4 ms·

Just a French guy who's lived 10 years in the US here. Yeah, they don't want to send the arabic kids to prison, they want to send them back to where they come f

by GuiA 10y ago

Just a French guy who's lived 10 years in the US here. Yeah, they don't want to send the arabic kids to prison, they want to send them back to where they come from. Oh wait, they were born in France. Well, they want to send them somewhere, that's for sure. I believe we may have gotten drunk together after a HN Kansai meetup last year, but my memory of the night's hazy.

seszett 10y ago
> Just a French guy who's lived 10 years in the US here Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then. Just remember about 10% of citizens have been voting for FN for the past 30 years with little evolution one way or another (it has been getting a little more votes since the leader isn't the openly racist founder anymore, which is actually a good sign isn't it?). Also, judging someone on one of their parents is very bad form, would you also criticise people for voting for a candidate whose mother was a playmate? The real difference, the reason why they are getting better scores than they used to, is that most moderate people are stopping voting altogether because the moderate parties are disappointing everyone is every way. 10% of citizens is too little IMO to generalise as "the French", especially if you're not even living in France.
- GuiA 10y ago
  > Also, judging someone on one of their parents is very bad form Come on, she took over her dad's party very happily, you know very well that this argument doesn't apply here. As far as popularity goes, we'll see what happens next year. It seems that in your eagerness to comment, you missed on the fact that my original post never said that all French people supported FN - just that the French population includes a non trivial subset who do. > Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then. I'm glad there are people on this forum who are the best person to talk about anything!
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
>Yeah, they don't want to send the arabic kids to prison, they want to send them back to where they come from. Oh wait, they were born in France. // That makes them French, not Arabic then. The problem is somewhere in that distinction I imagine. That the French wouldn't be so bothered if people came to France to be French and adopt the local manners and attitudes; instead people seemingly are coming to the liberal and liberated countries with a distant goal of making them as backward and oppressive as the countries they left/fled.
- GuiA 10y ago
  > That makes them French, not Arabic then. The problem is somewhere in that distinction I imagine. Yes, precisely. To recap very roughly: France brought in a lot of cheap labor from North Africa (a lot of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria) to rebuild and develop at low cost after World War 2. These immigrants were housed together, at the periphery of large cities (what are now known as "banlieues"). These neighborhoods still exist, and a lot of the children and grandchildren of these immigrants still live there. These areas are typically poorer than the cities they're next to, have poor education, higher crime rates, etc. Of course, they're French citizens, but they don't feel particularly French because the rest of French society tends to look down on them and segregate them. And they might speak a bit of Arabic at home (or not), but they don't really feel Arabic because, well, they've spent their whole life in France, and even if they go to Tunisia/Morocco/Algeria/etc. a few weeks in the summer to visit extended family, people there don't see them as belonging there anymore. It's a thorny situation.
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    You are not telling the whole story though. Immigrant workers in the first place were not supposed to stay forever but the whole situation changed when Mitterand introduced the Regroupement Familial to make it OK for their families to come and live in France. That accelerated the movement of people and that certainly did not help for them to integrate.
    - GuiA 10y ago
      Yup, that's a good thing to point out. Certainly not the smartest move.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > That the French wouldn't be so bothered if people came to France to be French and adopt the local manners and attitudes; Maybe the non-assimilators wouldn't come to France if the French had not gone to North Africa and convinced them that France is awesome[1] in the first place. 1. Majority of France's Muslim population comes from it's ex-colonies.

by GuiA 10y ago

seszett 10y ago

> Just a French guy who's lived 10 years in the US here Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then. Just remember about 10% of citizens have been voting for FN for the past 30 years with little evolution one way or another (it has been getting a little more votes since the leader isn't the openly racist founder anymore, which is actually a good sign isn't it?). Also, judging someone on one of their parents is very bad form, would you also criticise people for voting for a candidate whose mother was a playmate? The real difference, the reason why they are getting better scores than they used to, is that most moderate people are stopping voting altogether because the moderate parties are disappointing everyone is every way. 10% of citizens is too little IMO to generalise as "the French", especially if you're not even living in France.

GuiA 10y ago
> Also, judging someone on one of their parents is very bad form Come on, she took over her dad's party very happily, you know very well that this argument doesn't apply here. As far as popularity goes, we'll see what happens next year. It seems that in your eagerness to comment, you missed on the fact that my original post never said that all French people supported FN - just that the French population includes a non trivial subset who do. > Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then. I'm glad there are people on this forum who are the best person to talk about anything!

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

>Yeah, they don't want to send the arabic kids to prison, they want to send them back to where they come from. Oh wait, they were born in France. // That makes them French, not Arabic then. The problem is somewhere in that distinction I imagine. That the French wouldn't be so bothered if people came to France to be French and adopt the local manners and attitudes; instead people seemingly are coming to the liberal and liberated countries with a distant goal of making them as backward and oppressive as the countries they left/fled.

GuiA 10y ago
> That makes them French, not Arabic then. The problem is somewhere in that distinction I imagine. Yes, precisely. To recap very roughly: France brought in a lot of cheap labor from North Africa (a lot of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria) to rebuild and develop at low cost after World War 2. These immigrants were housed together, at the periphery of large cities (what are now known as "banlieues"). These neighborhoods still exist, and a lot of the children and grandchildren of these immigrants still live there. These areas are typically poorer than the cities they're next to, have poor education, higher crime rates, etc. Of course, they're French citizens, but they don't feel particularly French because the rest of French society tends to look down on them and segregate them. And they might speak a bit of Arabic at home (or not), but they don't really feel Arabic because, well, they've spent their whole life in France, and even if they go to Tunisia/Morocco/Algeria/etc. a few weeks in the summer to visit extended family, people there don't see them as belonging there anymore. It's a thorny situation.
- ekianjo 10y ago
  You are not telling the whole story though. Immigrant workers in the first place were not supposed to stay forever but the whole situation changed when Mitterand introduced the Regroupement Familial to make it OK for their families to come and live in France. That accelerated the movement of people and that certainly did not help for them to integrate.
  - GuiA 10y ago
    Yup, that's a good thing to point out. Certainly not the smartest move.
sangnoir 10y ago
> That the French wouldn't be so bothered if people came to France to be French and adopt the local manners and attitudes; Maybe the non-assimilators wouldn't come to France if the French had not gone to North Africa and convinced them that France is awesome[1] in the first place. 1. Majority of France's Muslim population comes from it's ex-colonies.