chejazi 10y ago
  > What Lisa (and anyone else with a professional responsibility to protect client privacy) need to do is to stop associating the phone number they give to clients with Facebook or other social media. Understanding how Facebook connects different people might help prevent this from happening, but as Facebook's tech becomes more advanced/pervasive Facebook will need to provide an explicit feature to protect user privacy for situations like this. As it stands, the implications of sharing your phone number, location, etc are already far from explicit.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  That might help, but facebook is still fully capable of seeing that the clients have the same number in both of their phone books.
  - yaur 10y ago
    And at the point that they start using that its 100% a Facebook problem, but I don't believe that they are at this point.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      I see both methods of matching people to friends-of-friends as equally invasive, to be honest.

The phonebook hypothesis seems most plausible to me (especially considering that WhatsApp is owned by facebook). All those apps gaining access to a phonebook is a privacy disaster.

nroets 10y ago

I recommend that we all add the office number of a health care professional we don't need to our phone book. It will muddy the water just a little bit.

mrweasel 10y ago
It would be better if Facebook didn't hoover up data not explicitly entered into their app or website. In fact I think that should be the basis of privacy laws everywhere: You can only use data that the user personally entered into your application or website. Data should only be available across your different "properties" it they are branded as being part of a single platform. It would be much more in tune with the average persons understanding of something like Facebook.
- thr0waway1239 10y ago
  Your suggestion might actually lead to something very interesting. Once a day when someone logs into FB, they should be presented with a word problem asking if the data they have thus far submitted to Facebook can be used to mine such-and-such fact about them. If they cannot answer correctly, FB should not do said type of mining. As their understanding of the potential for mining info increases, FB is also allowed to add that type of mining. This would be a win-win. People would actually understand what is going on, and FB itself has something to fall back on when the day comes when people turn this into an inquest (more a question of when than if in my view). And I wish all the big tech companies would do something like that.
  - mrweasel 10y ago
    >People would actually understand what is going on I don't think that's in the interest of companies like Facebook or Google. If people understood how their data can be used, many would close their accounts immediately. Data mining companies, and their customers are best served by keeping the public in the dark as much as possible. Revealing how much they actually know about us would cause trouble, if nothing else then simply because it's creepy as hell to many of us. The funny thing is that while I think all this data mining is creepy, I also believe it's useless in most cases. The only thing I've seen work well over time is Amazons recommendation of books.
    - thr0waway1239 10y ago
      Its also not in my interest to reduce my net worth by paying taxes. But it happens promptly each year. Maybe its time we demanded this from the companies. Also, I would argue it is indirectly in the interest of said companies and their employees if they prefer that their legacy is to avoid being referred to in the same bracket as the Enrons and the Arthur Andersens of the world. The trouble is, they are also too big to fail now. The thing that petrifies me more than a thriving Facebook is a Facebook on the brink of collapse and which has nothing to lose.
0xmohit 10y ago
> I recommend that we all add the office number of a health care professional we don't need to our phone book. Also the contacts of lots of recruiters.
- firethief 10y ago
  The recruiters I've been in communication with seemed to use burner Google Voice accounts

ilitirit 10y ago

I absolutely detest Facebook for: 1. Sharing my mobile number via the Facebook app without my explicit consent or knowledge 2. Using my Whatsapp contact list to recommend people I might know And now, I've recently started getting all sorts of arbitrary notifications even though I've stated several times I don't want to be notified of anything. The only reason I still have a facebook account is so that I don't have to share stuff like my email address and phone number with people. But at this point it doesn't seem worth it any more.

0xmohit 10y ago
> I absolutely detest Facebook ... https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674/ https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674/

thr0waway1239 10y ago

You would be surprised just how few people know Facebook owns WhatsApp. When I mention it to my non-tech friends, they are first surprised, and then nod their heads like its no big deal, and then a few weeks later exclaim utter surprise at some new privacy intrusion. Someone should start a project with the sole purpose of mining all kinds of personal data about FB employees from Facebook/Google and publish it as a Kaggle dataset for mining. Wonder how they would feel about that?

throwanem 10y ago
I'm not sure what you see that helping.
- thr0waway1239 10y ago
  The main issue, which you and I both see, is the sheer asymmetry of the whole thing. We are in this weird situation where the individual, the typical cognitive miser who even on his/her best day cannot possibly take all the preventive actions, is up against tireless machines with perfect memory and ability to generate extraordinary pattern recognition working all day to mine just that little bit more information to then hand out to the advertisers. But I see your point, and certainly would like to see more constructive suggestions than mine.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    I see so many potential ways of aggregating this kind of information in massively privacy intrusive ways on a day to day basis. And it's terrifying how many of them are just stopped by my lack of willingness to sacrifice my morals over it. Because I know very well how easy it is for people to think "oh, well, but that one little thing isn't so bad, when faced with bills to pay, or a raging boss. Many of which really aren't all that bad in isolation. Except it doesn't take all that many "one little things" before you have a total privacy disaster.
    - throwanem 10y ago

yaur 10y ago

This is almost certainly the "phonebook" hypothesis. If Lisa has her phone number associated with her Facebook account and either Lisa or the client has the others phone number in their smart phones contacts and the Facebook app installed that relationship can pop up in people you may know. If there aren't good "people you may know" suggestions the ones you get can end up being "people who may be known to people you know". The reason I think this is because a therapist friend of mind had this exact problem and deleting her cell phone number from her Facebook profile made it stop. What Lisa (and anyone else with a professional responsibility to protect client privacy) need to do is to stop associating the phone number they give to clients with Facebook or other social media.

chejazi 10y ago
> What Lisa (and anyone else with a professional responsibility to protect client privacy) need to do is to stop associating the phone number they give to clients with Facebook or other social media. Understanding how Facebook connects different people might help prevent this from happening, but as Facebook's tech becomes more advanced/pervasive Facebook will need to provide an explicit feature to protect user privacy for situations like this. As it stands, the implications of sharing your phone number, location, etc are already far from explicit.
Dylan16807 10y ago
That might help, but facebook is still fully capable of seeing that the clients have the same number in both of their phone books.
- yaur 10y ago
  And at the point that they start using that its 100% a Facebook problem, but I don't believe that they are at this point.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    I see both methods of matching people to friends-of-friends as equally invasive, to be honest.